What would you do?

[Shipper50]

I bought a new Regency I3100 from a dealer here in Indiana and with his and his store staffs recommendation they told me that it would heat my house with no problem. They did the install with full stainless liner and put a plate at the top of the chimney before the cap. Also the dealer told me they put insulation up in the damper hole where the liner went through.

My main problem is the I3100 doesn't heat my house. It was 62.8 in my house this morning with a outside temp of 5 and I had put a full load in the insert before bed and had it going hot before shutting the air down. I had my heat pump on as back up and it for sure would have been colder in the house without it.

I spent $3850 for the install with new insert, labor, hearth pad, liner and taxes and I am not better off than when I had my old insert that I only paid $950 for. I live in a log home of around 1850 sf. with 6 inch log walls and brand new triple pane windows and new fiberglass doors. Its not like I live in a farmhouse with no insulation.

I also burn only good wood as in hickory, ash, cherry so the wood is not the problem.

I called the dealer today and he basically told me to call the Regency people and see what they have to say. As this insert is rated for so many btu's and it should put them out.

Not a happy insert owner by any ones imagination.

Shipper

 

[carpniels]

Hi Shipper,

This does not sound all that bad. Same thing happened here. What you have to remember (and I didn't know this so I made the same mistake) is that when you load the stove completely for overnight burn, char the wood and TURN DOWN THE AIR, you are essentially limiting the BTUs the stove produces. This makes the load last overnight, but you do not get many BTUs, hence the temperature in your house drops.

I have had to compromise and open the air a little so that I have more heat during the night (so the temp in the house does not drop too much) but have less coals left in the morning (but still enough to restart the fire).

To me, it sounds that everything is working correctly.

carpniels

PS. with a new stove, it normally takes about a season for anyone to learn how to run it correctly. They all work slightly different and thus there is a learning curve.

 

[webbie]

Shipper, the idea that a stove "heats the whole house" is sort of a misnomer. And, as carp mentions, it is somewhat opposite to the entire idea of wood heat.

So, first take a deep breath!

Then, consider this - if this was the winter of 2006/2007, you would probably be bragging here about how well your unit heated your house. The same stove that would heat an entire house in a average temperature (probably about 30 degrees in winter where you are), would certainly do much less of a job when the wind started blowing and the temp fell below 20. When the temps hit below 10, you would probably be cold in the same room!

A stove should be sized based on normal weather, and it appears that yours is. To heat the entire house on a overnight burn in any weather just is not, IMHO, the proper standard to hold a fireplace insert to. In fact, even our Central Heat buddies (with their BIG loads) sometimes have a tough time of that.

So a lot of it may be that your expectations were too high - which may have been fueled by the dealer to some degree....but that is normal. Just about everything in our "consumer culture" is over-hyped, including wood stoves and pellet stoves.

To answer the questions very honestly, I would probably celebrate if an insert kept my house above 60 when it was 5 degrees outside!

 

[nshif]

Is this an external chimney? did they put a block off plate at the damper below the insulation or did they just stick some insulation around the liner? Is it an insulated liner? With no block off plate and just insulation some (if not alot) of your heat is going to heat your chimney and the great outdoors.

 

[iceman]

Is this an external chimney? did they put a block off plate at the damper below the insulation or did they just stick some insulation around the liner? Is it an insulated liner? With no block off plate and just insulation some (if not alot) of your heat is going to heat your chimney and the great outdoors.

also add to above ---and how well is your house insulated?

 

[Shipper50]

Thanks for the replies. But even when I burn the insert full air and have only 3-4 splits in it, it still doesn't heat my house above 65. When I got up this morning at 4:45 it had a full bed of coals and starting a new fire was no problem. But when I put more wood in and got it going full bore and checked in 2.5 hours the house had dropped even more and that is with the insert burning full air with good wood.

Why is it I read everyone on this board that owns a Regency I3100 and yes I searched and read many posts that they are all happy and it heats there house to 75? I mean I would be happy with 68 all the time and keep my heat pump off.

The main thing that burns my ass is the dealer told me it would heat my house with no problem and his son was the installer and said the same thing and I am no better off than with my other insert.

Shipper

 

[Mmaul]

Are you Dampering the air valve down at all or just leaving it open full all the time?

 

[iceman]

Thanks for the replies. But even when I burn the insert full air and have only 3-4 splits in it, it still doesn't heat my house above 65. When I got up this morning at 4:45 it had a full bed of coals and starting a new fire was no problem. But when I put more wood in and got it going full bore and checked in 2.5 hours the house had dropped even more and that is with the insert burning full air with good wood.

