What Would a Fully Automated EKO Look Like?

[rickh1001]

With all of the progress on making the EKO's burn more efficiently (and by inference others gassifiers as well), I am wondering about the next logical extension of all of this. What would a fully automated EKO look like? Or more accurately, how would one design a more automated unit?

Imagine we could put a control motor on both the primary and secondary air supplies - not too hard to imagine doing, and the fan speed is already under control. So what would we do with all that control? Would an Oxygen sensor in the flue stack be required, and if so, what would be the goal? Just a small excess of oxygen I suppose, indicating a complete burn. Would we control the ratio of the primary to secondary air, and control the entire heat output level as desired using the fan air feed? Answering all these would be an extension of the entire optimization thread, if we really understood all the variables and how they interacted.

I know this is off the wall, and I am sure not planning on starting my own boiler company, as it appears the EKO is going to keep me curious for the next ten years at least. But it is interesting to think about it, and if we could, what would we do to design the most efficient possible gasifying device? With Cave's and others primary air adjusters (which I am going to construct for mine now), I really could imagine being able to put all the air supply variables under automation with stepper motors and such. I am wondering what the feedback loop would look like, and what we would monitor if we could control it all?

 

[Kemer]

How about fuel injection LOL

 

[pybyr]

excuse me- can't resist... hope I don't get this sent to The Ash Can.... a fully automated wood gasifier would look like a commodity speculator having extreme digestive upset, at both ends.... of the digestive tract.

How's that for an inspirational image for 2009

from someone who is still installing his gasifier boiler, having cancelled the oil deliveries and heating the house with a wood cookstove in the mean time....

queue mad scientist Bu Wah Ha Ha

 

[rickh1001]

pybyr,

Your commodity speculator analogy is right on the money, although he might not be dry enough to burn, which would at least put them to good use. I feel for you with the installation. It seems to me though, the next logical level of the entire thread(s) of optimizing the settings on the EKO is to put them under automatic control. I am not sure I know yet exactly how I would control the unit. Once we can adjust the units manually, we can just as well do it automatically. This is a pipe dream for sure, and I have to break to throw some more wood on the fire, as it is heading down around 0* for tonight. Happy New Year!

 

[steam man]

Here I am on my job on New Years Eve overhauling a large marine boiler. Very sophisticated automation, pretty much what boilerman talks about. However, reading about the commodity speculator analogy made think about simplicity at its best in the automation setup I already have at home. I trained my wife to stack, haul, load, and make fire. I've got it made. LOL

Happy New Year.

Mike

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

I suppose you could buy the control computer, sensors, fan, and actuators from a Fröling, and bolt it onto an Eko...

Not likely that you could get them to warranty it...

Joe

 

[flyingcow]

I suppose you could buy the control computer, sensors, fan, and actuators from a Fröling, and bolt it onto an Eko...

Not likely that you could get them to warranty it...

Joe

;-P :lol: Now that's a funny

 

[Duetech]

With all of the progress on making the EKO's burn more efficiently (and by inference others gassifiers as well), I am wondering about the next logical extension of all of this. What would a fully automated EKO look like? Or more accurately, how would one design a more automated unit?

Imagine we could put a control motor on both the primary and secondary air supplies - not too hard to imagine doing, and the fan speed is already under control. So what would we do with all that control? Would an Oxygen sensor in the flue stack be required, and if so, what would be the goal? Just a small excess of oxygen I suppose, indicating a complete burn. Would we control the ratio of the primary to secondary air, and control the entire heat output level as desired using the fan air feed? Answering all these would be an extension of the entire optimization thread, if we really understood all the variables and how they interacted.

I know this is off the wall, and I am sure not planning on starting my own boiler company, as it appears the EKO is going to keep me curious for the next ten years at least. But it is interesting to think about it, and if we could, what would we do to design the most efficient possible gasifying device? With Cave's and others primary air adjusters (which I am going to construct for mine now), I really could imagine being able to put all the air supply variables under automation with stepper motors and such. I am wondering what the feedback loop would look like, and what we would monitor if we could control it all?

