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Stove required for "Wood Stove Design Challenge"

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Kiwi Firemaster, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. Kiwi Firemaster

    Kiwi Firemaster New Member

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    I am happy to factor in a visit down to clean that stove up Mike. I guess the main thing is the door works well and seals okay.

    Moving around a 500 lb stove would be a bit of a challenge. I did a solo effort to put my test stove in my hatchback once but it required someone else to help me lift it out again, but that one is only 100Kg (220 lb). I do like to see things built solidly to last :)

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  2. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    oh hell no!. i'll rework the stove, you got enough to deal with. BTW when are you planning to come to the US?

    was rainy as all get out over the weekend, havent loaded the 18-p yet but will get it either tomorrow or day after (neighbor's tractor is my planned tool to get it in my silverado)
    dafattkidd likes this.
  3. Kiwi Firemaster

    Kiwi Firemaster New Member

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    Mike I should arrive in Washington on the afternoon of the 10th, with setup day on the 14th I have planned a couple of days free in case I need it.

    Is there one small thing you can do for me and that is send an email to John Ackerly just to formalise your approval to used the stove as per rule 5.4.

    I note with interest your talk of flying on another thread. As a young fella I spent a few years in the RNZAF, but on the maintenance/support side rather than flying.
  4. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    i was a wrench turner as well,worked armament systems, first on cobra's (AH-1) then apache's and i finished out in armed blackhawks in the task force at campbell we actually did some work with the aussies( their spec ops guys) back in the day, was just training ( i did learn they are almost as accomplished at drinking as our own seals)

    BTW the 30 is likely a non-starter, boss didnt seem to high on the thought of demonstrating a mod on a stove we advertize as one of the cleanest burning large firebox units on the market. haven't gotten an answer on the P yet but i didnt ask yet so theres why. i have to get it to my shop (neighbor's tractor is in the shop, he said he should have it back in another week) once i get it there im going to shoot it with our shot blaster (picture a sandblast machine firing manganese shot at stupid speed) then examine it to make sure its still operable, remember this unit was used when i was given it almost 20 years ago. it had been out in the weather for quite a while prior to my getting it. i think its still a viable unit , but i have to blast it and see to ensure its usable. i hope to get this done by this weekend (tractor permitting)
    Huntindog1 likes this.
  5. Kiwi Firemaster

    Kiwi Firemaster New Member

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    Wow that would be some nice equipment to be working on. Heck when I was on our single helicopter squadron they were still operating Hueys, and still do. I was there for the 25th anniversary in service but they will be retired a few years shy of 50. My old trade would be three or more in any decent sized defence force, a mix of safety equipment and aircraft finishing with the crossover being industrial sewing. Still I got signed out on daily servicing, towing, refueling and the like, plus did a rotor change in the field with an avionics tech while overseen by a mechanical NCO. I packed and maintained parachutes for a bit and the SAS would take us away in the field when they were doing a jump course. Overall the RNZAF was the best people I have ever worked with. Dad did time in the RNZN so you will get a few stories from him if you get him talking :)

    No problem with the 30. I would actually be a bit nervous going in untested on the big jump up in volume. The 18-p is exactly what the IntensiFire is designed for and ticks all the right boxes if it is sound. Might be good if you got a photo or two of it before you clean it up.
    Huntindog1 likes this.
  6. Bronko

    Bronko New Member

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    Hello Jason, Thank you for the accurate info when I contacted your site. The intensifire has no application in my stove until, lol, I burn out my secondary baffles.

    Have you found a stove yet? My old Tempwood was pulled out and stored in the basement after I moved out of my last place. Maybe it's still available. Negatives: 8" and no window. Also they came back into production, maybe they would like the publicity? I'm getting inspired to come down to DC.
    I added a post on permies.com about the Nov. Competion and you looking for a stove (woodstove forum)

    If you and your dad need a place to stay in Connecticut (New London area, halfway between NY and Boston, or as we say the middle of nowhere :) when in the States let me know.

