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oil up 35%, pellets up at least 40%, still good to invest in pellet?

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by lmei007, Jun 16, 2008.

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  1. kilarney

    kilarney New Member

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    No offense, but you're part of the problem. The 10 tons in your basement means that at least one other person won't be able to get a sufficient supply for this winter. I'm not faulting you, I'm just pointing out why I believe that the current "shortage" is due more to hoarding than anything else. Everyone wants at least an entire winter's worth right now, whereas, under normal circumstances, many would have spread their purchases out over the course of the year.

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  2. richg

    richg Minister of Fire

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    Pellets continue to be a fantastic decision for one reason alone: American heating oil comes from venezuela, home of narcotraficante lunatic tyrant hugo chavez. pellets are renewable, are greenhouse neutral and lessen our dependence on opec oil. Do you need another reason to justify purchase of a stove?
  3. richg

    richg Minister of Fire

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    Sorry, your post is way off base. The man lives in Maine, whose brutal winters can easily require 8-10 tons of fuel. There are scant few gas lines in Maine, where pellets and wood stoves have been heating houses for years. The problem people are the "oh my god my oil bill is going to be so high let's buy a pellet stove and save money" types who wait until November to buy pellets, then complain that there are none. Stocking up on pellets in summer months is as old as the hills and is a prudent move.
  4. mkmh

    mkmh New Member

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    I don't think that is a very good benchmark.
    That company carries several varieties of pellets from several different manufacturers so I doubt this is an apples-apples comparison.
    They had a "blow-out" sale back in March and they were offering some pretty low prices, but apparently that was because they got a shipment from a company in Canada that was clearing out its supply.

    I haven't bumped into anyone yet who paid 40% more for their supply this year than last year. Most savvy pellet stove owners will see that pelletsales.com price and move on to the next place. I agree with the poster who was speculating that they screwed something up with their business model.
  5. ugenetoo

    ugenetoo New Member

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    good point and well said.
    i guess thats why my teeth grind when i hear the oil burner come on.
  6. no1psycho

    no1psycho New Member

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    Figured I'd chime in with my two cents. I'm one of those that just ordered a stove 2 weeks ago and looking at, hopefully, getting mine in October. Wish I would have done it a lot sooner, but hey hindsight is 20/20 as they say. The biggest reason I am doing it is that I would much rather spend my money in the U.S. instead of sending it off who knows where for oil. I am hoping that a bunch of people jump on the bandwagon of pellet stoves and we as a group can make the oil companies/suppliers feel some kind of pain comparable to the pain we have all been going through. I have a 100-year old house in Eastern Maine and go through about 1000 gallons of heating oil a season. I have started tearing out the walls and insulating, but, as with many of us with children there just doesn't seem to be enough time to get everything done that needs to be done. I had a budget plan through the local oil company where my usage is spread out over 11 months of the year. Last year my monthly payment, remember just to heat my house, was $260/month. That's more than my wifes car payment. Well, this year my payment would have gone to $419 a month. I have a pretty good job, considering the area, and my annual raise doesn't even come close to touching that. So, I decided that I needed to do something. I don't know if this is the right decision, but in my opinion it is a whole lot better than doing nothing at all. At least now I will have a couple of options to heat my home, which is kind of important in my book. Only time will tell if any of us has made the right decision, but I think if we all are able to take some money out of Sheik Ahmud Sayeed pocket, sorry if I offend anyone, then it is a good start. Last week I also ordered 3 tons of Corinth Wood Pellets for $191.18/ton. I was in Sam's Club and saw a bunch of pellets priced at just $4.09/bag which isn't too shabby either. I'm sure a bunch of people will jump in saying that the Sam's pellets are junk but this is a big box store and they haven't raised their prices as of yet. Sorry for babbling on but I am a very opinionated person and have some very strong views, that I won't get into here, about what is going on around the country. But anyway, please jump in and give me your thoughts.
  7. gw2kpro

    gw2kpro New Member

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    No offense taken. I don't wait until I'm out of gas in my car to buy gas and hope there's a gas station in the next couple of blocks, I know there are probably people that do, though, and then require a ride to pick up gas. I didn't buy heating oil 5 gallons at a time either, although I know people that do.

