PE Pacific Insert - Two Years After the Repair

[Sisu]

Hi Everyone,

I am giving you an update to my current situation. For those who don’t know, I have a 2005 PE Pacific insert that I discovered cracked welds in the firebox and a crack within the door rim in 2009. After dealing with the dealer and manufacturer, the firebox was removed by the dealer and was repaired. I also was granted an extension of my 5 year comprehensive warranty to November 03, 2011 by the manufacturer. I posted about my experience on this thread: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/42141/

In 2010, after the annual chimney sweep and clean, I noticed some cracks in the welds and contacted the manufacturer. I didn’t get a response back at that time. I posted about my experience in this thread: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/58621/

This year, I cleaned the chimney early (mid-June) and observed the cracks becoming more pronounced and that the door rim crack was worsening. So on June 24, 2011, I contacted the dealer and put in another warranty claim. After a few weeks of no response, I contacted the dealer and they referred me to contact the distributor. After speaking with the distributor, I sent the pictures of the cracks via email.

Finally on August 12, 2011, the distributor called to say that they will replace the firebox and internals, but I will keep my original door and surround. As long as everything fits together, I am satisfied with that. They also stated the cost of the firebox is covered, but not labour (ie. removal and re-installation) and the firebox will be sent to the dealership. They also wanted me to return the cracked firebox. As a side note, the dealership used to be a 5 minute drive away, but is now located in another town, 51 kilometres (31 miles) away.

Any way, I am happy that finally the defective part is being replaced. However, I am a bit perturbed that they stated that labour (removal, delivery, re-installation) is not covered, even though my 5 year comprehensive warranty states that parts deemed defective will be “replaced†including parts and labour.

I brought the issue up with the dealership, and they stated that during my last warranty claim, where the firebox was replaced, the dealership did not receive any compensation from the manufacturer to remove and reinstall the stove. Is this typical of dealers?

I originally paid for the stove, cash and carry and did the install myself. However, the install was done with the intent that I would not be removing it again. Also, the firebox is a few hundred pounds, and not the easiest thing to remove and transport. Am I expecting too much, if I feel that the manufacturer should be responsible for the cost of removal and delivery?

 

[orionrogue]

I cannot speak about stove warranties, but more general advice. If you have it in writing that parts and labor are covered, you should contact the manufacturer again and push back about the distributor's claim that they didn't receive compensation for labor. They might be able to tell you if they received something for labor or not. The distributor might be pushing back on you because they weren't satisfied with the reimbursal the manufacturer provides. Just my $0.02.

I think that a written warranty claim that isn't being honored would have to go through small claims court, but this should probably be a last resort. Those actually in the industry might have more specific information for you. Best of luck on your resolution.

 

[Frostbit]

If your warranty states repairs include labor, then by all means I would not stand for paying anything out of pocket.

I followed your original thread two years ago. There were also a couple of others with similar problems with their PE's.

I would think that a company such as PE would consider that their reputation may be at stake here. They must know just how many people frequent this forum. They must realize that many folks come here to read about stoves, especially newbies looking to buy.

If I were a perspective new stove owner shopping for reviews and this one came up in its entirety, guaranteed red flag, both for this particular product AND the way the company dealt with the failure claim. Take the last two years of this thread continuation and compare it to, say, a few of the Woodstock or BK threads, it becomes quite obvious that the name PE might be striken from a potential buyers list.

Just my .02

 

[madison]

Hi Everyone,

I brought the issue up with the dealership, and they stated that during my last warranty claim, where the firebox was replaced, the dealership did not receive any compensation from the manufacturer to remove and reinstall the stove. Is this typical of dealers?

Bummer Sisu.

A casual conversation with a local dealer ( which I may have previously posted in your other threads ) indicates that the manufacture warranties are an "out of pocket" expense for the local dealers, and then they submit the claims to the manufacture for reimbursement -- and he related that it was typically difficult and with a long time delay that they are reimbursed -- typically only for parts -- the labor is all on the dealer/owner.

Basically it is my opinion that the implied warranties are a sales pitch by the manufacture, imposed upon the dealer willing to sell their stoves. I also look at it in another way, how many wood stoves does a typical homeowner purchase in a lifetime? Not too many, so the manufacture does not have to worry too much about satisfying the customer. It is all on the dealer.

 

[raybonz]

Hi Everyone,

I brought the issue up with the dealership, and they stated that during my last warranty claim, where the firebox was replaced, the dealership did not receive any compensation from the manufacturer to remove and reinstall the stove. Is this typical of dealers?

