Question for Woodstock Fireview owners

[wendell]

I guess you probably knew this was coming. ;-)

I would appreciate any comments you may want to share with me as I consider this stove but I have a couple questions I would appreciate your input on. No matter how much research you do I think there are always one or two things you didn't think about or know about that turn out to be a big deal. I would like to avoid that.

-Reading through the reviews, a number of people talked about 3-4 hour burn times which is a far cry from the advertised 10-12. What do you experience in the real world?
-How big a space are you heating with your stove?
-How much wood do you go through in a year?
-I'm not too concerned about running a cat but am concerned I'm going to really miss the secondary burn. I guess it's a little tough to describe a fire but any comments from those who went from EPA non-cat to the fireview would be appreciated.
-What are the benefits to you of having a cat. Why do you like/dislike it.
-Anything else I should know?

Thanks!

 

[Todd]

I guess you probably knew this was coming. ;-)

I would appreciate any comments you may want to share with me as I consider this stove but I have a couple questions I would appreciate your input on. No matter how much research you do I think there are always one or two things you didn't think about or know about that turn out to be a big deal. I would like to avoid that.

-Reading through the reviews, a number of people talked about 3-4 hour burn times which is a far cry from the advertised 10-12. What do you experience in the real world?
-How big a space are you heating with your stove?
-How much wood do you go through in a year?
-I'm not too concerned about running a cat but am concerned I'm going to really miss the secondary burn. I guess it's a little tough to describe a fire but any comments from those who went from EPA non-cat to the fireview would be appreciated.
-What are the benefits to you of having a cat. Why do you like/dislike it.
-Anything else I should know?

Thanks!

Who posted 3-4 hour burn times? Real world with good dry hardwood I get 8-12 hour burns depending on weather conditions. The colder it is outside the shorter the burns since your going to want more heat so you burn hotter. Spring/Fall you can really turn her down and easily get 12+.

I'm heating 1800 sq ft including my basement where the stove is located and have averaged 3 cords of hardwood burning 24/7 from mid Oct to April the last 3 years. This stove takes care of 90-95% of my heating needs and I think with a little more basement insulation it will do even better.

The flames are surprisingly active and lively with many secondary bursts and lazy orange/blue colors. Non cats do have a more active secondary burn but I don't think they last as long.

Benefits of a cat is longer burns, even heat and less wood usage, I went from 4 cords with non cat to 3 cords with cat and house is warmer. Some people say maintenance is a pain, but not with this stove, lift lid, pull out cat and brush or vacuume fly ash, it takes 5 minutes max. The cost of a new cat is a wash as far as i'm concerned since it saves you in the wood pile.

 

[wendell]

Thanks, Todd. This is getting tempting! There were actually several of the reviews that said 3-4 hours which really surprised from what I've seen in various threads. NIce to know about the reduced wood usage, especially if I decide to use the Morso upstairs for supplemental heat.

 

[Slow1]

I have not yet burned in mine - just finished the install two days ago, waiting on inspection then some cooler weather to do the initial burns to smell up the house...

However, the only references I recall to 2-3 hours were some folks saying they would load every 2-3 hours during peak burn periods to keep temps maxed - but I believe the same threads indicated that these folks were not FULLY loading the stove each time - i.e. it was more like toss a few spits on each time. Hopefully actual users will jump in here.

When I called Woodstock Co and asked about it, I did get the usual "really depends on a lot of factors" answer. The main point I got out of the conversation was that you will have heat from the stove for a long time due to the thermal mass of all that stone even when the fire is no longer burning, this also keeps the firebox good and hot so coals can sit well and are likely to be easier to relight quite some time as well.

So then we get into the question of what is your definition of burn time - is this the time from match light until last ember is out or the time that the stove is putting out useful heat? I like the "useful heat" definition, then you have the second debate of just how hot does the stove have to be (and where do you measure it) to be "useful" - certainly during shoulder season you don't need/want it as hot as you would when trying to maintain a 90+* temperature differential between outside/inside.