    Truth be told, if someone has chosen to invest thousands of dollars in a pellet stove and then goes into the heating season without securing their supply, it would be extremely foolish. Pellets are and have been extremely plentiful for the last 3-4 months, which is enough time for any person to get their supply. I'm not in the mood to choose between $5 heating oil and $400/ton pellets this fall, but many people will have to do so because they didn't plan ahead. If I were betting, I'd bet that prices will rise throughout the summer, peak around early November around the $400 level (I think most stove owners will not pay more than that amount), and gradually slide back to around the $250 level in most places come Feb, in an exact reflection of this year's demand.
  8. sinnian

    sinnian Minister of Fire

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    I agree with the greenhouse neutral. HOWEVER, if it were not for Chavez many many many people from low or fixed income the last few years would have froze to death in New England. Fault him for his political and ruling actions, but when it comes to cheap or free Venezuela home heating oil, I say ~ "Thank you!" ~ that is more then OUR government has done for OUR citizens.
  9. kilarney

    kilarney New Member

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    I live in northern Vermont, and I don't need anywhere close to 10 tons of pellets. I would be shocked if this guy needs all 10 tons for this winter. I could be wrong, but the odds are much more likely that I'm correct. Ironically, the only gas line near me is a major line that delivers gas to Maine.

    Like I said, I'm not faulting him. However, I feel that the shortage of pellets this year is a result of hoarding and new purchasers of stoves. I'll be very interested to see how the situation is in February. If hoarding is a significant factor, then pellets will be readily available. We shall see.

    But if you assume that this person needs 10 tons for one winter, you're the one who is statistically much more likely to be "way off base." I'm content to follow statistics rather than emotion. As such, my comment was much more reasonable than your accusation against me.
  10. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    If you think cheap oil from Chavez (which he steals from his own people, the real owners of the oil/natural resources) is a gift of charity, he has succeeded in fooling one, I hope no others. His is trying to cover his bad name/acts with money he got from here in the first place, we're his biggest customer (I believe), and I mean at $140 a barrel - the going rate. Any notion that Chavez or any other dictator, or democracy for that matter, is doing more for the US needy is absurd. We're the generous people and set the target rate for giving to people in need at home and around the world. Don't look for Chavez to show up with aid for those suffering with flooding in the midwest, or Germany, or Japan, or... our government, we the people, take care of ourselves, not foreign despots. The answer is drill off shore, in the arctic wherever we have "property rights", more nuclear energy, more solar, more wind, more hydro, not more generosity form designing foreigners.
  11. Turbozcs2003

    Turbozcs2003 New Member

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    So your saying a man whole nationalized their oil industry and stole it from investors and keeps his people in poverty is a modern day Robin Hood. I just No to Joe For Oil. I serously doubt his miniscule amount of oil so graciously donated, kept anyone from freezing, there were many other options.
  12. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    The Chavez part is silly, IMHO, but if it floats your boats......

    So it is ok to fuel the car with Citgo? But not the house?
    Do you know who owns the pellet mill? and the land the timber comes from? Last time I looked, just about anyone anywhere could own corporations. Is the company that makes the multi-million dollar pellet mills owned by "good" Americans?

    Even if you knew some of this, what is to stop the Pellet mill or timber land to be sold to the highest bidder (usually in the middle east these days) if it succeeds or not?

    Yes, I am cynical, but the problem we have is the USA is that (as a whole) we use too much of just about everything. Oil is just the one we are paying attention to right now. If any reasonable % of the population burned pellets, the "shortage" now would look like a cakewalk.

