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Pellets have arrived at the box stores

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by elkimmeg, Aug 12, 2007.

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  1. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Norwood Ma pellets $269 a ton. Kudos to those who bought early and cheaper. It turned out to be a wise choice.

    Boy is we start the year at $270 per ton the future does not look good..

    More bad news Stainless steel is 2.5x more than last year., About the only price that has come down is construction grade lumber. Insulation only a small increase so far.

    windows /glass increased, all hardware is about 2X more

    I did not see the stoves on display to report on their pricing probably next week or can anyone fill us in on pricing.

    I can go back to Feb last year where I posted the prices to compare..

    Ma dealers how is the tax free weekend helping sales and fill us in on comparison stove pricing from last year?

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  2. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Somebody needs to enlighten me. That is twice I have seen that 2.5X rise in stainless prices here. Stainless prices world wide have been reduced three times this year by the major producers because of decreasing nickel prices and slackening demand.

    Stainless prices are in the crapper and producers are cutting back on production. Methinks liner peddlers are blowing smoke.
  3. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    I have not heard of any price increases on Quadrafire wood stoves. It seems like our prices stay constant until they roll out a new model, then they adjust the price according to production costs. The stuff that changes time to time is the venting. I also have not heard of our SS liners changing in price at all.
  4. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    its not in my usual rice bowl, but i do not think our prices went up this season either and they should be hitting the stores soon, lowes and depot both have moved up ship dates , they want em now!! for the biomass crowd, look at the 10-CPM multi fuel that we are trotting out this year , its gonna be somthing. im gonna have to get on our webbys this thing aint on our website yet , i'll see if i have a picture to post of it
  5. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    here is the 10-CPM (provided i attached it correctly

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  6. KeithO

    KeithO Minister of Fire

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    For the doubting amongst us, here is data on prices paid for stainless steel in North America on a monthly basis.

    It so happens that I work for a company that spends billions a year on stainless steel and this price trend is a major problem (has been for several years). Basically, supply is not keeping up with demand. Countries like China that are rapidly expanding their infrastructure are buying all the steel they can get their hands on. It is time to wake up to the realities of what is going on in China. What they do over there influences our lives over here directly. You wait to see what is going to happen to energy prices and pollution when those chinese start being able to afford cars for the first time. Right now we are only seeing the thin side of the wedge. It won't be long before they are powerfull enough industrially that they start turning their attention towards expanding their territory by force (just like the Europeans and later the American settlers did).

    http://www.meps.co.uk/Stainless Price-N.Amer.htm

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  7. KeithO

    KeithO Minister of Fire

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    The impression I have with regard to wood stove components is that this is a "relatively" small market. I think that with the mild winter last year, sales were down and there is a significant amount of overstock sitting out there that was manufactured more than a year ago. That to me explains why Menards is selling the class A pipe for last years price whereas it is 3x as expensive everywhere else (almost exactly the 2.5x more ?)
  8. HarryBack

    HarryBack New Member

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    not a whole lot of stainless steel in stoves that I am aware of....the pellet pipe, on the other hand, has a larger component which is stainless.......
  9. HarryBack

    HarryBack New Member

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    as for pellet prices, Elk is correct in that the better time to buy was this spring, where a buyer would have saved about $20-$30/ton....although Im pretty sure there were a few posts this spring about exactly that subject :cheese: , but hindsight is 20/20.

    Pellet pricing:

    http://www.woodpelletprice.com/


    Seth, the guy who administers the site, doesnt sell pellets, its unbiased, and he does frequently update the site....so, IMO, the $269/ton is high.....should be $30 or so less......
  10. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Don't forget to report prices here:
    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/fuels

    Wow, stainless has gone out of site. That is a doubling (100% increase) in less than two years AND the price went up quite a bit before that. Dead wholesale stainless is now well over $3.00 a pound according to that chart - it was about $.80 to $1.00 a pound 3 or 4 years ago!

    Of course, there is a lot of speculation about whether some of this is just that YOUR dollar is worth less, as it is with most commodities (oil). If the rest of the world does not like the USA (investment/political climate), and if the government keeps on printing money and spending it, all of our savings get diluted.

    Now might be a good time to own a chromium mine!
  11. KeithO

    KeithO Minister of Fire

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    It depends on costs in your neck of the woods, but for an energy cost comparison, here is a summary that is valid for mid Michigan

    Right now, natural gas beats both corn and pellets, even taking $175/ton for pellets into account. This is prior to adding the cost of delivery and storage for either of the solid fuels. Fortunately, I do have an abundance of almost free wood on hand and I plan on using that this season (and likely in the longer term) until corn prices stabilize.

    I'm guessing that for occasional use, folks may not care much about the cost of fuel (just like regular firewood is expensive in small quantities), but for covering the seasonal heating needs I get the impression that suppliers have adjusted their prices to about the same level as what the energy companies charge. Its a bad move for the long term, since it is going to kill the alternative energy market, excluding die hards that fell their own wood. The entire stove industry that sprang up for corn and pellet heating is in for a major shock at these costs. That is unless the cost of natural gas and other alternatives sees a major hike in price, in which case it would not surprise me to see corn and pellets following suit.