Why is it I read everyone on this board that owns a Regency I3100 and yes I searched and read many posts that they are all happy and it heats there house to 75? I mean I would be happy with 68 all the time and keep my heat pump off.

The main thing that burns my ass is the dealer told me it would heat my house with no problem and his son was the installer and said the same thing and I am no better off than with my other insert.

Shipper

you can't burn with full air open....that sends all the heat up the chimmney.....run it with your air open to start then reduce air your stove will actually get hotter once you turn the air down! i run mine open to get a good fire going .. it get up to about 400-500 degrees then i close mine air almost all the way down ..my stove then goes up to 600-700 degrees! also are you sure your wood is seasoned??

 

[Mmaul]

Did you get the optional blower?

 

[swestall]

Yah, ya got to experiment a bit more to get a feel for how it will do at different settings with different loads.
As for it heating your whole house, unless they came in there and checked the heat loss of the building, etc: how would they actually know. It sounds more like they meant. "it should heat your whole house, we'll see".
But, you might find that when you are totally use to it, you will be able to get the performance you want. One thing I try to do is to let the house get a bit warmer in the day, that way it will require less BTU's overnight and the house temp will slowly fall down as the burn progresses.
Unless you keep it cranking all the time your temps are going to swing....
Also, the prior comment about having to shut down or all your heat is going up the stack is totally correct. Try a mid setting then up a bit and down a bit over a few days, so you get a feel for what's what, in your specific installation.
Meanwhile, lower the setting on the heat pump and add a comforter to the bed while you get use to it.

 

[Shipper50]

Is this an external chimney? did they put a block off plate at the damper below the insulation or did they just stick some insulation around the liner? Is it an insulated liner? With no block off plate and just insulation some (if not alot) of your heat is going to heat your chimney and the great outdoors.

also add to above ---and how well is your house insulated?

How well would a log home with no drywall and all WOOD be insulated? No its not an insulated liner as they didn't say I needed one and put in the liner they quoted me with. I brought up this block off plate to the dealer and he said they put a plate up at the top before the chimney cap.

 

[Shipper50]

Did you get the optional blower?

Yes I got the blower as it was free from Regency. To answer the other question about my wood, I have been burning wood for 20 years and I guess its seasoned. I mean its gray and the bark peels off and it clinks when you knock to pieces together? Is that seasoned?

Shipper

 

[iceman]

Is this an external chimney? did they put a block off plate at the damper below the insulation or did they just stick some insulation around the liner? Is it an insulated liner? With no block off plate and just insulation some (if not alot) of your heat is going to heat your chimney and the great outdoors.

also add to above ---and how well is your house insulated?

How well would a log home with no drywall and all WOOD be insulated? No its not an insulated liner as they didn't say I needed one and put in the liner they quoted me with. I brought up this block off plate to the dealer and he said they put a plate up at the top before the chimney cap.

a block off plate goes right where your damper was...
here is a pic of mine
the top of the block off plate should be insulated as well and if do not have one that is a huge heat loss i have a block off plate and a plate at the top of the flue

 

[begreen]

Is this an external chimney? did they put a block off plate at the damper below the insulation or did they just stick some insulation around the liner? Is it an insulated liner? With no block off plate and just insulation some (if not alot) of your heat is going to heat your chimney and the great outdoors.

also add to above ---and how well is your house insulated?

How well would a log home with no drywall and all WOOD be insulated? No its not an insulated liner as they didn't say I needed one and put in the liner they quoted me with. I brought up this block off plate to the dealer and he said they put a plate up at the top before the chimney cap.

Putting a cap at the top keeps rain and rodents out, but does nothing to stop heat transfer from the stove to the masonry. That is what an insulated block off plate does. Read up in the Hearth wikis about block-off plates and sealing the damper area.

Also, you may get more heat out of the stove by closing the air down about 50% after you have a good fire going. By doing this, you encourage strong secondary combustion and are not cooling the fire down so much with an over-abundance of primary air. Put a stove thermometer on the face of the stove to the top right or left of the door. It will be a helpful guide on how the stove is burning.

 

[Shipper50]

a log home has how many linear feet of possible air infiltration between the logs?do they contract & expand with temp changes?
i'd cover the housewalls with tarps..............you asked........good luck

Gee the brain surgeons are responding today. My log home is chinked as in not many leaks? I would agree all homes have air infiltration, but what does that have to do with my insert not doing what the dealer said it would?

Shipper

 

[Shipper50]

Is this an external chimney? did they put a block off plate at the damper below the insulation or did they just stick some insulation around the liner? Is it an insulated liner? With no block off plate and just insulation some (if not alot) of your heat is going to heat your chimney and the great outdoors.

also add to above ---and how well is your house insulated?

