Started as stove talk now thread about marriage, etc...

[Caw]

You did ask before, and I gave a wishy-washy answer, because I really don't know. I hadn't been doing a good job of keeping track from which row the wood came, when I moved it from those wood racks in my wood lot, up to the house for burning. Also, because I'm very inconsistent in my split size (I guess my attitude on this varies by month/year), and because each rack contains a different species, there are really too many variables for me to be confident in any conclusion I could give today.

BUT... do note I'm not 3 or 4 rows deep, either. The sheds are open on both faces, which was by design, both for airflow and easily accessibility. So it's not only a "blow thru" design, but also means no row of wood is more than "second row" deep from either side. Here's a goofy photo of one of them on the move from where I build them at my shop, down the hill to the wood lot where they're installed on piers, and you can see it's totally open on all sides, just a roof over four rows.

View attachment 323626

No, the wheels don't stay on it. That's just an old boat trailer axle I use for moving heavy things around the yard.

My advice to anyone is to make all sheds no more than 2 rows deep from any accessible side, lest you need to walk into them to retrieve wood. As it is now, I park my wagon next to the shed and literally dump wood right off the stack into the wagon.

View attachment 323625



They do, and as noted the low temperature limit has been trending downward over the years. They become horribly inefficient and terribly expensive to run at very cold temperatures, but if that's only a few days per year, that temporary high operating cost may still be less than the cost of installing or repairing a secondary system.

My new storage area is 3 stacks deep but it's exposed on the back side. It's just got a pallet holding it up which has plenty of slats. The wide open side faces the prevailing winds so it should get good airflow though the entire rack. I could remove the back pallets if I find it's not good enough but they provide nice stability to the structure. I'm never going to be accessing it from the back side as it gets really wet over there. I built it on a retaining wall area adjacent to our wetlands. It just gets muddy on the other side of the wall.

 

[Caw]

Oh, and my "plan" is 3 summers CSS'd. However, because last year was so stupid warm, and because I was doing a little re-arranging that had me burning a few cords out of sequence last year, most of what I've been burning this year has been seasoned 4 summers.

This is what I'm referring to btw. I think it'll be fine 3 rows deep after 3 years. Plenty of room for air circulation. That rack in front of it will be gone in a month. I just enjoy discussing:

 

[Caw]

I guess theoretically I don't need the back pallets. I could get even more air circulation that way but it's nice having bays to just stack the wood in. It's a lot easier. It also provides a lot of support to the divider and end pallets in the structure. I'm kind of torn which is better tbh. I guess we'll see in 3 years.

Edit - perhaps a middle of the road solution is to simply remove every other slat from the back pallets. Gain more circulation while maintaining the structural bonus.

 

[Ashful]

Hey Ash, curious as to why you put the roof rafters. parallel to the peak?

The picture is deceiving. The actual rafters are little 2x3's notched to sit over those purlins you can see in that photo. As to why I went this way, I wanted something to strongly tie the vertical studs together, so the wood stacked within wouldn't push them outward. That dictated which way the studs were turned, and thus those purlins running parallel with the ridge as ties between the studs.

In any case, here's a photo that shows the rafters. Since max span between purlins is only something like 8 inches, there's no need for more than a 2x3 rafter, even with notching. I made a fixture/jig for my large radial arm saw that let me notch something like 8 rafters at a time, in a single pass, the whole assembly process was very production-line oriented. The first shed took me a few days, but the last three were like a day and a half each.



Note, this one was installed onto the piers before I put the roof on, simply because it was built in the heat of the summer, and putting the roof on down by the woods was cooler than doing it on my asphalt driveway in front of the shop. The others were all fully-built in front of the shop, before being moved down to the wood lot.

I can also see this is the one that was built with regular KD 2x6 purlins, whereas the other three sheds got PT 2x6 purlins. I think it was mid-COVID, and finding 2x6x16 PT was becoming a problem, right at that time. Carpenter bees will be their enemy, but I've also seen those bastards attack plenty of pressure treated wood, too.

