PE Pacific Insert - Two Years After the Repair

[Sisu]

It is now Monday and I am still waiting to hear back from either PE, the distributor, or the dealer, even though I was told I would hear from someone by the end of last week. The more I think about it, the more Cory from PE's question "Does the stove heat us out of the room?" does not make a lot of sense. First of all, he did not ask about the size of the room, location in the house, type of house, efficiency of the house, etc. which all would have some bearing on the heat output of the insert. Secondly, he did not ask about burn times achieved etc., which would be more indicative of whether or not the insert is experiencing excessive drafting.

For the wood burning experts out here, would you be able to achieve over night burns, if a stove is over-drafting?

Also, for everyone who has had their PE stove/insert cracked, can you post your information (ie. type and model of stove, year of manufacture, which floor is it on, type of chimney, height and diameter of flue, type and amount of wood burned in a season, etc.). I am just trying to gather data for comparison, to see if "rough" operation is the culprit.

 

[CK-1]

Hey there Sisu...
I just finished reading this thread and I also remember reading your previous threads on the same issue. From a fellow PE Summit owner, this issue is starting to concern me. Not so much about the cracks since I have started inspecting my stove since reading your previous threads, but the customer service or lack there of. If memory serves me correctly, I think someone directed a PE rep. to the previous threads so they can personally read the feedback. I also think a willingness not to resolve issues under warranty in a timely manner will deter people from purchasing a PE product.

 

[Sisu]

Hey there Sisu...
I just finished reading this thread and I also remember reading your previous threads on the same issue. From a fellow PE Summit owner, this issue is starting to concern me. Not so much about the cracks since I have started inspecting my stove since reading your previous threads, but the customer service or lack there of. If memory serves me correctly, I think someone directed a PE rep. to the previous threads so they can personally read the feedback. I also think a willingness not to resolve issues under warranty in a timely manner will deter people from purchasing a PE product.

Yeah I am not sure if it helps or hinders posting my experience (as far as my warranty is concerned). If PE is reading these posts and is interested in continual improvement, they would realize that they might have some issues with their manufacturing, customer service and warranty that should be rectified.

 

[iceman]

Look what I just found!
Also looks like there is a line all the way across on both sides.. looks like that's where it was put together

Looks like I will have to put a claim in to...
There goes my dream of a t6 in the basement
I don't see cracks inside but a few places where it seems a tiny bit of the weld is gone ?
Oh geez!

 

[Sisu]

Look what I just found!
Also looks like there is a line all the way across on both sides.. looks like that's where it was put together

Looks like I will have to put a claim in to...
There goes my dream of a t6 in the basement
I don't see cracks inside but a few places where it seems a tiny bit of the weld is gone ?
Oh geez!

I am sorry to hear that, Iceman. What are the particulars on your Summit (eg. year of manufacture, amount of wood burned per year, etc.)?

Let us know how your claim goes too.

 

[iceman]

Look what I just found!
Also looks like there is a line all the way across on both sides.. looks like that's where it was put together

Looks like I will have to put a claim in to...
There goes my dream of a t6 in the basement
I don't see cracks inside but a few places where it seems a tiny bit of the weld is gone ?
Oh geez!

I am sorry to hear that, Iceman. What are the particulars on your Summit (eg. year of manufacture, amount of wood burned per year, etc.)?

Let us know how your claim goes too.

Well,
I burn 3-4 cords a year ... Not sure of the birthday but it was installed in 07
I have seen this thing hit 800+ and CALLED PE only to be told "it was built for that , don't worry, if it goes to 900 for extended periods of time then start checking your gaskets'

 

[traditions]