    I would say that most people need a LOT of other reason to justify a 3K to 5K purchase....but maybe some do not. People who make buying decisions certainly don't have to explain them to us here....or to anyone else.....well, maybe the banker once in a while. But usually we are dealing with disposable income, and a pellet stove certainly beats a boat or an ATV or a family vacation in terms of energy savings!
  13. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Obviously, some of our readers need to do a bit of reading as to why Chavez is popular (relatively) in Venezuela! The same readers seem to have had no complaint when we were stealing oil from them (which they stole from their people) at $20 a barrel.....but now, by EVERY measure (economically) more of the oil revenues are going to the citizens of their country. Of course, we don't like that because folks might get some ideas......

    Compared to the Putins of the world and the Saudis, this guy is certainly benign. Yet we are not yapping at Putin...why? Because he has stole the oil in Russia even from the corporations and placed it 100% under government control. Now that's something the USA likes to see!

    (see, I told you I'm cynical).....

    Time after time, our foreign policy has been "for the corporations and dictators" while supporting "banana republics"....this is not an opinion, this is 100% fact and history. To think, all of a sudden, the GW and his minions support "regular" people is to think wrongly.

    If you think I am even slightly wrong, I have a few words for you "Communist China".......our favored trading partner. After you digest those words, watch the online Video of GW dancing with the Saudis (the 9/11 hijacking country) and then watch him say that Putin is a good man...according to Bush, he (Bush) looked in Putins soul and liked what he saw ! Scary.
  14. lmei007

    lmei007 Member

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    I think solar energy is another thing you may need to think about. I bought my house one year ago and there is an very old (about 20 yrs) solar panel hot water system. We saved a lots on hot water electric bill. Now I am thinking solar heating system.
  15. kilarney

    kilarney New Member

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    For all the talk of solar, I seriously doubt that it's at all practical here in northern Vermont. Burlington has 206 cloudy days per year. And in the winter, even if the sun is shining, it's pretty low on the horizon.

    And of course wind is very controversial here. It certainly isn't economically superior to coal. Of course it is environmentally, but that doesn't help your wallet.

    Which is why I'm a huge fan of nuclear power. Reasonable minds can differ, but I would gladly support the construction of more nuclear plants. Surely the technology has improved from the 40 year old technology that current plants are using.
  16. MainePellethead

    MainePellethead Minister of Fire

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    Prices arent up 40% here lol.....prices at the end of season this past winter were about 250 here....and just saw some advertised(at one of the more expensive places) for 280.
  17. lmei007

    lmei007 Member

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    where can I found those statistic data about how many days are sunny and how many days are cloudy? I am in MA Lexington.
  18. Shortstuff

    Shortstuff Feeling the Heat

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    Being one of the "new kids on the block", perhaps an apology is in order because I guess we are a part of the "problem" too.

    I retired from the Marine Corps back in '94 and a year later we, my wife - son - daughter and I, returned home to MA to roost. We purchased a "fixer-upper" which originially was a summer cottage built in 1960 and have spent the last 12-1/2 years making it our home, one we intend to retire in. Every room stripped to the outside sheathing and rebuilt with 2x6 exterior walls, top-shelf windows and doors, and with attention to detail that would put some contractors to shame. All new heating system, new electric, new plumbing, central air, vac, intercom - all the things we dreamed of while serving our country. We did 98+% of the work ourselves, with our own two hands and at times with assistance from friends and family as needed to lift those things in place we couldn't do ourselves. Yet still, we've got a a few more years to get to a point we would consider "finished" and enter that retired home-maintenance state (and peace) of mind.

    Using upwards of 1,000 gallons of fuel oil per year, until November we are locked-in at $3.229 per gallon - that's $3,229.00 a year. Current price is $4.699 and come lock-in time, it could well be over $5.00 per gallon and the math does not look good. For the past couple of years I have been researching several alternative energy sources such as solar, wind, geo-thermal and yes, pellet stoves. We just wrote two checks, one for a new Castile with all the accessories for $3,200.00 (sitting in our den) and another for $800.00 for 3-tons of Barefoot pellets to be delivered in September. I'll be installing it in our living room and will be able to shut down one zone of oil heat and use the pellet stove for at least 40% of our heated floor space. Our oil furnace also provides 30 gallons of hot water, but it feeds a 50-gallon electric. With the turn of a few valves, I'll be turning the hot-water zone off and go with the electric water heater. I'm estimating that we will cut our fuel oil useage in half. If all works as planned, I'll be purchasing another stove next year and can shut the boiler down for good as we continue to work on our home.