 

[Ashful]

I guess theoretically I don't need the back pallets. I could get even more air circulation that way but it's nice having bays to just stack the wood in. It's a lot easier. It also provides a lot of support to the divider and end pallets in the structure. I'm kind of torn which is better tbh. I guess we'll see in 3 years.

My old setup was basically identical to yours, but without the back pallets. I used to keep 30 cords of CSS'd wood on hand, using this. It worked great, other than the black plastic I'd cover stuff with in winter was never as durable as I'd like, and the forever replacing pallets really wore on me after awhile.

Just came across an interesting "transition era" photo, which must've been taken just as I was building the first few new sheds, and phasing out the pallet racks:

 

[Caw]

My old setup was basically identical to yours, but without the back pallets. I used to keep 30 cords of CSS'd wood on hand, using this. It worked great, other than the black plastic I'd cover stuff with in winter was never as durable as I'd like, and the forever replacing pallets really wore on me after awhile.

Just came across an interesting "transition era" photo, which must've been taken just as I was building the first few new sheds, and phasing out the pallet racks:

View attachment 323633

Oh that's an interesting way to support the divider pallets just strapping a 2x4 to it front and back. That would be plenty of support. I've only made 2 bays so far it would be very easy to me to remove the backs and just add bracing like that. I think that'll get me better drying. It'll be a touch more annoying to stack but probably worth it for added drying. Replacing pallets is whatever for me. They are free and I'm only keeping 12 cords. Easy enough to replace them as I cycle through.

 

[Caw]

My old setup was basically identical to yours, but without the back pallets. I used to keep 30 cords of CSS'd wood on hand, using this. It worked great, other than the black plastic I'd cover stuff with in winter was never as durable as I'd like, and the forever replacing pallets really wore on me after awhile.

Just came across an interesting "transition era" photo, which must've been taken just as I was building the first few new sheds, and phasing out the pallet racks:

View attachment 323633

Did you do 3 rows or just 2 on your pallets. I really think 3 will be fine with both sides exposed. Love the wood lot.

Sorry for thread jacking Matt but I feel it's relevant for your storage too!

 

[bigealta]

The picture is deceiving. The actual rafters are little 2x3's notched to sit over those purlins you can see in that photo. As to why I went this way, I wanted something to strongly tie the vertical studs together, so the wood stacked within wouldn't push them outward. That dictated which way the studs were turned, and thus those purlins running parallel with the ridge as ties between the studs.

In any case, here's a photo that shows the rafters. Since max span between purlins is only something like 8 inches, there's no need for more than a 2x3 rafter, even with notching. I made a fixture/jig for my large radial arm saw that let me notch something like 8 rafters at a time, in a single pass, the whole assembly process was very production-line oriented. The first shed took me a few days, but the last three were like a day and a half each.

View attachment 323632

Note, this one was installed onto the piers before I put the roof on, simply because it was built in the heat of the summer, and putting the roof on down by the woods was cooler than doing it on my asphalt driveway in front of the shop. The others were all fully-built in front of the shop, before being moved down to the wood lot.

I can also see this is the one that was built with regular KD 2x6 purlins, whereas the other three sheds got PT 2x6 purlins. I think it was mid-COVID, and finding 2x6x16 PT was becoming a problem, right at that time. Carpenter bees will be their enemy, but I've also seen those bastards attack plenty of pressure treated wood, too.

Ok i see now, you are using those 2x6 purlins as collar ties mainly as well as rafter supports.

 

[Ashful]

Oh that's an interesting way to support the divider pallets just strapping a 2x4 to it front and back. That would be plenty of support.

Yep, worked really well for 3 years, but pretty much always failed near the end of 6 years, due to rot of the rails in the lower pallet. They also can't take much of a hit from a sloppy front-end loader driver, DAMHIKT... but other than that, great system! I just used two 3" deck screws at each end of each 2x4 brace.

