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PE Pacific Insert Not Bullet-Proof

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Hogwildz, Aug 18, 2009.

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  1. ribs1

    ribs1 New Member

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    I say this is total garbage. That's 5 weeks away. Warranty work should have priority over new work. Somebody already bought a stove from you and paid you to install that stove. Now the stove has a problem. Waiting until December 28th to have it fixed is totally unacceptable. Sure, new jobs pay and warranty work does not, but when you sell a product with a warranty, you have to expect to keep time open or have the flexibility to honor those warranties in a timely fashion. If you are too busy to honor warranties, then you are too busy to accept new work.
    I would be out of business if I operated like this.

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  2. Nonprophet

    Nonprophet Minister of Fire

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    X2! The reason you're so busy is because it's cold and people are looking for heat! Likewise, so is the guy who already bought his stove from you, and now, through no fault of his own (a defective stove) he's supposed to freeze for 5 weeks??? Lastly, warranty work DOES pay--the stove manufacturer reimburses the dealer for warranty work (in most cases). If I had to wait 5 weeks to get service on my defective $3,000 stove, I'd be demanding a refund and take my business someplace else.......

    NP
  3. crazy_dan

    crazy_dan New Member

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    Really bashing a business owner that has nothing to do with this? Just offering some insite to how he does buisness. Has this worked you guys in the past? I would book new and old business the same way first come first serve, IE you get your name in the appointment book in the order the appointment was requested. So what you guys are saying is I should bump a new stove install that pays today because the warranty work does pay eventually? If everybody did this then they would be out of business because payday still comes on Friday this Friday not some distant one.
  4. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    While we discuss the challenges for dealerships etc., I think it is important to be clear about two issues. The delay now with my warranty claim, according to the information I have, has nothing to do with liability issues or time constaints.

    First of all, the dealer did not indicate (so far) that the reluctance to reinstall the stove was about liability. They indicated that the issue was that they paid for the removal and were going to have to pay for the reinstall themselves. Therefore, it is a manufacturer/dealership issue (ie. does the warranty cover this). The warranty states that labour is covered, so the reinstall should be included?!

    In regard to liability, if I had a chimney fire after the install, I would be blaming myself, since I clean and inspect my own liner etc. If the install of the liner was proved to be the problem, I would be going after the original installer of the liner. If the stove overfired, due to a crack etc. and caused a fire, I would be blaming the manufacturer and distributor responsible for the repairs. The dealership, under PE's warranty blanket, just has to put back the stove in the same condition it was when it was prior to removal (minus the cracks of course). I would be there, with them, assisting with and inspecting the work. I would even put in the last screw, to signify that I take responsibility from the dealer for the install.

    Secondly, the dealership has not indicated that they are too busy to do the reinstall. The wait now is due to who is going to pay. As I stated in the first paragraph, the dealership indicated that they had removed the stove on their own dime. I do believe that this was to be covered under the warranty. Therefore that would lead me to believe that the manufacturer is intentionally/unintentionally not being clear with the dealer, in regard to roles/responsibilities/warranty coverage.

    Another thing that bothers me a bit, is that Cory from PE has not answered the questions in my email I had sent him, in regard to the condition of my stove or the interpretation of the 5 year comprehensive warranty (refer to post #303 and his response in post #306). He is the Manager for Technical and Customer Services and should be able to clarify those issues. I am not sure if the lack of answers was intentional or unintentional. What does everyone think of his response?
  5. pilot-werx

    pilot-werx Member

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    Two things..... One, Really glad I did not buy a stove from you... Two, that is the most ludicrous piece of customer service advice I have ever seen....
  6. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    Update:

    November 16, 2009 - Lynn from the dealership called to say that they are picking up the stove and will schedule for the reinstallation. She stated that she tried to contact Cory from PE, but still has not heard back from him. She stated not to worry and that the dealership and distributor will be sending PE their bills for the warranty work. Lynn has been awesome through this whole process.

    So they just have to look at their schedule and I will be getting my stove back!
  7. ribs1

    ribs1 New Member

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    Me too. When someone spends in the neighborhood of 4000 bucks, they deserve to know their warranty will be served in a timely fashion.
    The stove business is not the only business that is seasonally busy.
  8. thechimneysweep

    thechimneysweep Minister of Fire

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    So, who would you business experts bump so you send a crew over to take care of the re-install? Doesn't every customer who called us several weeks ago because they need their chimney cleaned, or their gas stove or furnace serviced, or the stove they paid for installed, or whatever they need us to do, deserve to have us keep our appointment?