I currenty have a summit,and am not at all impressed with its performance.I have never seen 800 degrees or any thing close to that.I wish mine would drive me out of the room,but all the heat stays inside.I can put my hand right beside the thing and I can say its not that hot,then you open the door and thats where all the heat is.In my opinion this thing wouldnt heat a smelt shack.On the topic of your problem with the warranty problem,I had a Harmon tl 300 that they admitted had problems with the damper mechanism,and gave me a new updated stove,and I had the same problems with that stove.After 2 years of being dicked around by the dealer and by Harmon,I called the Maine Attorney Genral by the advise of a friend.I had never ever even considered sueing any one in my life.To make a long story short,my problem was solved within a week.I had been 2 years being told every thing from the parts are being shipped to I wasnt covered because I over fired the unit,which they had never seen.Knowing what I know now I wouldnt hesitate to get some one else involved,and it didnt coat me anything.I dont know how things work in your state ,but its worth looking into.I need to look at my stove to see if its cracked,but I cant imagine its ever got hot enough to do any damage.The only thing I have ever noticed in the 2 winters I have had the summit is that the baffle is coming apart.I have heard that this will be covered ,but I hope I dont have this stove for another winter.I cant believe all the people that lovr thier PE stoves and hpw they heat.Good Luck

 

[certified106]

I currenty have a summit,and am not at all impressed with its performance.I have never seen 800 degrees or any thing close to that.I wish mine would drive me out of the room,but all the heat stays inside.I can put my hand right beside the thing and I can say its not that hot,then you open the door and thats where all the heat is.In my opinion this thing wouldnt heat a smelt shack.On the topic of your problem with the warranty problem,I had a Harmon tl 300 that they admitted had problems with the damper mechanism,and gave me a new updated stove,and I had the same problems with that stove.After 2 years of being dicked around by the dealer and by Harmon,I called the Maine Attorney Genral by the advise of a friend.I had never ever even considered sueing any one in my life.To make a long story short,my problem was solved within a week.I had been 2 years being told every thing from the parts are being shipped to I wasnt covered because I over fired the unit,which they had never seen.Knowing what I know now I wouldnt hesitate to get some one else involved,and it didnt coat me anything.I dont know how things work in your state ,but its worth looking into.I need to look at my stove to see if its cracked,but I cant imagine its ever got hot enough to do any damage.The only thing I have ever noticed in the 2 winters I have had the summit is that the baffle is coming apart.I have heard that this will be covered ,but I hope I dont have this stove for another winter.I cant believe all the people that lovr thier PE stoves and hpw they heat.Good Luck

Welcome to the forums, In my opinion it sounds like you have either a wet wood problem or a draft problem. If I was you I would start a seperate thread explaining your flue setup and the condition of your firewood as well highlighting how you normally run the stove and let a few people see if they can help you get to the bottom of what is causing the low heat output. There was another member on here that was having the same problem maybe he will chime in and lend some insight.

 

[iceman]

I currenty have a summit,and am not at all impressed with its performance.I have never seen 800 degrees or any thing close to that.I wish mine would drive me out of the room,but all the heat stays inside.I can put my hand right beside the thing and I can say its not that hot,then you open the door and thats where all the heat is.In my opinion this thing wouldnt heat a smelt shack.On the topic of your problem with the warranty problem,I had a Harmon tl 300 that they admitted had problems with the damper mechanism,and gave me a new updated stove,and I had the same problems with that stove.After 2 years of being dicked around by the dealer and by Harmon,I called the Maine Attorney Genral by the advise of a friend.I had never ever even considered sueing any one in my life.To make a long story short,my problem was solved within a week.I had been 2 years being told every thing from the parts are being shipped to I wasnt covered because I over fired the unit,which they had never seen.Knowing what I know now I wouldnt hesitate to get some one else involved,and it didnt coat me anything.I dont know how things work in your state ,but its worth looking into.I need to look at my stove to see if its cracked,but I cant imagine its ever got hot enough to do any damage.The only thing I have ever noticed in the 2 winters I have had the summit is that the baffle is coming apart.I have heard that this will be covered ,but I hope I dont have this stove for another winter.I cant believe all the people that lovr thier PE stoves and hpw they heat.Good Luck

I think you have a wood problem too mine is always somewhere between 600-800.

My dlps sits at least 2 yrs ...however next year I will be trying something new
Resplit some of your splits you will get better temps

 

[hemlock]

Look what I just found!
Also looks like there is a line all the way across on both sides.. looks like that's where it was put together

Looks like I will have to put a claim in to...
There goes my dream of a t6 in the basement
I don't see cracks inside but a few places where it seems a tiny bit of the weld is gone ?
Oh geez!