Bummer Sisu.

A casual conversation with a local dealer ( which I may have previously posted in your other threads ) indicates that the manufacture warranties are an "out of pocket" expense for the local dealers, and then they submit the claims to the manufacture for reimbursement -- and he related that it was typically difficult and with a long time delay that they are reimbursed -- typically only for parts -- the labor is all on the dealer/owner.

Basically it is my opinion that the implied warranties are a sales pitch by the manufacture, imposed upon the dealer willing to sell their stoves. I also look at it in another way, how many wood stoves does a typical homeowner purchase in a lifetime? Not too many, so the manufacture does not have to worry too much about satisfying the customer. It is all on the dealer.

Wow that is total bullcrap! The manfacturer should absorb all costs incurreed in a warranty repair!! I hope I never have to deal with a problem with my T-5! I fully expect the manufacturer to should the burden of all costs and honor their warranty 100%!! I hate reading stuff like this as it was inexpensive for this stove and I expect it to last and be reliable.. That warranty is not "implied" but rather it is explicit in nature! I quite frankly find it very hard to believe that PE (or any other company for that matter) expects the dealer to perform labor for free on a defective product.. Madison where did you get this info as it sounds bogus to me..

Ray

 

[madison]

As stated, local dealer - casual conversation, after I had to replace the "manifold booster" on my t-6. Search and you can read the thread on my experience. Which luckily required zero dealer labor, they drop shipped the part. And I dropped off the defective part on the way to work. But it took some phone calls and emails.

Intention was not to bum you out ray, but, if you peruse some of Sisu's threads and a few others regarding specifically in this case PE warranty issues, you will not find too many happy campers.

 

[raybonz]

As stated, local dealer - casual conversation, after I had to replace the "manifold booster" on my t-6. Search and you can read the thread on my experience. Which luckily required zero dealer labor, they drop shipped the part. And I dropped off the defective part on the way to work. But it took some phone calls and emails.

Intention was not to bum you out ray, but, if you peruse some of Sisu's threads and a few others regarding specifically in this case PE warranty issues, you will not find too many happy campers.

OK suppose your dealer went out of business, do you think they would absorb the labor when they didn't sell the stove? This is some very disappointing news to say the least.. I hope PE reads this forum as this is some very bad PR for them.. In this economy a bad reputation will put you out of business in NY minute..

Ray

 

[Sisu]

I think part of the problem with this issue is that I am dealing with three different entities: the dealer, the distributor, and the manufacturer. I am not sure what it is like in other dealerships in other places, but this seems to complicate and convolute things. Each of these entities has their own interests. In this warranty claim I have only dealt with the dealer and the distributor.

The dealer does not really seem to want to handle the situation, since I did the original install. He stated that I am considered the "contractor", and any further removal/install should be up to me, since the dealer was not paid to do the original install. He also implied that I should be just be happy that the firebox is being replaced. That is also when he dropped the bomb that they did not get a dime from PE for the removal/installation for the weld repairs. If that is true, I can understand their reluctance.

The distributor stated that the firebox will be replaced and no cost will be incurred, but labour won't be covered. I don't even know why the distributor is involved in the first place? Maybe some dealers can shed some light here. I am assuming they were in discussion with PE, but I would prefer to hear the decision and the rationale directly from PE.

IMO, I should be ultimately be dealing with the manufacturer. That way the information is first-hand and direct. Since I am not dealing with PE directly, I do not know if this information is true and if I am getting a proper interpretation of the warranty. Dealing directly with PE would also help speed up the warranty process in the first place. I made the claim on June 24, and things are still ongoing.

The part I really hate that I feel that I have to fight again to get what is explicite/implicit in the warranty. Although the warranty does not state that labour includes removal, delivery, and installation, as a customer, one would think that it does. For other household appliances (eg. furnace, washer, refridgerator, etc.) that malfunction while under warranty, the manufacturer usually does not tell you to remove it and send it back to them. Typically, they will send a repairman and/or collect it. I don't know why this item (that weighs probably more than my refridgerator and washer combined) would be treated any differently.

I could have easily gone with Napolean, since the manufacturer is about a 10 minute drive down the highway from where I live. Instead I decided to go with PE (who is on the other side of the country) because of its reputation. I heard a lot of good things about PE stoves. I also bought it because of the warranty. The dealer also made a point about PE's reputation and warranty during the sale. I never expected that the stove would have any issues requiring the warranty, but it gave me peace-of-mind at the time.