    There are those who say that we were foolish and could have used that $4,000.00 to purchase the oil we need. Well, with every sneeze in the oil market the price continues to rise. A terrorist attack on an oil refinery, drilling platform/station or ship can add even more injury to the market. It's one thing to watch the prices rise on a daily basis, but quite another to consider the availability of fuel oil come next winter. What if Chavez decides to stop selling oil to the U.S. (for example)? With the stroke of a pen, incredible things can happen. Now the possibility of rationing becomes a reality - that's what I think about.

    I apologize to anyone who feels that we are adding to the problem with pellet shortages, prices, etc. But I feel we've earned our stripes. We have been hard-working Americans our entire lives, never so much as a parking ticket. We served our country proudly as anyone who serves has. As a combat-wounded disabled veteran, I know 241 Marines, Soldiers and Sailors who lost their opportunity to retire in a millisecond by one lone suicide terrorist.

    Aside from that, I would like to thank all of you who have helped us in making our pellet stove purchase a good one.

    Semper Fi: Steve
  19. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Saying we are "adding to the problem" is like yelling at us for breathing and eating...that contributes to a problem also.

    The investment in a backup heating source is always a good one, if for nothing else but the flexibility it gives. There is a reason that they put multiple mechanical systems (backups) in airplanes.....because it means less chance of crashing!

    My general concern is people who make rash decisions with borrowed money based on what a neighbor and dealer say. If, as Shortstuff did, one actually spends some time researching and planning, then chances are that most aspects have been thought through. Also, as the cc commercials say, some things are "priceless".

    But, damn, no parking ticket ever, Steve? I'm staring to lose my mental image of a "big, bad marine". Heck, if you haven't got in even that much trouble..........
    :lol:

    I get at least one parking ticket every 15 years.
  20. no1psycho

    no1psycho New Member

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    Steve,

    I am one of the newcomers and I don't feel I have to apologize for anything. It's out there for everyone to buy so more power to you and all of us that have finally decided to do the smart thing and look for multiple ways to heat our homes. The only person I think I should apologize to is my wife for keeping her so cold last winter and not looking into a pellet stove sooner. I appreciate the service that you have done as I am also a Veteran.
  21. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

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    I suppose I'm part of the "problem" with propane prices because I topped off in April. A full tank will last me 2 years.
    .........................................................truck part prices because I have an inventory on the shelf. Brakes, drums ,seals, leaf springs,oil filters,tires,etc enough to last a year or so.
    ......................................................... oil prices because I pre buy thousands of gallons at a time.
    ......................................................... food prices because my freezer and cupboards are full.
    .........................................................

    I could go on but when I see a bargain I BUY because I can and because it makes good business sense. SORRY but I have NO guilt for what I have done and no one else should either !
  22. billb3

    billb3 Minister of Fire

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    Anyone who believes home heating oil comes ONLY from Venezuela is a fool.

    Or a tool, or both.
  23. sinnian

    sinnian Minister of Fire

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    Who said that heating oil ONLY comes from Venezuela? I seemed to have missed that.
  24. ducker

    ducker Feeling the Heat

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    Hm, It isn't delivered in a heavy duty 2 ton pickup - but something more like:
    This

    Perhaps that might make more sense :)
  25. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    That, "This" works and could carry three cords, volume and weight.

    Generally anyone who says they deliver a full cord in a pickup truck is selling bull, that's the point about pickup trucks. A heaver duty, e.g., 2 ton, Pickup with high sides could carry a full cord.

    As far as oil from Venezuela goes, I don't recall any claims beyond it is a source of US consumed oil, and if Venezuela wants to sell here below market price, buy it. I refuse to buy gas from Citco, but that is at market price. If Chavez puts gas on the US market for $1 a gallon I too will line up for some, he's still making money, which I don't like, but iit is a matter of degree as to which source is worse.
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