I also used a pair of 1 ft. long 2x3 or 2x4 cleats screwed "on the flat" to the top side of the bottom pallet, which I'd set the upright pallet over. That was the best way to keep the bottom edge of the upright pallet planted in place for 3 - 6 years, with the lowest face board of the upright pallet screwed to the edge of that cleat. Hope that makes sense.

They are free and I'm only keeping 12 cords. Easy enough to replace them as I cycle through.

It's a good system, wasn't knocking it. In my case, the primary "gripe" was always leveling new pallets on unlevel and often soggy ground. I used bricks, pavers, natural and cut flagstone... whatever I had laying around. It helps that my wood splitting area is separated from the rest of the property by a rubble wall that used to be a barn, so plenty of material, but it was always tedious and eating up precious hours that I really wanted to use for splitting and stacking.

Did you do 3 rows or just 2 on your pallets. I really think 3 will be fine with both sides exposed.

I was cutting 20 - 22 inch lengths for my Jotul Firelights when I started that system, so it was always just 2 rows on the 40" direction of a standard 40" x 48" pallet. When I transitioned to 18" splits for the BK's, I kept two rows, with a big gap in the middle. I would toss shorts and uglies into that gap, as the stacks went up, so it was never totally empty.

Love the wood lot


Sorry for thread jacking Matt but I feel it's relevant for your storage too!

Yeah, sorry Matt... but talk of processing and storing wood is always relevant to everyone.

 

[Caw]

I also used a pair of 1 ft. long 2x3 or 2x4 cleats screwed "on the flat" to the top side of the bottom pallet, which I'd set the upright pallet over. That was the best way to keep the bottom edge of the upright pallet planted in place for 3 - 6 years, with the lowest face board of the upright pallet screwed to the edge of that cleat. Hope that makes sense.

So you'd attach a cleat to the top of the ground pallet then attach the upright pallet to that cleat, along with the 2x4 strapping in back? Hmm. That makes sense. I did it differently thought. I just attached the pallets together with decking screws through the thicker board. I also used 4x4 chunks as braces for the vertical pallets. I used extra 6" spikes or screws I had laying around to attach them the ground pallets just giving the vertical ones some lean protection while stacking. Once everything is stacked the wood itself will support the verticals plenty.

I think I'm going to remove the back pallets next nice weekend day I get and replace them with 2x4 bracing like you showed in your pictures. That'll be plenty of support and give me better airflow. Also it'll just use less pallets, I can use the back ones for more flooring. I think it's all going to last longer for me as I'm doing this all on a level raised gravel bed. There shouldn't be as much rot and replacing will be plug and play.

I had originally put he back pallets on because I was going to use them structurally to make a roof but halfway through the first couple bays I realized that would be a bad idea. It would make replacing them a nightmare. Im just going to make the roofing structure completely independent when I get to it in a few years. I plan on making 6 bays and only have 3 done so it's good to adjust while I can. I only have to remove 9 back pallets. Going to be a bit of a pain as I used a lot of decking screws lol but it'll be fine. Id rather get it done the best way for drying.

 

[all night moe]

@31 pgs Matt, we're still going to root for ya. Act like it's not even there.
Don't even dust it.

 

[MRD1985]

@31 pgs Matt, we're still going to root for ya. Act like it's not even there.
Don't even dust it.

At this point after last night, that’s how’s it’s going to be. Thanks for the support.

 

[Ashful]

So you'd attach a cleat ...?

A picture is worth 1000 words. I'm running out right now, but will sketch it up later. The trouble with figuring out the best way to build these pallet cribs, is anticipating how they'll weather or rot over the course of years. It's always a few years in before you know if your chosen method was a good one, and it really sucks when a crib starts coming apart 2 years into a 3-year cycle... more likely 2 years into the second re-use of the crib. I've found the method I'm describing held up through two 3-year cycles, WRT attaching the pallets at the hinge point. Those 45-degree knee braces had a 50% success rate at 6 years, more often failing around 5 years due to rot of the outer rails of the lower pallet, but a simple cleat added to the top of the lower pallet, added between the two 3-year cycles could resolve that.