 

[Todd]

Sounds really frustrating, you have more patients than I do. Hope it turns out well.

 

[Sisu]

Hi Everyone,

I brought the issue up with the dealership, and they stated that during my last warranty claim, where the firebox was replaced, the dealership did not receive any compensation from the manufacturer to remove and reinstall the stove. Is this typical of dealers?

Bummer Sisu.

A casual conversation with a local dealer ( which I may have previously posted in your other threads ) indicates that the manufacture warranties are an "out of pocket" expense for the local dealers, and then they submit the claims to the manufacture for reimbursement -- and he related that it was typically difficult and with a long time delay that they are reimbursed -- typically only for parts -- the labor is all on the dealer/owner.

Basically it is my opinion that the implied warranties are a sales pitch by the manufacture, imposed upon the dealer willing to sell their stoves. I also look at it in another way, how many wood stoves does a typical homeowner purchase in a lifetime? Not too many, so the manufacture does not have to worry too much about satisfying the customer. It is all on the dealer.

So the dealer does not want to honour the warranty, since they don't get paid; and the manufacturer doesn't want to honour the warranty, since they don't rely on customer loyalty.

That is scary if it is true! But if it is, the manufacturers better catch up with the times, since there are now venues like Hearth.com that allow word to travel quickly to prospective buyers.

 

[Sisu]

Sounds really frustrating, you have more patients than I do. Hope it turns out well.

Thanks Todd! I will post what happens next.

 

[raybonz]

Hi Everyone,

I brought the issue up with the dealership, and they stated that during my last warranty claim, where the firebox was replaced, the dealership did not receive any compensation from the manufacturer to remove and reinstall the stove. Is this typical of dealers?

Bummer Sisu.

A casual conversation with a local dealer ( which I may have previously posted in your other threads ) indicates that the manufacture warranties are an "out of pocket" expense for the local dealers, and then they submit the claims to the manufacture for reimbursement -- and he related that it was typically difficult and with a long time delay that they are reimbursed -- typically only for parts -- the labor is all on the dealer/owner.

Basically it is my opinion that the implied warranties are a sales pitch by the manufacture, imposed upon the dealer willing to sell their stoves. I also look at it in another way, how many wood stoves does a typical homeowner purchase in a lifetime? Not too many, so the manufacture does not have to worry too much about satisfying the customer. It is all on the dealer.

So the dealer does not want to honour the warranty, since they don't get paid; and the manufacturer doesn't want to honour the warranty, since they don't rely on customer loyalty.

That is scary if it is true! But if it is, the manufacturers better catch up with the times, since there are now venues like Hearth.com that allow word to travel quickly to prospective buyers.

Sisu,
My eyes are glued to this post.. What you're dealing with is unbelievable and if PE has any class they will honor their word.. I hope to hell I never ever deal with this! My stove is newer and I hope they fixed the problems that created the cracked welds.. Many people do not like my old CDW but I will say it asked very little in the way of repairs and those I did over the course of over 20 yrs. were inexpensive so I am wondering why I "upgraded" after reading so many negative posts.. It seems that the problem is more isolated to a certain time frame so I may be fine.. Warrantees are nice to have but not something we want to use as it is an inconvenience to say the least.. I know if I place myself in your shoes or Madison, Hog etc. I would be very upset as this was a big investment and how would I explain all this to my family?? Makes us look like we didn't do our homework etc.. Know what I mean? I am 100% on your side and let's hope PE reads this forum and come clean as it will certainly make them look good to future stove buyers.. Not only must PE resolve this issue but do so quickly! I work as an electronics and instrumentation tech and I know I give rapid and solid service with good follow through and I expect the same of others...

Best Wishes,
Ray

 

[leeave96]

Hi Everyone,

I brought the issue up with the dealership, and they stated that during my last warranty claim, where the firebox was replaced, the dealership did not receive any compensation from the manufacturer to remove and reinstall the stove. Is this typical of dealers?

Bummer Sisu.

A casual conversation with a local dealer ( which I may have previously posted in your other threads ) indicates that the manufacture warranties are an "out of pocket" expense for the local dealers, and then they submit the claims to the manufacture for reimbursement -- and he related that it was typically difficult and with a long time delay that they are reimbursed -- typically only for parts -- the labor is all on the dealer/owner.

Basically it is my opinion that the implied warranties are a sales pitch by the manufacture, imposed upon the dealer willing to sell their stoves. I also look at it in another way, how many wood stoves does a typical homeowner purchase in a lifetime? Not too many, so the manufacture does not have to worry too much about satisfying the customer. It is all on the dealer.