Iceman, have a good look at the welds in the upper corners of the primay air channels. You may have to brush away some grit. I suspect the crack on the face (mine has one also), is a symptom of the internal welds letting go. From the picture, it looks as though yours has even buckled a bit. Good luck.

 

[iceman]

My dealer is long gone....
This really blows I am frustrated right now! And def not trusting PE right about , not even sure what to do!
Am feeling like just getting another stove. But if I have to spend another $3g might as well invest in a furnace and sell my wood.... Find a englander for the basement and call it a day!
Pissed!
Could someone please pm me the contact info for whoever I need to speak to at pe?
Thanks

 

[Sisu]

I currenty have a summit,and am not at all impressed with its performance.I have never seen 800 degrees or any thing close to that.I wish mine would drive me out of the room,but all the heat stays inside.I can put my hand right beside the thing and I can say its not that hot,then you open the door and thats where all the heat is.In my opinion this thing wouldnt heat a smelt shack.On the topic of your problem with the warranty problem,I had a Harmon tl 300 that they admitted had problems with the damper mechanism,and gave me a new updated stove,and I had the same problems with that stove.After 2 years of being dicked around by the dealer and by Harmon,I called the Maine Attorney Genral by the advise of a friend.I had never ever even considered sueing any one in my life.To make a long story short,my problem was solved within a week.I had been 2 years being told every thing from the parts are being shipped to I wasnt covered because I over fired the unit,which they had never seen.Knowing what I know now I wouldnt hesitate to get some one else involved,and it didnt coat me anything.I dont know how things work in your state ,but its worth looking into.I need to look at my stove to see if its cracked,but I cant imagine its ever got hot enough to do any damage.The only thing I have ever noticed in the 2 winters I have had the summit is that the baffle is coming apart.I have heard that this will be covered ,but I hope I dont have this stove for another winter.I cant believe all the people that lovr thier PE stoves and hpw they heat.Good Luck

Where abouts is your baffle coming apart? Can you take and post a photo of it?

 

[iceman]

My dealer is long gone....
This really blows I am frustrated right now! And def not trusting PE right about , not even sure what to do!
Am feeling like just getting another stove. But if I have to spend another $3g might as well invest in a furnace and sell my wood.... Find a englander for the basement and call it a day!
Pissed!
Could someone please pm me the contact info for whoever I need to speak to at pe?
Thanks

 

[Sisu]

Look what I just found!
Also looks like there is a line all the way across on both sides.. looks like that's where it was put together

Looks like I will have to put a claim in to...
There goes my dream of a t6 in the basement
I don't see cracks inside but a few places where it seems a tiny bit of the weld is gone ?
Oh geez!

I am sorry to hear that, Iceman. What are the particulars on your Summit (eg. year of manufacture, amount of wood burned per year, etc.)?

Let us know how your claim goes too.

Well,
I burn 3-4 cords a year ... Not sure of the birthday but it was installed in 07
I have seen this thing hit 800+ and CALLED PE only to be told "it was built for that , don't worry, if it goes to 900 for extended periods of time then start checking your gaskets'

I went to my dealer too with similar concerns when I first started to use my stove. I was told the same thing "Don't worry it is a PE. It pushes the heat and you can't hurt it."

 

[Sisu]

I have good news to report. I contacted Cory at PE yesterday evening and he said that he has spoken with the distributor and dealer, and the cracked firebox will be removed and replaced. There was no more discussion about rough operations etc.

Now I just have to hear from or contact the distributor. Cory said that they (distributor or PE) will inspect the cracked firebox to see what the failure was with the repaired welds and determine if they need to tighten things on their end.

I am satisfied with the response. It was something that probably should have been done in 2009, but better late than never. I am happy to see that they will look at the cracked firebox, even if it only to inspect the repaired welds.

So now I just have to see when things can be scheduled for the removal and reinstall. One thing I have learned through these warranty claims is that "you" are your only advocate. If you do not ask, you don't get. Also, when you are dealing with a dealer, distributor and manufacturer combined, things can get lost in translation. It is a case of the left hand does not always know what the right hand is doing. When in doubt, contact the manufacturer.