    I realize there are other seasonal businesses, but submit that there are few businesses as seasonal as ours, that also need professionals trained in a trade as unique as ours who will remain available year after year despite the annual layoffs in the off-season. We do the best we can with the personnel we have, and do the work in the order it comes in, as that's the fairest way we can come up with to handle the seasonal rush. We've stayed in business over 30 years with that philosophy, and fostered thousands of loyal customers who are willing to wait six and even eight weeks for an appointment when they delay until the busy season to call.

    By the way, inviting a customer to call other customers to hijack their booking date is not something we would actually do. I was trying to give forum members an insight into the situation Sisu's dealer likely finds himself in, in mid-November, faced with re-installing an insert that took a professional installer, with the help of the homeowner who performed the installation in the first place, over an hour and a half to uninstall.
  9. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    In an effort to stay on topic, the dealership (although very busy I am sure) has not indicated that time constraints are an issue in this case. It looks like the dealership is making a real effort to see this through, and I really thank them for it. Refer to my posts #328 and #330 for more details.
  10. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    We've had several stoves, some bought from stove and spa stores that forgot your name the moment you were out of the door and some from great stores like the Chimney Sweep. Personally working with Tom's shop was one of the most pleasurable stove experiences I've had. They will bend over backward to help you out and although they may not be able to solve your problem instantly, they stay in very close touch with the customer. There aren't many shops out there that offer a satisfaction guarantee and back it up so well.
  11. thechimneysweep

    thechimneysweep Minister of Fire

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    Thanks, BG. As always, your fiver is in the mail.
  12. Wacky1

    Wacky1 New Member

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    I, personally did not buy from Tom. But I will say this, I emailed a question about an insert for my home, on a Sunday, and within a few hours I got a response, with very helpful information. He helped me decide which one would work the best for my needs. He was able to explain to me what I needed. I did not get the impression that he was "just out to make a sale". The information he provided me ,and has on his website, quick response to my questions was the deciding factor for me to buy my PE. I purchased locally because I do that when I can. If I could not find a reputable dealer locally, I would have purchased from Tom. I am happy with my insert and its performance. And I have piece of mind knowing that PE does stand behind their product. Thanks again Tom, for all you do to help out your fellow wood burners. ;-)
  13. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    A lesson from this thread:

    No matter what brand stove you have or where you bought it, look it over good every year. IN MAY!
  14. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    I second that Tom is top notch. Hell I order whatever I need from him most the time, across the country, rather than deal with local, because local is not as knowledgeable & service oriented.
    There are good dealers, and there are not so good dealers. If a dealer is booked up for 5 weeks, there is a reason for that, cause he is a good dealer!
    Not directed as Sisu, but the other comments, having a hissy fit like a 2 year old because you have to wait your turn, is just that, acting like a baby not getting their way.
    These issues are not a, come fix it in an hour and be done with it. If it was, it would be done. Its not a matter of loosening a screw or two, replacing a part, and going on your merry way.
    I just love how folks love to jump in the mix and start bashing everything & everyone just to stir shat up. If ya have nothing positive to add to the thread, then go to the ash can and post your opinions etc there.
    Negativity does not solve issues. This thread is a serious issue several owners are having, either contribute in a helpful manner, or please take it up in another thread.
    Thank you for your understanding in advance.

    I am sure glad I had them come fix in place, sure saved a wait & headaches.
    I am not saying everyone has that option, or it works for all. But I still feel the customer should do all they can on their side to also mitigate the issue.
    Again, not attacking you Sisu, seems you are staying pro-active, and that is a good thing. Or I would think your wait would be even longer.

    Seriously guys/gals, either contribute in a positive way here, or move on.
    The ash can has plenty of trolls just waiting for you. Go feed em there.
  15. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    X100, I was guilty of that myself. Live & learn, usually the hard way for me.
    ;)
  16. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    No worries Hog! I too think some of this discussion (ie. about best practices for the dealership) is getting off topic. My experience has been that it also depends who you deal within the dealership. If you remember, the first dealer contact said he did things when he didn't do them (sending in my warranty claim), never called when my baffle arrived, and generally made me feel like he didn't care at all. Since then, I have dealt with Lynn and Herb, who are also working at the same dealership. They have been honest, top notch, professional, and empathetic. All which is a part of a good business.

    As the customer, I have tried to make a point to be empathetic and professional. I haven't yelled, been snarky, whined or been unreasonable. I have, like Hog said, tried to be pro-active and to be informed of every stage. I have asked questions during the different stages, many of which I can credit to other posters in this forum!