So the dealer does not want to honour the warranty, since they don't get paid; and the manufacturer doesn't want to honour the warranty, since they don't rely on customer loyalty.

That is scary if it is true! But if it is, the manufacturers better catch up with the times, since there are now venues like Hearth.com that allow word to travel quickly to prospective buyers.

Sisu,
My eyes are glued to this post.. What you're dealing with is unbelievable and if PE has any class they will honor their word.. I hope to hell I never ever deal with this! My stove is newer and I hope they fixed the problems that created the cracked welds.. Many people do not like my old CDW but I will say it asked very little in the way of repairs and those I did over the course of over 20 yrs. were inexpensive so I am wondering why I "upgraded" after reading so many negative posts.. It seems that the problem is more isolated to a certain time frame so I may be fine.. Warrantees are nice to have but not something we want to use as it is an inconvenience to say the least.. I know if I place myself in your shoes or Madison, Hog etc. I would be very upset as this was a big investment and how would I explain all this to my family?? Makes us look like we didn't do our homework etc.. Know what I mean? I am 100% on your side and let's hope PE reads this forum and come clean as it will certainly make them look good to future stove buyers.. Not only must PE resolve this issue but do so quickly! I work as an electronics and instrumentation tech and I know I give rapid and solid service with good follow through and I expect the same of others...

Best Wishes,
Ray

I hope the PE stove warranties work out. I like their stoves inspite of their warranty issues - BUT it IS a lot of $$$$'s to pay for a stove that the mfg/distributor/dealer can't or won't stand behind.

It's amazing to me that PE is not reading this board and hopping all over these warranty issues as it is bad press for them.

This kind of crap really makes one do the opposite of their initial instinct - that is:

1. Buy a mail order woodstove without dealer support from a company with outstanding customer support - Woodstock.

2. Buy a box store stove for a fraction of the price with no dealer support from a company with outstanding customer support - Englander.

All the best.
Bill

 

[madison]

Ray,

My warranty replacement part was easy as the manifold is a part that you take out now and then for cleaning. But a 500 + pound item that is not on wheels in the middle of a home is another issue which, to most of us is something "we" never want to move.

The other question I have in my mind, and I do not in any way have any legal knowledge, is what is the legalities of a warranty from a company headquartered in a different country than the customer (sisu this is not the case with you)?

I digress with a little story, The first new automobile I purchased, 1987 VW Quantum Syncro Wagon, I purchased an extended warranty from VW later to learn that it was a third party, the few times I tried to use the warranty, the fine print excluded those parts (distributor cap and wires). The one time the item was covered, guess what, the third party warranty company was bankrupt, the owner was found off the coast of florida with a boatload of cocaine. VW said sorry. Last VW I purchased.... In general my limited experience with warranty work has not been good.

 

[raybonz]

Ray,

My warranty replacement part was easy as the manifold is a part that you take out now and then for cleaning. But a 500 + pound item that is not on wheels in the middle of a home is another issue which, to most of us is something "we" never want to move.

The other question I have in my mind, and I do not in any way have any legal knowledge, is what is the legalities of a warranty from a company headquartered in a different country than the customer (sisu this is not the case with you)?

I digress with a little story, The first new automobile I purchased, 1987 VW Quantum Syncro Wagon, I purchased an extended warranty from VW later to learn that it was a third party, the few times I tried to use the warranty, the fine print excluded those parts (distributor cap and wires). The one time the item was covered, guess what, the third party warranty company was bankrupt, the owner was found off the coast of florida with a boatload of cocaine. VW said sorry. Last VW I purchased.... In general my limited experience with warranty work has not been good.

The PE warranty as far as I know is direct from PE and involves them in a moral and financial sense.. Good business practice would dictate they take care of their customers.. By neglecting those who make their business a reality they are shooting themselves in the foot and setting the stage for failure.. I hope PE reads this forum so they can salvage what's left of their reputation..

Ray

 

[Sisu]

I called PE last night, after I arrived home from work (they are three hour behind time zone). I left a message for Cory (Customer Service) with the receptionist, as he was away at the time. He promptly called me back, which was a good change from last year. I explained the situation (distributor will replace the firebox, but labour is not included) and reminded him that it is still under the 5 year comprehensive warranty. From the impression I got, the warranty claim and decision making had only gone as far as the distributor.