You may want to search for the thread where I was asking "why wouldn't you want to buy a fireview" - basically I was seeking negative comments from anyone who had direct experience with this stove. Apparently there are a few things that folks don't like about it but none of those affected my decision to buy. I have not seen anyone complain about the burn time on this stove not meeting expectations, however if you are really looking for maximum burn time the stove that comes to mind is the BKK - that seems to have the standard for maximum burn time.

 

[DiscoInferno]

From what I've seen so far the amount of flame activity in the Fireview depends a lot on the air control, as you can set it low enough that there is no flame. Whereas a non-cat always has the secondary air on full I think, and a "low" burn there still involves plenty of flame. Also, the Fireview window is on the small side. (I think? It's smaller than my Ultima, but probably about the same as the Napoleon.) Those are about the only two potentially negative things I can say about it at this point. It's a fair trade for greater efficiency and heat retention I think.

 

[Todd]

Good point slow1, if you go by most manufactures burn times of down to the last coal the Fireview could go 24 hours. I think of burn time as a good enough coal bed to just reload a full load of regular sized splits without the use of kindling and a stove top temp of 200-300.

 

[wendell]

I don't know if you can tell from my avatar, but my stove sits at an angle into that corner. Will the Fireview work there with the side loading?

Also, is there no front door, just the side door? I guess you have to let the stove go completely out to clean the glass?

And, since there is a rear exit, I would have to immediately have a 90 go up, then the 90 you see and of course the 90 going up the chimney. Sounds like 1 too many 90's to me. Or do they take that into account with the design of the stove?

 

[DiscoInferno]

The Fireview can be installed in a corner, it requires 18" clearance from the corners to the walls without the rear heat shield and pipe shield, or 12" with.

The manual allows 3 90's in the connector pipe, so I assume 2 90's in the pipe and one in the chimney is fine also. It doesn't seem to be a terribly draft-sensitive stove - I'm using a direct-connect into a relatively short 8" chimney and it drafted fine on a 75 degree day.

 

[Slow1]

Good point slow1, if you go by most manufactures burn times of down to the last coal the Fireview could go 24 hours. I think of burn time as a good enough coal bed to just reload a full load of regular sized splits without the use of kindling and a stove top temp of 200-300.

So, for the record - when you get your 8-12 hour burn times, do you "load it to the gills" i.e. pack it in as tight as you can, comfortably fill it until you can't add more splits, or just put a certain number of splits on?

Also, when you say you are 'heating 1800 sqft' - to what house temperature do you generally try and maintain inside? I ask this as some folks around here seem to have an 80* internal house temp standard vs the other extreme here where my wife will actually complain if it gets up to 70 so I aim for 68 with stove, used to set the oil at 63 during the day...

 

[Todd]

Good point slow1, if you go by most manufactures burn times of down to the last coal the Fireview could go 24 hours. I think of burn time as a good enough coal bed to just reload a full load of regular sized splits without the use of kindling and a stove top temp of 200-300.

So, for the record - when you get your 8-12 hour burn times, do you "load it to the gills" i.e. pack it in as tight as you can, comfortably fill it until you can't add more splits, or just put a certain number of splits on?

Also, when you say you are 'heating 1800 sqft' - to what house temperature do you generally try and maintain inside? I ask this as some folks around here seem to have an 80* internal house temp standard vs the other extreme here where my wife will actually complain if it gets up to 70 so I aim for 68 with stove, used to set the oil at 63 during the day...

Yep, loaded to the gills packed tight for the long burns.

Since my stove is in the basement I get uneven temps throughout the house, so it's usually 80 around the stove room and 70-75 upstairs on an average winter day.

 

[Todd]

I don't know if you can tell from my avatar, but my stove sits at an angle into that corner. Will the Fireview work there with the side loading?

Also, is there no front door, just the side door? I guess you have to let the stove go completely out to clean the glass?

And, since there is a rear exit, I would have to immediately have a 90 go up, then the 90 you see and of course the 90 going up the chimney. Sounds like 1 too many 90's to me. Or do they take that into account with the design of the stove?

Woodstock will build the door on the left side if you want or you could do an angled install. They also say don't count that elbow on the stove collar, it's pretty much part of the stove. I have the same amount of 90's you would have and the draft is great, this stove does not seem draft sensitive at all.