How well would a log home with no drywall and all WOOD be insulated? No its not an insulated liner as they didn't say I needed one and put in the liner they quoted me with. I brought up this block off plate to the dealer and he said they put a plate up at the top before the chimney cap.

Putting a cap at the top keeps rain and rodents out, but does nothing to stop heat transfer from the stove to the masonry. That is what an insulated block off plate does. Read up in the Hearth wikis about block-off plates and sealing the damper area.

Also, you may get more heat out of the stove by closing the air down about 50% after you have a good fire going. By doing this, you encourage strong secondary combustion and are not cooling the fire down so much with an over-abundance of primary air. Put a stove thermometer on the face of the stove to the top right or left of the door. It will be a helpful guide on how the stove is burning.

The dealer told me today that they had put a plate at the top of the chimney and that would block off heat going out of the chimney. He also said they put insulation in the damper area, not a block off plate.

How does the normal insert or stove owner know these things unless, one they read on the Internet? Or 2 they trust the dealer and installer to do a proper job and not screw the buyer around.

I have closed the air off to about 65% and will try it that way. As for the thermometer on the face of the insert, I ordered one 2 weeks ago and its still not here. I do have a digital thermometer and the best reading I have gotten above the door in between the air discharges is 470f.

Shipper

 

[ozarkjeep]

Shipper,

thats the sucky part, you dont generally know these things, or understand why things ( like a block off plate) are important until its too late!

470 temps on the front of the stove seem pretty hot to me, its likely hotter on the top surface of the stove.

is the blower working? I mean its blowing hot air out from around the insert?

are you filling the firebox full of wood? or just adding a couple of splits at a time?

does the wood hiss when its burning?

 

[Shipper50]

Shipper,

thats the sucky part, you dont generally know these things, or understand why things ( like a block off plate) are important until its too late!

470 temps on the front of the stove seem pretty hot to me, its likely hotter on the top surface of the stove.

is the blower working? I mean its blowing hot air out from around the insert?

are you filling the firebox full of wood? or just adding a couple of splits at a time?

does the wood hiss when its burning?

I don't know what the temp on the top is as its inside my fireplace. The blower is working fine on high all the time. I have filled the box up and also only put in 3-4 pieces of wood. The wood is seasoned and its not hissing or pissing.

It has heat coming out of the discharges, but it doesn't put out enough heat to heat my house as they said it would. If I lived in front of the insert and only had a room 20x20 I would not be unhappy. I would be sweating my ---- off.

Shipper

 

[begreen]

FWIW, mostly for others considering building a log home, there are several insulated log products. Log homes are beautiful, my wife grew up in one in CT. But with todays energy costs, I would go this route.

http://singloghomes.com/index.php
http://www.gllam.com/
http://www.e-logsiding.com/insulated-log-siding.html

 

[jbrown56]

Shipper, A properly chinked log home with 6" logs gets you a R - 19 or it wouldn,t pass the energy building code.

Jim

 

[ozarkjeep]

thats really odd?

my house is pretty old ( 1968) not insulated well, drafty, bad windows, split (3) levels.

and I had it 75 degrees downstairs, and 64 upstairs last night, it was 10 degrees outside.

and I DONT have a block-off plate.

but it sure sounds as if your stove is working as it should.

what is the size of the firebox?
will the dealer take it back?

EDIT-
I see that unit is rated for 75K btus ( 20k more than mine)
I cant imagine that it is working correctly and not giving you more heat than you are getting.
the exposed front lip ( top) is the hottest reading I get on my insert by the way.

Shipper,

thats the sucky part, you dont generally know these things, or understand why things ( like a block off plate) are important until its too late!

470 temps on the front of the stove seem pretty hot to me, its likely hotter on the top surface of the stove.

is the blower working? I mean its blowing hot air out from around the insert?

are you filling the firebox full of wood? or just adding a couple of splits at a time?

does the wood hiss when its burning?

I don't know what the temp on the top is as its inside my fireplace. The blower is working fine on high all the time. I have filled the box up and also only put in 3-4 pieces of wood. The wood is seasoned and its not hissing or pissing.

It has heat coming out of the discharges, but it doesn't put out enough heat to heat my house as they said it would. If I lived in front of the insert and only had a room 20x20 I would not be unhappy. I would be sweating my ---- off.