    Bill
  7. Bronko

    Bronko New Member

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    PS. When researching coal stoves and coal/wood combos i ran into a lot of stoves that went out of business (bad for finding parts)

    I think a lot of info was on Nepa forums? They weren't very efficent with wood but maybe the combination of Intensifire downdrafting air into the bottom firebox grates would show a big efficency change.

    Also the idea of a 55 gal or 30 gal DIY build. I think Volkezgang? and others sell kits. Positives: North South burners, get a window

    And while I'm brainstorming their is a US tv show "sharktank" that lets inventors present ideas to investors. Just getting on the show gets your product to the eyes of millions, even if you don't get an agreeable investment offer.
    You can also leverage your previous TV exposure in the US and seem to have a great lifestory.

    Bill
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
  8. Josephultraclassic

    Josephultraclassic New Member

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    I have a The Great Americana Heating Machine wood stove that we used up until this year but it has an 8" flue. If you are interested we probably could work it out
  9. Josephultraclassic

    Josephultraclassic New Member

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    americana.jpg

    This is a description of the Americana unit. It was made by a Illinois company that went out of business. We purchased it in 1975
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2013
  10. Kiwi Firemaster

    Kiwi Firemaster New Member

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    Thank you for the offers of stoves. Mike looks like he has a good one lined up for me but if that doesn't work out for some reason I may come back to you.

    Some good ideas there Bill. I will have to flick Shark Tank and email, you never know I guess. The Volkezgang might be a good compliment for my ideas, mind you the North South thing is more about the wood than about the best geometry for the IntensiFire.

    Edit: Bill the contact for Shark Tank looks like it would work better if someone nominates you, if that was something you were prepared to do :)
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  11. Kiwi Firemaster

    Kiwi Firemaster New Member

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    Mike,

    how are you getting on with the 18-p? I only ask because the Design Challenge co-ordinators have been asking for information about the stove installation and use.

    Regards

    Jason
  12. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    the 18-P is a non starter, finally got it to the plant to work on it last weekend and after running it through the shot blaster found its been badly over fired for one and rust had eaten away a lot of steel, as well, had stress cracks in it walls were thinned out considerably, i doubt it would have been able to take any serious heat. ended up scrapping it. sorry its taken this long to get an answer for ya (especially a negative one) this time of year is brutally busy for me both at work and at home.

    wish i had known it was as bad off as it was before hand might have saved you some time looking at other options but i really didn't think it was going to be in that bad a shape.
  13. branchburner

    branchburner Minister of Fire

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    Jason, does this mean you are still in the hunt for a stove? Have you contacted any American manufacturers yet for tentative approval of the use of existing or retired models?
  14. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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  15. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    the 18 PC is a catalytic model, it may not be suitable as the flue opening is seperated by the "cat plate" if its an 18P which is not a cat stove it would be the same model i had
  16. Kiwi Firemaster

    Kiwi Firemaster New Member

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    Yeah I saw that on Craigslist so will look at the option of gas axing out the cat plate. Are you happy for me to use and old Englander if I can source one Mike? Forgreenheat would require written approval. Can you tell from the dimensions which model this would be? http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/for/4122210412.html

    I have emailed about the Treemont on craigslist but haven't had a response yet, but that was only 24 hrs ago. There are some others that I could use but I would rather have a glass door, even if a small one.

    Branchburner I did ask the other finalists many months back about an old stove as we have a teams emailing list. I didn't get a response at all. If push comes to shove I could bring my latest prototype that will give smokeless performance with 40%+ MC wood (dry basis& I personally felled two weeks ago), but it probably needs some work on the patent. There is no testing protocol for wet wood either.
  17. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    i suspect that wont be any trouble if you can find one, sorry about the one i had , but trust me if you saw what was left of it when it came out of the blaster ;sick the thing was left outside for several years before it was given to me, i didnt need it but was gonna fix it up for my shop at home, so it sat for a decade in the back of my garage as project after project pushed it off, i honestly didnt think it would be so bad.
    way i look at it if its a stove we no longer produce i see no issue in getting an approval for it.boss would have to be asked but im sure he wouldnt have an issue with it as its not like its "our" product being demo'd, its yours
  18. branchburner

    branchburner Minister of Fire

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    The reason I ask, it might make sense to send a blanket email to a number of stove companies in advance, asking if a written approval is something they would even consider. In this way you would seem to have much greater odds in finding an ideal stove, rather than seeking out a used stove first and THEN trying to get the approval.