I've never seen a stove where the glass stays so clean. I clean my glass maybe once per month, could probably go less, I just wipe it with a damp paper towel.

 

[pinewoodburner]

Last year was my first year with the Fireview.
Burned about 2 cords of wood.
Heated 1800 sq ft, poorly insulated.
Room with the stove was 76, the rest of the house in the upper 60's
In the coldest part of the winter I loaded up 3 times a day
Loaded in the morning at 6:30 am and then at 5 pm and then at 11pm.
At the 5pm loading, usually all the wood was burned but there where alot of coals, and the stove was still at 250 degrees
Hope this helps.

 

[Vic99]

I've burned my new Fireview during April. Haven't really pushed it, but so far so good.

Going from a Hearthstone non-CAT I can rate the Hearthstone an "A" for the fire display. Really dynamic, just excellent to watch the burn tubes shoot air that create jets of flame that wash over the inside of the glass of that large window. The Fireview is interesting too, but it is more of a B/B- because the window is much smaller and the flame is not as lively. People have come into my house and have been very impressed with the Hearthstone. The Fireview gives some cool aurora type effects, but so can the Hearthstone.

One disadvantage of the Fireview, so everyone seems to say, is that the Fireview is less forgiving being a CAT stove if your wood is less than optimum. Last year, for example, about 1/3 of my wood was wetter than it should have been. Part of this was due to really rainy weather and part due to where I stacked it. The Hearthstone did okay with this as I mixed in some kiln dried lumber. This year should be okay, because my hardwoods will have 18 months of seasoning and my pine 10 months.

Based on what I've burned, I'd say that the Fireview will meet my heat expectations . . . but won't know til December. I expect more out of my stove now that I have just had 2 lb closed cell spray foam insulation blown into half of the first floor and have replaced all of windows with Andersons. I like low 70's temps, wife likes high 70s.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

There isn't much to add to what has been posted so far but I'll try. But I admit that I do not recall any posts with 2-3 or 3-4 hour burns. Burn time depends so much on what type of wood you burn, how well it is seasoned and how cold it is outdoors. But 3-4 hour burn time is a bit ridiculous.

For a very even heat, 8 hours is good; that is, we find in the dead of winter that if we reload in 8 hours the house temperature does not vary much which is what we like (we keep the house around 80 degrees). I know with wood heat the prevalent theory is that if you heat with wood the indoor temperature will vary a lot. It does with most people. If we heated like most, ours would vary a lot. For instance, if we waited in the morning to load the stove when there were just a few coals, we'd freeze. But we reload when there are many coals in the morning. To burn down the coals we wait until afternoon or the warmest part of the day. This is not always necessary but sometimes you just have to burn those coals down. But to simply shovel them out of the stove as some do is a waste of fuel.

The post hasn't yet been made, but it no doubt will as we have a running battle on this. Is the Fireview easy to operate? Or is it complicated? When heating with wood, on reloads you should open the draft full to get the moisture evaporated and get the wood burning good. Then the draft is closed a bit else all the heat goes up the chimney. The Fireview is no different.

However, the Fireview also has a cat and that is where some get the idea it is complicated. Here is the operation of the cat. When reloading the stove, you open the draft as stated. At the same time you also move that little lever which closes off the cat. Then after 10-15 minutes (usually about when you turn the draft down), you simply move that little lever again. That's it! Not too complicated as even a child can do it.

Cleaning the cat must be done ever so often. Todd states 5 minutes but it need not take even that long. Probably 2 minutes is about all it takes us.

Cleaning the glass window. It has to be done every so often but not very often. And the glass is big enough to give you a good view of the dancing flames. True, on some parts of the burn there will be no flame at all, but when that flame is in view, it is beautiful. Different.

Fuel: The most important part of any wood stove! When using a stove with a cat., I fear what might happen with unseasoned wood. For our part we don't have that worry but after reading so many posts on this forum about wood problems, I wonder... One could probably burn some wetter wood without using the cat but that would not be using the stove as designed and you would not get as much heat.

