Ready to Join The Gang - Time For a Wood Stove!

[Log Splitter]

I guess the last "general" type of question I have is, outside of aesthetics, what factors should I consider when choosing between wood burning stove and insert? If they both fit, and they both look good, what else is there to consider?

I know fan noise is a concern for some inserts.

What about radiant vs convection heat? Will the actual feel of the different types of heat be noticeable when the closest we'll be sitting is 10+ feet away when watching tv, and most other times further?

Any other factors we should be considering when picking between stove and insert?

 

[begreen]

The more a stove projects out onto the hearth the better it will radiate heat. This can be important in a power outage. Fan access is important. Some are a pain to get to and some are easy to service and keep clean. With any stove clearances to combustibles like the mantel are important. Also important with a freestander in a fireplace is the location of the flue outlet aligning with the liner. Not all freestanding stoves have the flue outlet at the far rear of the stove.

 

[Log Splitter]

If the fireplace alcove is big enough, and you plan to sit the stove deep inside the alcove and not out on the hearth, are you basically losing the benefit of the radiant heat of a stove, and might as well go with an insert? Or is there more to it than that

 

[gregbesia]

Another factor to consider: cat versus non cat stoves. Look up Blaze King and what they have to offer, then come back here and check the reviews. Me personally, God willing I will be trying one of Blaze King inserts in the future. I think in this climate and size of a house , low and slow burn of a cat stove would work very well.

 

[begreen]

If the fireplace alcove is big enough, and you plan to sit the stove deep inside the alcove and not out on the hearth, are you basically losing the benefit of the radiant heat of a stove, and might as well go with an insert? Or is there more to it than that

I suppose it could get to an eventual wash especially if the stove was not too efficient and the insert was exceptionally efficient. If there's room the back of the fireplace can be insulated to keep more heat in the room together with the block-off plate.

 

[begreen]

Another factor to consider is cleaning. Some stoves are a piece of cake to clean the liner because the baffle is easily removed or there is a bypass that allows chimney soot to drop straight down into the firebox. Some other stoves/inserts are not too easy.

 

[Log Splitter]

Another factor to consider is cleaning. Some stoves are a piece of cake to clean the liner because the baffle is easily removed or there is a bypass that allows chimney soot to drop straight down into the firebox. Some other stoves/inserts are not too easy.

Besides sifting through people's post about specific stoves, is there a certain spec I should look for in regards to cleaning? I would definitely put a major plus on the ease of being able to use some sort of bypass to clean from top down directly into firebox.

 

[begreen]

Unfortunately baffle removal is sometimes not documented, but check the stove manual to see if this is covered under the maintenance or baffle installation section. The Enerzone has a 2 part, c-cast ceramic baffle which comes out fairly easily by removing the front secondary tube.

 

[Log Splitter]

I think my first step is to decide stove vs insert. Then I can create a list of the few I like and get some opinions.

What are the thoughts on radiant vs convection heat? Does it have a noticeable difference of feel when not standing right next to it? I don't see us ever being closer than 10 feet except when working with it.

 

[Ashful]

A radiant stove, like any traditional cast Jotul model, will not work when placed in a fireplace. The masonry will soak up damn near 100% of the energy they radiate, radiating the majority of that outdoors. If you wonder how I know this, look at my sig.


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[Log Splitter]

A radiant stove, like any traditional cast Jotul model, will not work when placed in a fireplace. The masonry will soak up damn near 100% of the energy they radiate, radiating the majority of that outdoors. If you wonder how I know this, look at my sig.

Talk about a large fireplace! Now I understand your post from before!

And yes, I guess that makes sense. If it's going to sit back and I'm not going to sit out on hearth, then I'm losing that radiant benefit for the stove. At that point, there's really no reason to go stove, and it seems like it would actually be more efficient to go with an insert that can circulate that heat to the room before it's lost to the masonry.

 

[begreen]

Ashful could park a SmartCar in his larger fireplace.

 

[Log Splitter]

Way to exaggerate. Oh wait. He actually could!

What I'll do is stop with the 101 random assorted questions, put together a final list of inserts I find interesting based on my personal goals for my insert, and then get some fellow forum members opinions.

 

[Log Splitter]

I have narrowed down the search to 6 brands, 12 models. Many just the same thing, in varying sizes

I think at this point, it probably comes down to what size do I need, and design preference preferred as they all should perform well.

So maybe this is more of a "don't get this one" because it's notorious for having a bad issue, than "pick this because I like this brand". Also a "this one is good"

One last time, here are the basics of what I'm looking for.

- 1200 sq ft home, 60 miles North of New York City
- 1960s build with no improvements to insulation since.
- Standard Ranch Build. Fireplace sits on end of home in living room. 3 Bedrooms are on other end down a hallway.

- Would like to be able to heat entire upstairs
- Plan to run as much as possible (24/7) to cut oil usage.
- Would like nice size window for viewing fire

ALL INSERTS:

Napoleon EPI3C

Regency H2100
Regency CI2600

Osburn 2200
Osburn 2400
Osburn Matrix

Jotul C 450 Kennebec CF
Jotul C 550 Rockland CF

PE Neo 2.5
PE Alderlea T5
PE Super Insert

Enviro Venice 1700

Thanks to all who have offered advice/suggestions. Information overload over the past few weeks, but I love it!