Shipper

 

[swestall]

Hey Shipper, all the questions come at you pretty quick; the folks are just trying to focus down on what might be causing you to either not get heat or to lose what you do get.
You won't get this in a day or a week; but after a few weeks of experimenting you will get to understand what that stove will and won't do. You will also benefit from a blockoff as others have said; just putting insulation in there is a shortcut and helps but not totally. Also, you should be sure they used the proper kind of insulation; the fiberglass stuff you use for home insulation is not correct, you need specialized insulation for this application.
The top block off is also a good idea, but as others have said too, does not keep all heat from bleeding out; in fact the blockoff at the bottom keeps it from going into the masonary mass where it gets absorbed. Some installers go as far as to fill the space around the liner; especially when the chimney is on an outside wall.
When my stove is cold and the house is cold it can take me a good day of burning to get everything warmed up. (Yes, everything in your house absorbs the heat from the stove) After that, it is a bit easier to maintain the temp.
BUT, I still float down at night: From say 74 to 66 on the top floor, a little colder in the 1st floor. In the old days, we'd come down in the morning and could see our breath in the cold; I think that's why the kids always had to go down and add firewood first, then the old folks got up.
If you really think you have been sold a bogus product for your application tell the dealer they recommended a unit that is too small and you want the bigger one, or a free standing stove. I've seen a number of dealers in this area bend to that pressure and provide the new product at the difference in price; worth a try if you get to that point. Step into it, tell them what you are thinking and ask if it does not work out would they do the upgrade for the difference in price; that way you'll get to get use to it and make sure it is too small.
Hope you find the sweet spot or they work with you and it all works out to your advantage.

 

[Shipper50]

Shipper, A properly chinked log home with 6" logs gets you a R - 19 or it wouldn,t pass the energy building code.

Jim

more like r=6 maybe.

Your telling me a home with logs 6x10 only have a r-value of 6 when a stick built house with 2x4 has what? I must have missed something somewhere in buying this house.

Shipper

 

[Shipper50]

Hey Shipper, all the questions come at you pretty quick; the folks are just trying to focus down on what might be causing you to either not get heat or to lose what you do get.
You won't get this in a day or a week; but after a few weeks of experimenting you will get to understand what that stove will and won't do. You will also benefit from a blockoff as others have said; just putting insulation in there is a shortcut and helps but not totally. Also, you should be sure they used the proper kind of insulation; the fiberglass stuff you use for home insulation is not correct, you need specialized insulation for this application.
The top block off is also a good idea, but as others have said too, does not keep all heat from bleeding out; in fact the blockoff at the bottom keeps it from going into the masonary mass where it gets absorbed. Some installers go as far as to fill the space around the liner; especially when the chimney is on an outside wall.
When my stove is cold and the house is cold it can take me a good day of burning to get everything warmed up. (Yes, everything in your house absorbs the heat from the stove) After that, it is a bit easier to maintain the temp.
BUT, I still float down at night: From say 74 to 66 on the top floor, a little colder in the 1st floor. In the old days, we'd come down in the morning and could see our breath in the cold; I think that's why the kids always had to go down and add firewood first, then the old folks got up.
If you really think you have been sold a bogus product for your application tell the dealer they recommended a unit that is too small and you want the bigger one, or a free standing stove. I've seen a number of dealers in this area bend to that pressure and provide the new product at the difference in price; worth a try if you get to that point. Step into it, tell them what you are thinking and ask if it does not work out would they do the upgrade for the difference in price; that way you'll get to get use to it and make sure it is too small.
Hope you find the sweet spot or they work with you and it all works out to your advantage.

I called the dealer today before posting this and he basically said I should call Regency and tell them their I3100 that I bought isn't putting out the heat its rated for. So I called the number the dealer told me not to tell Regency how I got it and now its in an email to them after talking to one of their reps.

I told the dealer today he recommended this insert and he and his people all said it would heat my house. Its family run business in Franklin Indiana and they have been in the fireplace business for 33 years. You would think he would make it right somehow, but he seemed to not really give a damn. I mean he has my money now doesn't he?

Shipper

 

[Hogwildz]

I understand your frustration, but before getting completely frazzled, take a couple weeks to learn the insert.
I suggest a block off plate regardless of what anyone says. Very least, it is safer and helps keep heat in instead of up. That insulation ain't gonna do much.
Load that bear up, and get it hot! On days like today, I cut my air back at 500, secondary takes it up to 700 or so, and its all heat for a decent 8 hrs after that.
House was up to 76 inside, at 8 hrs it dropped to 72, just loaded 20 mins ago and up to 73 already. Try burning hotter, I also have an insert and take thermo readings from the front above both door corners. Try running her full & wide open to 500, then cut the air back. If you do, let me know how it responds and heats or not?