I will state after using our Fireview for two winters that we now use about 50% of the fuel we used to use and we also stay much warmer. That is a blessing. We used to go through 6-7 cords and both winters with the Fireview we have burned around 3 cords.

On the operation and maintenance of the stove, it is simple enough that a child could do it and the wife has no problems operating it.

Also, the stove burns so clean that we still have not cleaned the chimney after 2 years burning.


I also agree that the 90 degree elbows are no problem as long as the horizontal section has 1/4" raise per foot. We gave ours even more than 1/4" and we have a fairly long horizontal and no problems.


I'm having a problem getting my mind in gear this morning. If I think of more I'll post later. I hope this helps Wendall.

 

[wendell]

It does, Dennis, thank you.

What are the dimensions of the glass?

Does anyone have a picture of the stove with charcoal trim? I was thinking black but wonder if the charcoal would actually look better. I only found one picture on their site but the stove is kind of far away and hard to tell how it looks.

 

[Slow1]

It does, Dennis, thank you.

What are the dimensions of the glass?

Does anyone have a picture of the stove with charcoal trim? I was thinking black but wonder if the charcoal would actually look better. I only found one picture on their site but the stove is kind of far away and hard to tell how it looks.

If you just look at the rectangular section of the glass you can measure it as about 13" wide by 6 1/2" tall (i.e. if you were trying to just get the largest possible rectangle in there), but then if you go to the peak from the bottom it is 9" tall. Thus, the extra 'curvy' bit on top adds quite a bit to the visual size of the window.

As to seeing a stove configured as you like - call them and I bet they will either send you pictures or perhaps find someone in your area willing to show off their stove. They are a very interesting company to deal with - I was surprised.

 

[Flatbedford]

There are some more pictures here.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/soapstone/
My wife and I went with the custom forest green.

The green goes great with the natural color of the stone

I bought and installed my Fireview in May this year. We've only done two small burns. What is most impressive to me is how warm the stove was hours after a small burn of only some kindling and a couple small splits. The fire probably burned out around midnight, but the stove was still warm at 9am. Another thing not brought up here about these stoves is they are beautiful things to look at. We went to the factory and picked out the stones for our stove. It is like having a piece of semi custom furniture.
Call Woodstock and ask them all your questions. They are all very friendly and helpful and can answer any question you have. If you do buy one, you will be buying a mostly hand crafted, well built, American made stove.

 

[Bobbin]

We have a Fireview in our home. We live on the second floor and use it to keep 1300 sq.ft. of living area as cozy as we want. Our home is well insulated and has an open layout with a southerly exposure. I have only rarely "packed" the stove and that's been during an extended power outtage. Generally we start a fire with left over coals first thing in the morning (5 AM) using 5-6 good sized splits and let it die down while we're at work. I will rekindle the fire when I get home around mid afternoon, using coals. We'll feed it 2-4 splits around suppertime and reload it before bed but never really stuff the stove with wood because we don't need to. We use a cord/cord and a half over the course of the heating season. The temperature in the "apartment" is in the low 70s.

I have a Classic in my studio that only came into service last season. It will be used basically the same way and again, the building is well insulated and very tight. I have had trouble with good draw out there and have set off the smoke detector a couple of times, cracking a window is mandatory when starting the stove right now and I have to work on that. (Woodsmoke and fabric are a bad combination).

As for viewing the fire... personally I don't really care that much about it. The fire is very pretty when the Fireview is running smoothly and as others have mentioned there are times when there are no "dancing flames". I have always preferred the look of the Classic over the Fireview but we purchased the latter first because the old man insisted on it. He was shocked that I chose the Classic for my own space, but the styling of it reminds me more of the ceramic tile "thermal mass" stoves so common in Scandinavian, German, Austrian or Russina palaces where viewing the fire was not as important heat was. It suits my taste more.

 

[jdinspector]

Last year was my first year with the Fireview.
Burned about 2 cords of wood.
Heated 1800 sq ft, poorly insulated.
Room with the stove was 76, the rest of the house in the upper 60's
In the coldest part of the winter I loaded up 3 times a day
Loaded in the morning at 6:30 am and then at 5 pm and then at 11pm.
At the 5pm loading, usually all the wood was burned but there where alot of coals, and the stove was still at 250 degrees
Hope this helps.