Things were going well at the start. He said that they are willing to honour the replacement decision and will speak with the dealer and the distributor. But he also said that any removal/re-install would be more of courtesy vs. letter of the warranty. I used the example a major appliance requiring service under warranty, but he mentioned that it doesn't work like that in the woodstove industry. I brought up the statement about the dealer not getting paid for the stove removal/re-install during the last repair, but he couldn't remember what had been agreed upon.

Then he asked is the current insert heating us out of the room, is it comfortable, is it cold? That is when I asked how is that relevant? First of all, the insert in operation during the winter keeps the basement den in the mid -80s degrees Fahrenheit. The house is a bungalow, so the mainfloor ranges from 70 to 68 degrees Fahrenheit, the furthest bedrooms being the coldest spot. So no, it is not heating us out of the room. He stated that the stoves operation is probably "rough" causing the cracking. Especially, in his opinion, since the repaired welds recracked, and is not due to a flaw with the stove construction. I explained that during the repair process, the original welder the dealer wanted to use to repair the firebox stated that it could not be repaired properly, due to the difficulty in welding in the tight space after the firebox has been fully constructed. It was the welder's opinion that if it is repaired, it will probably crack again. Cory did not put any weight in that argument.

I also stated that my house was built in the 1960s, and despite my best efforts is not 100 percent energy efficient. So for a stove to heat my family out of the room would not probably work. Also, I cannot tell if the stove is operating too hot, as I don't have another similar stove to compare. I did mention that when the stove is in operation 24/7, that the stove thermometers can peak into the 800s, after a full load has been added and the vent has been fully turned down. To that, he stated that the temperature is irrelevant, which is why they don't put a maximum operating temperature on their stoves. He again that the fact the stove cracked and recracked means that the operation is rough.

I did not shy away from the fact I used the stove as its intended purpose (to burn wood and provide heat) and burn about 5 bush cords a year through it. It is not just for ambiance. I stated though, that I am operating the stove as per the manufacturer's instructions, and as so, how would that contribute to "rough" or over-fire operation? If I am turning the air vent down fully as the stove is burning, how can the stove be operated "rough"? He did state that there are many variables (eg. draft, type of wood etc.). I continued by stating that I don't not burn tires etc and use only seasoned hardwood. I also relayed a story from the dealership that they did once receive a PE stove that a weld drip spot was preventing the air vent from fully closing. Cory still thought that the cracks are due to stove operation not construction.

He asked what would happen if I received a stove with 25% less BTU output. He said that if the current stove is not heating us out of the room, then I might be inclined to turn up the next stove, to make up for the heat loss and damage it too. I responded that I operated and will operate the stove to manufacturer's instructions and that I have a gas furnace to make up for any loss. I am still unclear how this is relevant?

So his concluded the telephone converstation, stating that he will discuss the matter with the distributor and the dealer. He will honour the warranty, but wasn't sure if replacement is the best option now. A refund might be the option, since he thinks that a replacement will be operated under that same conditions and will result in cracking again. I reiterated that I have operated the stove as per the manufacturer's instructions and I would be satisfied with a replacement firebox. He stated that I will be contacted later this week with their decision etc.

 

[Sisu]

Any way I am in limbo again, not sure if I am any further ahead. There are a number of issues that concern me:

1. The fact that he would not consider that the stove could be a lemon in the batch. He dismissed the original welder's opinion etc.

2. In his opinion, the cracked welds are because of stove operation. I can understand drafting issues etc. can contribute to hotter fires. However, this is an insert that does not allow for stove pipe damper. Also the instructions do not really give the owner any sort of guidance to identify and solve drafting issues. Can a stove over-fire when the air-vent is on its lowest setting?

3. There does not seem any desire to diagnose the problem. Why would they not inspect the firebox when it was originally repaired, to ensure there are no construction issues. If drafting is suspected, is there a calculation using the liner diameter, liner length etc. that would indicate that excessive drafting can occur? If that is the culprit, why not diagnose and offer solutions vs saying buy an insert from someone else?

4. This is not an isolated event. I haven't tallied the numbers of members here who are PE owners with similar issues, but there are more than I ever expected. I am sure that we are not all operating our stoves "roughly". Also, the problem stoves also seem to be of a similar vintage, which could indicate flaws in design, manufacturing, and/or materials. I do know that at least one member, who had their cracks repaired, experienced recracking too.

5. I bought this stove, because of PE's reputation. Everything I heard was that their stoves are solid and have a great warranty. I even told the dealer that I intend to burn all through the winter, during the point of sale. The dealer stated that this stove can handle it. So, if this stove cannot handle a full winter of burning, who makes a stove that can?!