    For example, something like this Country Flame might work:
    http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/mat/4100694461.html

    But by the time you sought out and got approval by the latest owner of that brand, even if they gave approval, the stove might very well be sold already. So my thought was, seek approval for a few brands/models FIRST, then look for a stove that you know will be approved. (Perhaps Mike is working on that for you, but from his post it doesn't yet sound like Englander is a 100% sure thing, or which models they would approve that you could readily find.)

    So in addition to the lesser known Country Flame, you might contact Jotul, Lopi, Napolean, Buck, Harman, etc. These companies have older top-venting stoves that frequently appear on craigslist. I would also try contacting your fellow team Woodstock again - I have to believe they would help you out, except all their models are still current. But one with its cat guts stripped out would probably suit your needs.
  19. Kiwi Firemaster

    Kiwi Firemaster New Member

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    Thanks for your support Mike. The way I see it is that if I present a retrofitted stove then it speaks of the build quality of the original product.

    To Branchburner and all, here is what John Ackerly has stated in applying the rule: "You are free to use any stove that is made by a company no longer in business, by our rules."

    My problem is that not being from the USA, or being fairly new to the stove business in general, I don't know the company history. What is the story with Country Flame? That stove would make for an easy conversion, although larger than what I am used to working with.

    I will take on board your suggesting in contacting those manufacturers as well is work on craigslist.

    Regards

    Jason
  20. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
  21. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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  22. branchburner

    branchburner Minister of Fire

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    I think that brand is now owned by a company other than the original stove maker. But I may be confusing it with Country (rather than Country Flame), now owned by Lennox... not sure why they are listed as "out of production" on the EPA's current list.

    In any case, wouldn't hurt to fire out a form letter of request to as many companies as you could find online. Here's the current list of EPA stoves:
    http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf
  23. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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    Hey Kiwi, any progress on finding out which Manufacturers will allow you to use their stove for the challenge?

    I have been on the look out for another 18-p but none have popped up on CL.
  24. NW Walker

    NW Walker Member

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    Jason, I'm Matt from Walker Stoves. If I can help in any way let me know. I didn't speak up earlier since I'm 3,000 miles away from D.C. and wasn't at all sure I was going to make it. As it turns out I'm driving out in a subaru and while my stove will take up most of it, I can throw some tools in there if you need 'em. I also might be able to pick something up for you in D.C. once I drop mine off on Wednesday. Let me know if I can help.
  25. Kiwi Firemaster

    Kiwi Firemaster New Member

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    Well I had a facebook contact working their connections in DC but have just received the disappointing news that hey have been unsuccessful. So the search is back on and the deadline fast approaching.

    Mellow I have been searching the DC area on craigslist but I see that Fisher is further afield. It is still up and I will have to consider the 8" aspect. I have messaged about a couple of stoves on craigslist by no one has responded. Perhaps I am doing something wrong? I also notice that there is a trader on there that looks to be buying the cheap ones, giving them a coat of paint and then selling them at a premium.

    Matt thank you for your offer mate, it may be needed. Although at this stage it looks like I may be hiring a pick up to drive to some distance to find one. I fly in late on the 9th so do have a few days to do this if required. I am looking forward to meeting you there :)

    Branchburner I had held off because I had hoped my facebook contact would come through but I will send off an email today. Note the Lopi are by Travis and they have already been asked when I canvassed the other teams, as I mentioned earlier.

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