I will keep you up to date on what happens next.

 

[raybonz]

Look what I just found!
Also looks like there is a line all the way across on both sides.. looks like that's where it was put together

Looks like I will have to put a claim in to...
There goes my dream of a t6 in the basement
I don't see cracks inside but a few places where it seems a tiny bit of the weld is gone ?
Oh geez!

Iceman,
I have looked at that pic and are you sure that's a crack? Looks more like a seam to me.. I wouldn't think the weld would sag as it is steel not solder or bronze etc.. Seems everyone is over worried about the PE stoves .. I wrote PE and also The chimneysweep online and recieved answers to my questions and positive remarks from the sweep and PE (Cory) backing their products.. According to the Chimney Sweep they have no problems with cracks and though they did not sell me the stove explained all questions and concerns.. I was impressed that The Chimney Sweep took the time to talk to me even though I bought my stove at a local dealer.. Good Luck!!

Ray

 

[iceman]

Look what I just found!
Also looks like there is a line all the way across on both sides.. looks like that's where it was put together

Looks like I will have to put a claim in to...
There goes my dream of a t6 in the basement
I don't see cracks inside but a few places where it seems a tiny bit of the weld is gone ?
Oh geez!

Iceman,
I have looked at that pic and are you sure that's a crack? Looks more like a seam to me.. I wouldn't think the weld would sag as it is steel not solder or bronze etc.. Seems everyone is over worried about the PE stoves .. I wrote PE and also The chimneysweep online and recieved answers to my questions and positive remarks from the sweep and PE (Cory) backing their products.. According to the Chimney Sweep they have no problems with cracks and though they did not sell me the stove explained all questions and concerns.. I was impressed that The Chimney Sweep took the time to talk to me even though I bought my stove at a local dealer.. Good Luck!!

Ray

Yes ray it is a seam but that's where the crack is starting... The same thing on the other side at the seam..
I am also experiencing some stress on . The inside welds... It seems to me as the crack will get wider causing the seam to possibly separate.. I am not sure as I don't know how it was put together
These

 

[begreen]

. I was impressed that The Chimney Sweep took the time to talk to me even though I bought my stove at a local dealer.. Good Luck!!

Ray

Tom and crew run a first class shop. It's partly why I don't lose sleep at night worrying about this.

 

[begreen]

I have good news to report.

I will keep you up to date on what happens next.

Thanks for the update. Sounds like you are making progress and will be ok soon. Keep us posted.

 

[BrotherBart]

Anybody ever notice that these busted stoves are inserts. Folks quit running these things at temps measured on the front of it based on what PE and everybody else tells you about the temps on the stove top of a freestanding stove. Two years ago I reported here about testing temps on my old insert. The front of the thing is 150 - 200 degrees cooler than the top plate. I did the measurements again last year with the 30-NC and the spread is larger. Because the air wash in the front to keep the glass clean cools the front of the stove.

So if PE tells you that running a Summit at 900 every once in a while won't bust it, they ain't talking about 900 on a mag thermo stuck on the front of it.

Message to be repeated in another two years.

 

[iceman]

Anybody ever notice that these busted stoves are inserts. Folks quit running these things at temps measured on the front of it based on what PE and everybody else tells you about the temps on the stove top of a freestanding stove. Two years ago I reported here about testing temps on my old insert. The front of the thing is 150 - 200 degrees cooler than the top plate. I did the measurements again last year with the 30-NC and the spread is larger. Because the air wash in the front to keep the glass clean cools the front of the stove.

So if PE tells you that running a Summit at 900 every once in a while won't bust it, they ain't talking about 900 on a mag thermo stuck on the front of it.

Message to be repeated in another two years.