This is close to my experience too. My stove was only installed in March, so I didn't have a full winter with it. However, I noticed that it would have 250-300 temps in the morning (6-7 am), if I filled it at 10 pm the previous night. I do recall a cold Saturday when it was clear that this stove uses a lot less than my old VC Resolute Acclaim. I was lazing around and kept expecting to have to fill the stove, but didn't need to "mind" it nearly as much. I'm expecting about 2/3 usage compared to the 5 cords I pushed through the VC last year running 24/7. Anything more will be a bonus.

 

[rickw]

I've got one season with the FV. The things that are said about it are true. It will go for very long periods between reloads, depending on heat required and wood used. During milder weather 2 reloads/day works fine, in the colder/windier times you might need 3. I think the advantage of the cat is greatest at low heat output, with good wood a burn can stretch way over 12 hours. What this means practically is that you just keep throwing wood into it, and have to light a fire only when you clean it out (I did it every 2 weeks). Last year I burned dry oak, this spring I scrounged a lot of ice-storm pine so will probably need more frequent loading.

The cat and long burns result in ease of use. 2 or 3 times a day you open up the door and throw in some more wood. Splits, no kindling. Wait a few minutes a adjust the air and engage the cat. This is hard? Any stove you have to wait a few minutes and adjust the air.

I burned about 60% of the wood that I did with the old stove (Lopi Answer).

Robust materials, nice to look at. About the only way to go wrong would be if you need lots and lots of heat. In that case I'd recommend a Blaze King.

I can only recall one person on this board unsatisfied with the stove. He had a huge heating requirement due to less than ideal insulation and a very windy location.

 

[Bobbin]

I would like to return to the topic of aesthetics. I know many of the "hard core" guys here will roll their eyes at the seemingly "frou-frou" nature of it but it's important! and it's one of the reasons we decided to purchase a Woodstock in the first place.

I work in trade related to home decor/interior design so style and aethetics are very important to me. Many of my customers come into my living space to view my work. When the husband said we'd buy a yard sale special to fulfill our woodstove needs I was adamant that we would NOT. I told him any stove in MY living room had to pass the "aesthetics test" as well as be up to date, safe, and use fuel efficiently. I was all about the enamelled stoves at that time, thinking an ivory one would be perfect in the room (still do think that! and love the look of Jotuls). I finally persuaded him to go stove shopping and he was typically ambivilent about the ones that caught my eye. He saw the Fireview and remarked, "now that's a good lookin' stove". I agreed and nearly fell over when I saw the price relative to the stoves I liked. OK! time for a serious money discussion and we decided to save longer and buy something he loved and that fit my requirements, too.

I can honestly say that all these years later (our Fireview is now nearly 18 yrs. old) I've never regretted saving longer for its purchase. It complements our decor and inherited furniture perfectly. It's subtle, gracious, and even in the "off season" its presence pleases us. It's important to remember that the woodstove remains in the room even when it's not in use and therefore should be chosen with the same care you'd give to a furniture purchase. I return to this topic because many women object to stoves on the basis of "looks" and because they are generally the ones who clean up the debris trail and are forced to deal with feeding it during the day. My father chose a stove that was too homely for words. My mother loathed it and I didn't blame her. She refused to have anything to do with it for years and after my father died it was the first thing to go, lol. Aesthetics are important!

Had Woodstock offered something in the size range of the Palladian or Keystone that was more subtley and classically inspired I'd have purchased that for my studio since the space falls directly into the size range those 2 stoves are designed to heat. The Classic is overkill for the space, but in that case my choice came down to AESTHETICS.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I've got one season with the FV. The things that are said about it are true. It will go for very long periods between reloads, depending on heat required and wood used. During milder weather 2 reloads/day works fine, in the colder/windier times you might need 3. I think the advantage of the cat is greatest at low heat output, with good wood a burn can stretch way over 12 hours. What this means practically is that you just keep throwing wood into it, and have to light a fire only when you clean it out (I did it every 2 weeks). Last year I burned dry oak, this spring I scrounged a lot of ice-storm pine so will probably need more frequent loading.