At this point, I will wait to hear back from either PE, distributor or dealer in regard to their decisions. All through this process I have been civil but firm. I don't like having to fight, but I feel that I am my only advocate (that and the members here!) in this process. It is bloody tiring, since the process seems to be going circles vs forward. But PE still has a chance to make it right.

 

[hemlock]

Did they eleborate on "rough"? My PE cracked in the same places as yours did, and I don't run it rough (depending on the definition). I'm not sure what they mean - you load the stove, open the air, get it buring good and choke back the air - pretty straightforward, no violence involved.

 

[Milton Findley]

I have held a stinger in my hand only once, and I laid down only about an inch of bead at that time. I am no welder.

In a former life, I was a technical writer and one of my more epic tomes, (still in use today), was about how to make an initial weld that will not crack when stressed, and how to make a repair to one which has cracked under repeated stress. There are a couple of things that strike me when I look at the pictures, one being the difference in the oxidation of the welds and the surrounding metal, the locations of the cracks, and the repetitious nature of the problem. When I see things like that, I think that there are issues with the original design in that the metal in the stove must flex rather than be allowed to expand and contract, that the original welding included a lot of slag and gas bubbles meaning that the welder has a skill level similar to my own, that the welds were made to cold metal with a substandard machine and that the welding rod itself might have been incompatible with the intended purpose.

All of these things support numbers 1, 3, and 4 in the preceding post.

 

[leeave96]

I would take the refund and move on from this nightmare.

Just as a point of reference, I don't think I've ever heard of a Buck or Englander stove insert having these cracking problems and I'm sure they get burned as hard as the PE inserts.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[Sisu]

Did they eleborate on "rough"? My PE cracked in the same places as yours did, and I don't run it rough (depending on the definition). I'm not sure what they mean - you load the stove, open the air, get it buring good and choke back the air - pretty straightforward, no violence involved.

Well that is a good question which I tried to get an answer too. He stated that there are many different variables (eg. draft, wood type, etc.). The fact that I burn 24/7 from mid-fall to mid-spring was operating the stove in its "upper limits" in his opinion. He was trying to make the case that if the stove is being used to heat a poorly insulated house, that I might be trying to push out more BTUs than it is rated for.

However, I am not operating my stove to a cherry red to keep my house warm. I made the same statement as you to Cory. I add wood, open the air to get it burning, choke it back to the lowest setting. How can that considered "rough"?! If it is, the manufacturer's instructions should include the disclaimer "WARNING - DAMAGE MAY OCCUR IF THIS STOVE IS TO BE USED FOR WOODBURNING!"

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

Hmmm, When I bought my Buck my dealer friend tried to sway me to a cat stove if burning 24/7 for the heating season because the cat stoves are more efficient and get a more even stable burn. He said the burn tube type heat very well but require more attention to keep heat even. He never said I could not burn 24/7 and hot at that.

I asked him the temp range to burn and was not exactly sure and told me to contact Buck so I did. I told the engineer what I do and how I do it. He asked me how hot I get the sucker and I told him that I get the front surface at 650, or there abouts and the flames become like a picture. He said buddy, you ain't gonna hurt that stove. So that's what I do, burn it hot!

However, one time, and I learned not to close off the air supply when the temperature is climbing quickly.....I thought in my mind that this would choke the air and the temp would stabilize and decrease. Nope it kept climbing, so I panicked and opened the door slowly and temp dropped.

Closing off the air will make the firebox temp go up and open the draft will make the stack temp go up, so I think....

 

[Sisu]

I would take the refund and move on from this nightmare.

Just as a point of reference, I don't think I've ever heard of a Buck or Englander stove insert having these cracking problems and I'm sure they get burned as hard as the PE inserts.

Good luck,
Bill

I understand that a refund is an option. However, after everything I have experienced, I am suspicious they might try for a prorated vs full refund. Which would result in a loss of my original investment to put towards buying another insert.

Also, I would have to pay for another WETT inspection, etc. which are things that are not probably taken into account with any refund.

 

[begreen]

Suspicions can take you all over the place. Ask and let us know what they say.

 

[begreen]

I would take the refund and move on from this nightmare.

Just as a point of reference, I don't think I've ever heard of a Buck or Englander stove insert having these cracking problems and I'm sure they get burned as hard as the PE inserts.

Good luck,
Bill

IIRC BrotherBart had a faulty weld on his 30NC. To their credit, Englander dealt with it quickly. Problems can and do happen with any stove. It's how they're dealt with that's important.