stove smokes when lit, big time!! (any ideas)

[drbond]

Hello, new user here, and glad I found this, looks like some good information. I have a new Hearthstone (heritage) and I have had several break-in fires now, and a few hotter fires. At times when I first light the stove, I get terrible smoke pushing out the stove, like BAD down drafts! It pushes so hard back out the stove, that it comes out all the doors and even at the joints in the stove pipe. As soon as the chimney appears to get warm, the smoke goes away and the stoves works great. This is an outside, 8"flue chimney with excellent draft.
I was wondering if I installed a dampner in the stove pipe if that would help? Manufacturer said it wasn't neccessary, but I'm at a lost as how to stop this. Wife doesn't even want to use it as she just isn't sure if it's going to smoke when lit or not!

Thanks,
DRBOND

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

You have a draft problem not a stove problem. How much chimney do you have?how many elbows? Where is the stove installed in the house? who installed it? The 8" chimney is too large for that stove, expecially if its out side. It will never work at full efficiency on a 8 inch flue.

 

[drbond]

My chimney is 40' outside and rises above the house the same as the old chimney did before it was taken down. I have 2 elbows in the stove pipe all with an upward pitch. I get excellent draft but just at times I get bad downdraft only when chimney is cold.

House is old 2 story farm house I'll try to take some pictures of stove when I get home tonight and post them.

Bondo©

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

thats your problem. you have way to much chimney. When the stove is in the start up phase it doenst loose enough heat to establish draft. Thats why its designed for a 6" flue. Im suprised that you dont over fire the stove once you get the chimney warm. THats the other problem with the install, once you get that 40' collom of air hot it PULLS way harder then the stove is designed for, which can overfire the stove. I just accidently did it a few weeks back in my show room with a heratige on 30' of 8" pipe.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

here is a link to that thread about my heratige in a similar setup.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/5383/

You need to be super carefull with that setup. If i were your dealer i would force you to install a flue damper. The flue damper doesnt fix the smoke at start up, it will help you slow down the draft. Who installled the stove?

 

[drbond]

I understand what you are saying, but my pipe temps never get over 350, only had the stove up to 500 so far. Now what would be my options here? This is a dual 8'flue outside chimney with cleanouts. I open to anything, just want to get it working right!

Thanks,
Bondo©

 

[elkimmeg]

MSG chimneys are funny too short a draft problem too long also a draft problem 40 feet is a hell of a lot of cold air to reverse the draft in . The ideal chimney length is between 20 ans 30 ft

chimneys inefficiency it like the parabolic curbs we had to plot in math it reaches an apex point where additional length places its efficiency or the reverse down turn away from the apex
Again it aslo could be situated in the lowest part of the home and be at the point of lowest negative pressure. It could be that leaky attic access on the second floor adding to increasing negative pressure. Have you started the stove up by cracking the nearest window first? The window crack acts to equalize pressure first. Second you may find using super cedar starters create enough initial heat to reverse the draft and get it going. You may have to pre heat the chimney first. I know of some that use a propane torch aimed at the damper prior to starting the fire

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

If your only complaint is the smoke at start up there is no fix for that.
If your happy the way the stove operates after start up then you are doing pretty well.
Typically the strong draft will suck the flue gasses right out of the stove before the stove ever gets to burn them. And you will have very reduced burn times.
The only fix for these issues is to install 6" pipe. BUT at 40' i think you would have similar start up problems, but you would have a way better performance out of your stove.

 

[drbond]

Thanks for all the input, that's what makes forums so good. I'm going to go back to ground zero and start over and see what options I have. One good thing, temps are still in the 40 and 50's here, more like spring instead of winter! Thanks again, and I'll update later on what I find and do, and the outcome.

Again thanks,
Bondo©

 

[rover47]

Hi all, I have the same problem when my chimney is cold. It happens after the stove hasn't been run in a few days. When I open the door on the stove I get cold air in the stove. What I do is warm the pipes up with a heat gun aimed in the air conrtol in the door. Once the warm air starts rising the draft is perfect. My set up is staight up thru the roof (kitchen on the back of the house, one level) The total lenght is about 15 feet.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

If your on 8" that could be too short. If your on 6" it should be perfect. You might have other negative pressure problems affecting the draft. Range hoods, bathroom fans etc play havioc with draft.

 

[lma58]

I've had that same problem, cold air droppiong down the cold exterior chimney.... the colder it gets outside and the longer without a fire, the worse the problem gets.... my way of dealing with it is to use a blow drier.... aimed up the flue from inside the stove.... works like a charm..might take 5 minutes on the coldest of days...I build my fire first and light it just as I am removing the hair drier.

 

[webbie]

There are other threads here that address this problem, as well as a couple articles on chimneys in the Info section and also in the QA section.