The technology is here and at the price for these things you would think some of the gadgets would be standardized equipment (LOL).
In addition to your reasonable suggestions how about a flue gas analyzer for moisture out put that compares ambient versus post gassification moisture levels for wood moisture content? This would automatically adjust all air mix parameters as needed.
Couple that with an automated wood warming and "green/wet" wood de-moisturizing/drying compartment to bring all wood into correct moisture and temperature parameters even in unheated outbuilding locations.
Pre-intake air temperature control module that heats all operational system's intake combustion air to 150-200 degrees f through an exhaust flue "temperature conditioning" channel. (this would help maintain proper "gassification atmosphere" conditions and reduce gassification chamber "delta" stress).
A Fuel loading conveyor system to take wood from the wood warming compartment to load the primary chamber.
Add an optional external wood stack supply conveyor system to load the wood drying compartment.
Adjustable nozzles that focus the flame for optimum out put.
Articulating heat tubes with selectable/adjustable water path flow that responds to the adjusting flame at the nozzle to shorten storage hi-end heat times and maximize heat extraction for all heat load conditions.
A hydrogen gas collector/compressor that would automatically store gas from every would be "idle" initiation, as per boiler/system limit temperature maximum, for un-assisted fuel load re-ignition. You would need that because the automated fire snuffer would extinguish the flame every time the system got up to heat and gas storage was up to maximum.
An electronic ignition system. (Obviously)
An operator presence sensor or (primitive) alarm clock alarm sensor connected to a coffee pot that brews a fresh cup for you at the boiler each morning (second indulgence button would be optional).
Oh and of course all ash would be compacted to manageable five pond blocks and automatically removed.

And with all these ideas why wouldn't you want to start your own boiler company? (I know...want a list????) Even though some of these things are far fetched some of them are not so far they can't be fetched. Have fun...

 

[leaddog]

Most of all you said is being done accoss the pond. When you get to looking at what is being done over there it makes you realize how far we are behind. Oh yes, it does come with a price and I'm not sure most of us are ready to fork out the BIG bucks. Joe made a jest but he was on the mark and I'm sure there is even more advanced units over there. They won't sell them here for several reasons. I still like the looks of that modulating REFO chip burner. Burns up to 45% moiture chips, modulates from 10% to 100% so storage isn't required.
leaddog

 

[Duetech]

Hey leaddog do you have a link for the REFO? I missed that one and would like to look at it. Thanks....

 

[leaddog]

Hey leaddog do you have a link for the REFO? I missed that one and would like to look at it. Thanks....

www.farm2000.co.uk I'll send you the pdf file. I emailed the factory in denmark but they wouldn't even respond. The distributor also sent them my name, but they aren't interested in exporting. They look like something that would work very well as there is lots of stuff here that would be easy to chip that gets burried here. I think they don't have sevicemen trained here and so they aren't interested. But they would be better than pellets as chips are always avilable if you have a tractor and chippers are available for under $2000.
leaddog

 

[pybyr]

Hey leaddog do you have a link for the REFO? I missed that one and would like to look at it. Thanks....

www.farm2000.co.uk I'll send you the pdf file. I emailed the factory in denmark but they wouldn't even respond. The distributor also sent them my name, but they aren't interested in exporting. They look like something that would work very well as there is lots of stuff here that would be easy to chip that gets burried here. I think they don't have sevicemen trained here and so they aren't interested. But they would be better than pellets as chips are always avilable if you have a tractor and chippers are available for under $2000.
leaddog

WOW- that is an interesting unit, indeed. Can you please e-mail me the PDF file, also? thanks!

 

[Duetech]

That's innovation taken to the practical limit. Mult- fuel flexible burn parameters and its own Fire extinguisher. Somebody needs to talk to the old corn boilers mfg's around here and have them make some retro-fits. Wouldn't really be close but would be a new leg for some staggered companies. I like my EKO but MAN I WANT ONE. Thanks leaddog

 

[taxidermist]

I dont know what they can add to make it fancy but they could put a fan setup like tarm and pull the air rather then push it so the smoke would stay in the fire box!