    There is debate whether or not I am asking for too much by getting the reinstall done by the dealership etc. I respect everyone's opinion, but the person I was hoping to receive an official answer was from Cory. I am a bit disappointed and curious why I haven't received a direct answer for Cory to my questions, as he is the one who directly applies and enforces the PE warranty. I, and I am sure many other posters here, would like to know exactly what the official interpretation of the 5 year comprehensive warranty is and what things are and are not covered.

    Regardless, the reinstall seems to be a go. All it needs is to be scheduled. I am not sure who made the official decision, but I am glad that it was done.
  17. Csmith

    Csmith New Member

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    I spoke with my dealer today. They are being really cool about the issue. I am less than impressed with PE's response to them. I went ahead and let them know that I want the stove replaced (not repaired). For a woodstove a little over 3 years old and only used 3 winters to have such a issue and PE not being more forth coming about fixing it gives me a sinking feeling. Luckily it is not my only source of heat otherwise I would be downright angry.
  18. MovingOffGrid

    MovingOffGrid Member

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    Smitty .... what stove are you getting to replace it? another Summit? have they provided any re-assurances that the weld problems won't re-occur?

    dealer giving you any options for new stove?

    if you get another Summit to replace it, will you burn it any differently next time? (not meant to be a loaded question, just wondering if you'd treat it any differently).

    after re-reading this thread, I realize my questions may be a bit premature, but I'm all ears when you know more
  19. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    Smitty what has been PE's response so far? Who did you speak to from PE?

    I have yet to receive an official answer about the 5 year comprehensive warranty in regard to the interpretation of "replace" and what is exactly covered under it. Keep good records what everyone (ie. dealer, manufacturer, etc.) tells you and when.

    You are welcome to document your claim on this thread. Let us know what happens.
  20. CK-1

    CK-1 Feeling the Heat

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    Your Business Module only includes monetary gain and leaves out any hopes for customer satisfaction. The dealer un-installed the stove to begin with and should re-install the stove as well. A Waiver should be created removing them from any liability with the owner present during installation. To be a good business you don't start a job and not finish it with liability execuses. If a fire starts due to the dealers install, then they shouldn't be in the fireplace business to begin with. If the owner had disconnected the stove, then the dealer should give a price of what if would cost for them to re-install it. If the owner declines the price, the dealer says goodbye and is out the door at this point.
  21. Csmith

    Csmith New Member

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    Not sure if this has been brought up yet. But according to the wikipedia article on Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

    "Under the terms of the Act, ambiguous statements in a warranty are construed against the drafter of the warranty"

    IANAL, but replaced=replaced. I am sure that PE had a team of lawyers draft the warranty, so it possible that I am missing something entirely, or possibly they never anticipated this situation.

    Regarding over firing, I have not over fired the stove but found this article that would call into question how that would be determined. Unfortunately it contains no references, so it just might be made up:

    http://machinedesign.com/article/warranty-coverage-avoiding-self-inflicted-wounds-0927

    My concern is this, every person that I have mentioned the reweld to me looks at me like I have two heads. Meaning they think I would be crazy to accept it. What if the welds fail again or if there are other welds not visible yet that are failing that could cause catastrophic failure.

    I contacted the Office of Consumer Affairs in my state about the warranty, but they will only investigate if I place a complaint, which at this time I do not want to do.

    There is still a discussion going on, so I am giving the process some time before commenting on it.
  22. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    If I remember correctly, this dealer did not perform the original install, but inherited the issues of the stove due to the installing dealer no longer being around.
    Sisu, can correct me if I am wrong.
  23. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    Hi Hog,

    You are correct. The dealership, in my case, did not conduct the original install. However, at this point, they are acting as an agent of PE, via the warranty, and have agreed to conduct the reinstallation.

    I spoke to Cory from PE this evening (since they are three hours behind being out in BC). I had a good chat with him and he was calling just to see how everything was going. He said he spoke to the distributor in regard to the weld repairs to my stove to ensure it was more than complete.

    He did say that they have noticed a small number of stoves have exhibited cracks in the areas we have seen. He stated that these were in stoves that were run pretty hard, but he made a point to say that they were not overfired. He said that the internal cracks that they have seen settle out and do not continue further, but there too, he made a point saying that they have no problems repairing any cracks and standing by their warranty.

    Anyway it was reassuring to speak with him. I didn't push the 5 year warranty interpretation, since it seems like things are working out. Now I just have to wait for the dealership to schedule me in and I will be reunited with my stove!
  24. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Get thee behind me Satin. And don't push. :zip:
  25. Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle

    Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle Minister of Fire

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    Satin ... is that like a laquer????

    :)
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