In short:
1. Only final solution is electric draft fan
2. Easier solution is to install either a T in the stove pipe with a removable cap - close to the chimney and use this to place a piece of balled up newspaper in to "start" the chimney.
3. An outside or inside cleanout can also be used to insert said newspaper.

And most important, always be aware of whether the chimney is drafting up or down before starting the stove.

 

[rover47]

It's all six inch

 

[drbond]

I know that it is a cold chimney and over size flue on my end now. Looking back it appears to only happen when stove sits for more than a week with no fire in it, and we get a cold spell, then it smokes due to cold flue. Thinking of using a small ceramic heater with fan in the stove for about 1/2 hour before firing stove so it heats up the flue first, not sure if it will work, but will give it a try.
Did the paper thing, but all that caused was more smoke! Didn't try it outsice in the clean out, that may work too.

Bondo©

 

[lma58]

The hair drier works for me everytime.. I used to use a piece if newspaper...but most times that would smoke right back at me....

 

[jabush]

Prior to having my chimney lined, I routinely would go out to the ash cleanout and light some paper to warm the flu. Worked well, but kind of a PITA. Now that it's lined & insulated I do not have the downdrafts that I used to get. I just hold a piece of lit newspaper in the back of the stove and it takes right off.

I think sizing your flu to your appliance would help with your draft issues.

 

[wg_bent]

The trick is to learn how to get the chimney warm fast so that it drafts itself. Occasionally, I have this problem. I believe that a liner insulation would help. Describe the chimney better. What type is it? I've found that using a wax log chunk can help to get some warmth into the chimney. The trick of putting a wad of news paper in the chimney or above the baffle plate simply doesn't work for me. I find that news paper in the stove with a little (1-2 oz) of used motoroil get's the chimney going and hot quick. It usually takes only a minute to get things going. Not sure if a soap stone stove impacts things at all, but it doesn't seem like it should.

One thing I tried was placing a small camp (gas) stove in the door opening and that really worked well, but I didn't like the idea of gas (coleman) being used for this.

I've heard of people using a propane tourch, but that doesn't seem like enough heat to be useful.

I hope this helps.

 

[drbond]

Thanks again for all the information and suggestions/ideas. As I said before this is a prime example of what a "GOOD" forum is for, and the administrators should be proud of it!
I'll let you all know how I make out once I get this under control and what worked best for me. Looks like we are going to have a couple of colder days, then back up in the 50's again! Grass is still green, and needs to be cut over the septic system AGAIN ! Who thunk it, mowing grass in January Wood pile is not shrinking anyways.

Bondo©

 

[Andre B.]

I've heard of people using a propane tourch, but that doesn't seem like enough heat to be useful.

I hope this helps.

Depends on the torch.
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=100341111

 

[Hogwildz]

Thanks again for all the information and suggestions/ideas. As I said before this is a prime example of what a "GOOD" forum is for, and the administrators should be proud of it!
I'll let you all know how I make out once I get this under control and what worked best for me. Looks like we are going to have a couple of colder days, then back up in the 50's again! Grass is still green, and needs to be cut over the septic system AGAIN ! Who thunk it, mowing grass in January Wood pile is not shrinking anyways.

Bondo©

If your grass is growing alot over the septic system, thats an indicator of a problem there. Sounds like your drain field isn't draining, but backing up. Might want to have that checked out to be safe.

 

[Robbie]

I have found something that works really well for me every time. I place a "small" ceramic heater on the front part of my stove for a few minutes. The way my stove front ledge is made the heater angles upward slightly and the hot air flows directly into my pipe. (this is not important as long as you get the heat going into your stove).

Here is how I do it,

1. place ceramic heater in wood stove on ledge or in front door opening.

2. slightly crack front door of my house (2 inches) in same room as stove.

3. with kindling already stacked and ready to light in stove, I light it and leave ceramic stove running. (this hot air already moving up forces smoke up and out pipe)

4. I let kindling get started burning pretty well and then remove ceramic heater before it gets too hot.

5. I leave stove door slightly open (1/2) inch until kindling is really going well, then shut door.

6. I then shut door on my house last.

The key is to let ceramic heater run for at least 5 minutes when pipe is real cold, a couple minutes extra or more does not cost that much and could save smoke from entering your house.


Until learning this procedure, I had smoke come out of my stove almost every time I started a fire and my pipe was cold.

Now it has not smoked one time in about 20 stove lights or in the last couple months.



Robbie

 

[drbond]

It's over my drain field where water drains. Grass always grows faster and higher there, always did for the past 20 years we lived there.

 

[Hogwildz]

It's over my drain field where water drains. Grass always grows faster and higher there, always did for the past 20 years we lived there.

Oh ok, if your ground water drainage is over there that makes sense then.

 

[drbond]

Yea, but thanks for pointing it out. I'm always checking mine, pump it every other year. Only 2 of us here, and it usually don't need it, but have family friend who does it for little $, so why not!