    Cordwood seems the best alternative where supply is up to you.

    Keith

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  12. GVA

    GVA Minister of Fire

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    Oh Boy here we go again.......
    That NG price is that just the cost per therm or with all the other charges added??????
    Here in MASS.... (in the winter) It was $1.84 a therm after all the costs are added in.....
    Depends on what you got in your area.......
  13. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, in any case, $269 a ton picked up a the big box is not really gonna save big $$$ over most other fuels...add in the cost of hauling a few tons a couple times and that fuel is well over $300 in time, money and gas before it gets poured into the stove.

    BUT, it will save the use of fossil fuels! So that is a good thing.

    I think Pellet prices will go up and down this season depending on the usual suspects.....if it stays warm til late and the pipeline builds up, they will sell it cheaper - if the demand is greater than the supply, we'll see $300 again.....and the cycle will continue until everyone gets smart enough to stow away those $200 pellets in the spring!
  14. KeithO

    KeithO Minister of Fire

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    In my case about 80% of the cost listed is for the NG itself and the remaining 20% is the "distribution charge". I get the impression that folks who buy propane are more likely to get gouged.
  15. Shane

    Shane Minister of Fire

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    I haven't checked in 3 months but NG here was .79-.80 per therm INCLUDING all taxes etc. Cheap. Cheaper than pellets and almost cheaper than wood depending if hte wood is free or not.
  16. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    My last NG bill was $1.18 per therm including all other charges. I heard a rumor that the price is going up 10% come Jan. I noticed Fuel King hardwood pellets are selling for $178 per ton at our local Farm & Fleet store and $229 at a local Hearth dealer. The pellet stove dealers around here keep telling me the price of pellets are going to go down due to more plants opening up, but have yet to see this happen.
  17. KeithO

    KeithO Minister of Fire

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    I don't think the direct cost of fuel and whether or not one chooses something other than the cheapest fuel is the key issue here.

    What I am concerned about is that the less economically viable "alternative energy" is, the less will be the general acceptance of the fuel source and the more marginalized this campaign will be. The industry that depends on these fuels is going to suffer since acceptance is going to be slim with the general public, since they are without doubt less convenient. Many people made it through the last winter with corn that was less than $2/bushel. Many of these people will baulk at a doubling of their heating budget. Sales of new corn stoves are down. Sale of 1-2 year old corn stoves is up. Not good signs for those whose livelihood depends on either corn or pellet stoves or both.

    It smacks of profiteering on the part of those who control the corn market and the pellet manufacturers. I wouldn't be surprised if corn farmers are still getting between $2-$2.50 / bushel even now. Maybe less. We know that even with all the new ethanol plants coming on line, it still is a minority demand on this resource. It does give people something to talk about though.... The drought is a more serious issue this year, corn is not in good shape around my home town.
  18. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Somebody hasn't told these folks that I guess. They are getting $3.65 and it is gonna go up.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070723.RIOWA23/TPStory/Business
  19. GVA

    GVA Minister of Fire

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    Reality check here....... corn goes to alot of products beside green giant canned corn.
    Canada has moved most of it's ethanol toward alt fuels...... Hate to say this but certain things are scarce like Canadian Whiskey, (my prediction in 10 years there will be no Seagrams or other canadian whiskies.....)Maybe this is what it will take to make the politicians to take action... Mean while the cost for it will rise..


    The problem locally is pellets seem to follow the same trends as oil and gas.........
  20. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    It will always be that way GVA. In the oil business it is referred to as FOE, fuel oil equivilents. They always rise and fall together be it fuel oil, propane, natural gas, pellets or whatever. Purchased cord wood is pulled right along too.
  21. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    There are other factors controling pellet pricing. Many pellet mills purchase shavings from lumber mills. used to produce construction lumber
    Since the mortage market is suffering and the housing starts have slowed down Less demand for lumber. Less demand then less raw materials for pellet manufacturing.

    Then there are all those stoves bough right after Katrina I believe it added 400,000 to 500, 000 more pellet stoves that are in the market place trying to purchase pellets.

    Supply may not equal demand. It did not in sections of the west coast last year. Finally we are not the only market for pellets , we are competing with Europe for them
  22. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    And with China building pellet stoves, if they start buying mass quantities of pellets, there won't be sawdust left for our stoves.
  23. pelletheat

    pelletheat New Member

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  24. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    And the majority of it going to Europe -

    "We're becoming a Third World nation, exporting our renewable resources," Niebling said.

    Time to start growing hemp again. It would make for fine pellets.
  25. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    Just as an FYI, was up in NH on Friday and stopped in at a Home Despot for some other stuff, happenned to notice that they had a pretty good size display of splitters, wood stoves, and other "get ready for winter" stuff. The splitters looked like pretty typical gas units, fairly decent but nothing fancy, in about the $1500 range. The stoves were Englanders and IIRC the wood stoves were around $600 for a 13-something, so I think that's about the same as I've seen last mentioned from winter.

    Gooserider
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