That is a good point BB. Last year , I used an IR as well as 2 stove top therm on the front and never got the same temp from any of the 3 at the same time .. my IR was always the lowest with the biggest diff of 125 degrees..
Most of the time the 2 therm were off from each other 50-75 degrees .. but that would be where the most stress is as cool air is coming in right there but hot air is also.going up the chimney right under it ... So I can imagine that may have something to do with it

 

[hemlock]

Anybody ever notice that these busted stoves are inserts. Folks quit running these things at temps measured on the front of it based on what PE and everybody else tells you about the temps on the stove top of a freestanding stove. Two years ago I reported here about testing temps on my old insert. The front of the thing is 150 - 200 degrees cooler than the top plate. I did the measurements again last year with the 30-NC and the spread is larger. Because the air wash in the front to keep the glass clean cools the front of the stove.

So if PE tells you that running a Summit at 900 every once in a while won't bust it, they ain't talking about 900 on a mag thermo stuck on the front of it.

Message to be repeated in another two years.

Mine is a freestanding, and I measure temps with an IR on the stove top. I've yet to see it at 900. Even 800 is a rarity.

 

[certified106]

Anybody ever notice that these busted stoves are inserts. Folks quit running these things at temps measured on the front of it based on what PE and everybody else tells you about the temps on the stove top of a freestanding stove. Two years ago I reported here about testing temps on my old insert. The front of the thing is 150 - 200 degrees cooler than the top plate. I did the measurements again last year with the 30-NC and the spread is larger. Because the air wash in the front to keep the glass clean cools the front of the stove.

So if PE tells you that running a Summit at 900 every once in a while won't bust it, they ain't talking about 900 on a mag thermo stuck on the front of it.

Message to be repeated in another two years.

I did notice that and had wondered if it had something to do with the stoves running hotter or having a greater temperature differenrtial between the front of the stove and the rest of the stove due to it sitting back inside the fireplace. I would love to know if their engineering department has run any thermal models on the inserts.

 

[madison]

Anybody ever notice that these busted stoves are inserts. Folks quit running these things at temps measured on the front of it based on what PE and everybody else tells you about the temps on the stove top of a freestanding stove. Two years ago I reported here about testing temps on my old insert. The front of the thing is 150 - 200 degrees cooler than the top plate. I did the measurements again last year with the 30-NC and the spread is larger. Because the air wash in the front to keep the glass clean cools the front of the stove.

So if PE tells you that running a Summit at 900 every once in a while won't bust it, they ain't talking about 900 on a mag thermo stuck on the front of it.

Message to be repeated in another two years.

Apparently it is not isolated to inserts: Hemlocks thread - https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/75009/

 

[Sisu]

Anybody ever notice that these busted stoves are inserts. Folks quit running these things at temps measured on the front of it based on what PE and everybody else tells you about the temps on the stove top of a freestanding stove. Two years ago I reported here about testing temps on my old insert. The front of the thing is 150 - 200 degrees cooler than the top plate. I did the measurements again last year with the 30-NC and the spread is larger. Because the air wash in the front to keep the glass clean cools the front of the stove.

So if PE tells you that running a Summit at 900 every once in a while won't bust it, they ain't talking about 900 on a mag thermo stuck on the front of it.

Message to be repeated in another two years.

Hi BB,

I don't know if people are running into the 900s, but mine was dipping into the 800s. After burning 24/7 during the winter months, the stove would spike after putting a full load for an overnight burn, after the stove dropped to 300. The concern is that this was neither intentional nor could it be controlled (since the air control was fully shut down). I am not sure if everyone else is experiencing the same issue. But, how does one control an insert's burn, after the air control is fully closed?

The other question is if the front is cooler vs the back, why would the cracks appear in the front of the stove (where theoretically the integrity of the steel should be stronger because it is cooler)? I am not trying to debate the use of the magnetic thermometers, but I think they are used more for curiosity/characterization vs operation gospel.

What would be good to know are the details of how everyone is running their PE stove (eg. how many cords of wood burned, type of wood, length & diameter of flue, do they feel it is running too hot, etc.). From reviewing the threads, there might be some variation in use (eg. Nic 36 had a cracked Vista Classic that he said only burned one cord a year vs my Pacific burning 5 cords a year).

From what I have heard, there has been a design change, since the 2006-2006 PE were manufactured. Apparently, they no longer weld the stoves at the places where the internal welds let go (primary air/airwash). That might be in recognition that the design was in part responsible for facilitating cracking.

Either way, I hope that we can all find solutions.