The cat and long burns result in ease of use. 2 or 3 times a day you open up the door and throw in some more wood. Splits, no kindling. Wait a few minutes a adjust the air and engage the cat. This is hard? Any stove you have to wait a few minutes and adjust the air.

I burned about 60% of the wood that I did with the old stove (Lopi Answer).

Robust materials, nice to look at. About the only way to go wrong would be if you need lots and lots of heat. In that case I'd recommend a Blaze King.

I can only recall one person on this board unsatisfied with the stove. He had a huge heating requirement due to less than ideal insulation and a very windy location.

Rick, I'm wondering about that statement that you clean out the stove every 2 weeks and then have to light a fire? Why is this necessary for you?

We usually start burning 24/7 by late October or early November and find no need of shutting down the stove to clean it out until the heating season is over the following May (or June sometimes). We do let the stove cool down a bit when checking the cat but that is only once or twice during the heating season. We do not let the stove cool all the way; just wear welding gloves to lift out the cat for a quick cleaning (which takes a couple of minutes) then get the stove going once again.

 

[Todd]

One other thing I'd like to mention is the upgrade of the Fireview. I have heard from people that work there they are working on a secondary air mix to increase efficiency even more and so far test results have been great. A 10% increase in BTU's and even less GPH. I wonder if it will be ready by Fall? You might want to ask them if you can have the new and improved Fireview? Even if it's not ready they stated that it would retro fit the exsisting Fireview's and be a easy do it yourself upgrade. Since the combustion air runs through the fire box baffle i wonder if they are just drilling holes somewhere to release a secondary burn?

 

[Slow1]

One other thing I'd like to mention is the upgrade of the Fireview. I have heard from people that work there they are working on a secondary air mix to increase efficiency even more and so far test results have been great. A 10% increase in BTU's and even less GPH. I wonder if it will be ready by Fall? You might want to ask them if you can have the new and improved Fireview? Even if it's not ready they stated that it would retro fit the exsisting Fireview's and be a easy do it yourself upgrade. Since the combustion air runs through the fire box baffle i wonder if they are just drilling holes somewhere to release a secondary burn?

Ahh yes, the mysterious and wonderful upgrade

I too have heard persistent rumors of this, but when I asked about it during my visit I didn't get much traction on the subject so I made my decision without considering this - IF it comes through it would be quite a nice bonus indeed. Like all rumors, it does seem to be better and better each time I hear about it. I'm sure it will be very interesting to see what they do come up with and how it is done - I do rather hope it is an easy retrofit and offered at a reasonable cost to current owners assuming it is worthwhile to do.

 

[fire_man]

I bought a fireview last Summer and ran it 24/7 from October thru April.

We heated a 2200 square foot house (two floors) with average insulation. It got down to 20 degrees F with no need for supplemental heat from the burner and kept the house near 65 degrees. A bigger stove would have been nice, but the only other one I would have considered was the Blaze King, but my wife did not want a steel stove (she will only accept the looks of cast iron or stone).

The stove burned about 4 chords for the year.

I like the cat because I know I get a longer burn time since I can choke it back further than a non cat but still keep cranking out heat. Disadvantage to cat is I have to be more careful not to burn wet wood since this can crack the catalyst. I used to burn a non-cat Vermont Casting Resolute (1985 vintage). It heated great but constantly clogged the flue with creosote - it was awful. The smoke choked me when I was outside. The fireview is much cleaner - almost no creosote in the flue, just a fine light soot.

I get 8-10 hour burns with temps at 500F for first 3-4 hours then it dies down to 250F after 8-10 hours. Reloading too often caused too many coals that are hard to burn down - its best to let the stove complete the its natural 8-10 cycle after fully loading it. I have no idea how anyone can only get 3-4 hour burn time from this stove unless they are only counting 500 F temperatures.

We are thrilled with the stove - and Woodstock was great to deal with.