 

[Ashful]

If it's going to sit back and I'm not going to sit out on hearth, then I'm losing that radiant benefit for the stove. At that point, there's really no reason to go stove, and it seems like it would actually be more efficient to go with an insert that can circulate that heat to the room before it's lost to the masonry.

You got the idea, but I wouldn't go as fast and hard as that, on a ruling. Any stove with a convective jacket around the firebox can work very well in a fireplace, as these stoves move a much larger amount of their net energy using convection. I believe the Pacific Energy T5 fits this bill, as does the Blaze King Ashford. In fact, I thought the Jotul F55 Carrabassett shared this construction, but I guess I've never looked. You would NOT want an Oslo, Firelight, or any of the traditional cast Jotuls, as these are almost purely radiant heaters.

On my fireplaces, these are odd layouts. My family has been in this area for more than 320 years, and we have owned many (maybe most?) of the old pre-revolutionary houses you will find around here. Most have cooking fireplaces that are very wide, perhaps 8 to 10 feet, but very shallow. The ones in this house are different, in that they're very deep (one is 4 feet deep!), but only five feet wide. Each has a thimble above the lintel, one of which I am 100% convinced to be original construction. Our theory is that this house, the majority of which was built in 1770's, was built to be equipped with the then-new cast-iron cookstoves. They weren't quite ready to give up 100% on their cooking fireplaces, but they shrunk them and equipped them with thimbles, and likely set a cookstove directly in front of the fireplace.

 

[Log Splitter]

The ones in this house are different, in that they're very deep (one is 4 feet deep!), but only five feet wide.

Seems like these would have been great hiding places as a kid! But the real serious question is, have you ever actually tried to park your smart car in one of them?

As for the insert vs stove, another reason after talking more with the wife becomes the unavoidable "wife approval factor". With this being one of the first things you'll see when walking into the house, she'd rather more of a seamless piece integrated into the wall rather than an alcove with a stove sitting in it.

Working with that list of 12 do you think there are any you'd immediately remove from the list, or put towards the top?

 

[Ashful]

I'll leave the answer to that last question to the real stove model experts, like begreen. I can only add that of the brands listed, Jotul and PE are premium brands, near the top of the arc in non-cat performance and quality.

Smart car? I don't drive anything with less than 8 cylinders.

 

[Texas123]

Ashful could park a SmartCar in his larger fireplace.

Ashful you could probably put a small cook stove in one of your fireplaces.

 

[Log Splitter]

Any thoughts on the PE Neo 2.5? I've read on a few threads here some good things.

- It's a PE so that's a plus
- Seems that a 2.5 cubic feet should be a sufficient size
- Sits nice and high and has a great window to view fire

Any additional thoughts on this one?

 

[begreen]

Do you mean the insert? It's a flush unit. In the 2.5 cu ft size the Enviro Kodiak 1700 may heat better, especially during a power outage. The PE Super insert would also work well.

 

[Log Splitter]

Do you mean the insert? It's a flush unit. In the 2.5 cu ft size the Enviro Kodiak 1700 may heat better, especially during a power outage. The PE Super insert would also work well.

Any reason you recommend the Super Insert over the Alderlea T5 besides price?

Another reason I was a fan of the Neo was the N/S and E/W loading capabilities too.

I'm not too concerned about power outages here. They're few and far between where we live.

Begreen, are you a strong proponent of the non-flush inserts that sit out on the hearth?

 

[begreen]

Any reason you recommend the super insert over the Alderlea T5?

No, just cost. The Alderlea is a good looker. I like non-flush inserts because the heat better with the blower off which can be prefered when in the room and I like inserts that have an ashlip. It helps stop ash from being sucked into the blower. That said I really like the look of the Enviro Boston and it does not have a large ashlip.

The Super and T5 both have square fireboxes.

 

[brenndatomu]

she'd rather more of a seamless piece integrated into the wall rather than an alcove with a stove sitting in it.

You need to show her some of the pics of what people have done with alcoves...phenomenal! I'll see if I can find a link...if anybody else knows where those are right off the bat, feel free to post it.

 

[Log Splitter]

No, just cost. The Alderlea is a good looker. I like non-flush inserts because the heat better with the blower off which can be prefered when in the room and I like inserts that have an ashlip. It helps stop ash from being sucked into the blower. That said I really like the look of the Enviro Boston and it does not have a large ashlip.

The Super and T5 both have square fireboxes.

So on the same principles as mentioned before, and under consideration of size of house, poor insulation, and location, what are your thoughts on the Super Insert vs the Summit? They seem to be comparable in design besides size.

You need to show her some of the pics of what people have done with alcoves...phenomenal! I'll see if I can find a link...if anybody else knows where those are right off the bat, feel free to post it.

I know, I have seen a few! But I think a big part was also the fact that it seems that if I stick it deep back into the alcove, I'm not going to get the radiant heat benefit anyway. Ashful has said that sitting one back deep into the fireplace would be a big mistake.

 

[begreen]

I like big, especially if the house is going to be cold and need a large push of heat, but the Super is a good performer.