Will post later...

 

[Caw]

We've got freezing rain, snow on the stacks, and wind the rest of the week so we've got time before I can go make adjustments. Hoping to get out there this weekend.

 

[Ashful]

Damn, sorry Caw. Crazy busy day. Been working since 6:30am, and still have another hour or more to go. I'll have to post that sketch later.

 

[Caw]

A likely story. 😉

 

[Ashful]

Okay, real quick and crude here, another busy day.





Nothing genius, but I found this held up well. At least three screws thru each cleat, with a pair of cleats per hinge. Also add a screw to each place that end slat on the lower pallet crosses a stringer, and do the same on the lowest slat of the upright pallet if you want. You can’t screw the cleat right to the stringers, unless you’re going to notch back the stringer ends in the upright pallet, which is probably weaker and more work. So I just used two 12-16” scraps, with a gap in the middle for the center stringer on the upright pallet.

 

[Ashful]

Oh, and I think your lower pallets will probably hold up for two 3-year cycles. Mine were failing mostly due to rot, as I had them sitting on wet earth with no drainage.

 

[Caw]

Ok that's what I was envisioning as well. Thanks for sharing. In my construction I actually have the pallets facing the opposite orientation. I put them 48" deep and the 40" side runs the length of the gravel bed. So, when I install the upright pallets the stringer can be screwed directly to the ground pallets easily. I'll install the cleat to the vertical portion of the upright pallet as well as the back portion of the ground pallets so I can attach the braces. I'll probably use 4x4 scrap as it just slides right in easily.

 

[Ashful]

Yeah, I debated that, as well. If you have them rotated, just add your own cleats under the top slats, for attaching the 45 degree bracing. Not a huge deal, but you may also want to add screws between those slats and the stringers, so they don't lift after a few years with the tension the bracing is going to place on the nails. Of course, a few thousand pounds of wood will help hold them down, too.

 

[Caw]

Yeah I think the wood will be doing most of the work lol. When you think about it the middle vertical pieces really don't need to be that sturdy outside of just wanting to build it well. They just need to hold up to stacking them the wood will support it. The ends need to be very sturdy.

 

[MRD1985]

A bit of splitting in the mud today. Probably a bit less than half of what there is total, what’s left is decent size rounds. Got it stacked just off the ground.l as is for now. I’ll get some tarps probably this weekend, and once everything is done I’ll figure out a better setup for that front section for storage. Might be there for a long time.

Forgot there was a couple nice cherry logs in that bunch. That’s nice to split and smells nice. I have some here but it’s much smaller diameter (was from my own yard).

Noticeably harder to split pretty much everything when it’s sopping wet LOL

 

[bigealta]

A bit of splitting in the mud today. Probably a bit less than half of what there is total, what’s left is decent size rounds. Got it stacked just off the ground.l as is for now. I’ll get some tarps probably this weekend, and once everything is done I’ll figure out a better setup for that front section for storage. Might be there for a long time.

Forgot there was a couple nice cherry logs in that bunch. That’s nice to split and smells nice. I have some here but it’s much smaller diameter (was from my own yard).

Noticeably harder to split pretty much everything when it’s sopping wet LOL
View attachment 323754 View attachment 323755

Nice, no rush on the tarps for fresh split. you can leave untarped for a year no problem, probably actually better to leave fresh split untarped at least until fall.
OH shoot, did i suggest uncovered? Here we go.

 

[MRD1985]

Nice, no rush on the tarps for fresh split. you can leave untarped for a year no problem, probably actually better to leave fresh split untarped at least until fall.
OH shoot, did i suggest uncovered? Here we go.

It’s been so wet here between rain and snow I feel like tarp just the top and leaving the sides open should help dry out out a little more effectively?

 

[MRD1985]

Most of the stuff on the top 1/3 is ash and cherry. They’ll season much faster than the oak I put on the bottom