wood stoves from china?

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ketoret

Member
Jan 9, 2008
72
Israel
Hi.

I live in Israel and American woodstoves are hard to come by here. There are local products, made mostly of steel, and cast iron stoves coming out of china. I know china's reputation on green issues, and i'm wondering if i should steer clear of their stoves, b/c i suspect little environmental testing has been done on them. Or are there things i can look for that will tell me if these are good burners?
 
I live in Israel and American woodstoves are hard to come by here. There are local products, made mostly of steel, and cast iron stoves coming out of china.

If at all possible i'd stay away from anything Chinese as I have yet to see any product that have much quality.....and specifically castings. For whatever reasons their castings are junk. With China, you get what you pay for and depending on the paint they use you may get some freebies ;-)

I know china's reputation on green issues, and i'm wondering if i should steer clear of their stoves, b/c i suspect little environmental testing has been done on them.

Unfortunately their green issues are the least of their problems.

Are there not any stoves readily available from Europe?. What would it cost to ship a stove from here to there on a boat??. Sorry i'm not much more help. The pond between us makes it difficult.
 
I'd think I could do better with something european, no? true, i would pay about 30% import tax on it, but even so, that wouldn't make it prohibitively expensive, just very expensive :smirk: (grin and bear it, or bare it, as the case may be). but there's also the shipping. now, a thought has occured to me, which is that we do have home despot over here, maybe they would special order me one of the englanders on their web page, but so far no joy in that area. I'm just a little suspicious of the workmanship of the local product, and eve more so of the chinese stuff. i'm glad, in a way, to hear your of the same mind.
 
I'd think I could do better with something european, no? true, i would pay about 30% import tax on it, but even so, that wouldn't make it prohibitively expensive, just very expensive

I'd at least look into it if there is nothing available local. I think if you bought a stove here the shipping would make it cost prohibitive. The closer to home you can get what you want the better i'd say.

now, a thought has occured to me, which is that we do have home despot over here, maybe they would special order me one of the englanders on their web page, but so far no joy in that area.

I'm not a home depot fan but if you can get a stove through them that may be your best bet. They are good most of the time with customer service so if you have problems they can probably help you out. I guess I'm surprised to hear that you have those stores over there.

Have you given thought about purchasing a used stove or is there slim pickings in that arena too??.
 
Wait a minute: aren't you in a desert ? Mostly warm year-round with no forest ? Where does your wood come from ?
 
Yes, deserts typically have a lower surface area of materials to hold heat and radiate that back into the atmosphere at night. Think sand & scrub vs. a forest that has huge trees & rocks. Thus, desert temp. often falls drastically at night. Not the same as a Canadian winter, but still.
 
Israel is not all desert. 1/3rd of the land is used to grow crops. Rainfall varies from place to place with only 1" annually in Elat and the surrounding desert, and up to 36" of rainfall in other zones.

I'm at the other end of the Med and it's semi-desert here (only 12" of rainfall annually and 315 days of sunshine) but there are still lots of trees. I've got about 100 trees in my garden and the only ones I water are the apples, oranges and lemons. The rest (pines, apricots, almonds, pomegranates, olives, figs, dates, pepper, etc) all, seem to be able to survive fine just with the light rainfall.
 
Back when, Vermont Castings stoves used to be available there - maybe through their European importer. One of the first questions I ever received back in 1995 was from someone in Israel that wanted to know if it was OK to burn certain wood in their Acclaim.

I wonder if Hergom (HearthStone - made by a Spanish company) exports there??

The problem with Chinese brands is that quality is all over the place. There might be some good ones, but it is hard to sort them out from the others. If, for instance, you find chinese stoves sold under a European brand name - they might be quite decent as the design and QC would be up to Euro standards.

But, all in all, it might be good (if the budget allows) to purchase a Morso, Jotul, VC or other highly regarded brand...just check that you will be able to get parts and stuff like that.
 
My son is heading to Israel this Saturday.

Just curious...business or pleasure?. If it's not something you want to answer that's fine.
 
ketoret said:
Hi.

I live in Israel and American woodstoves are hard to come by here. There are local products, made mostly of steel, and cast iron stoves coming out of china. I know china's reputation on green issues, and i'm wondering if i should steer clear of their stoves, b/c i suspect little environmental testing has been done on them. Or are there things i can look for that will tell me if these are good burners?

Welcome to the Hearth. I'm living in France and have a very helpful Jotul dealer just down the road. They sell another brand, too, but I forget which one. Anyhow, I'd be more than happy to price out a stove for you. If the price is reasonable, we could then figure out shipping costs either through the dealer, or a third party either on your side or the French side, to see if this option would be cost effective for you. I can't imagine it'd cost that much, considering we're only 2 time zones apart? The import tax will hurt, though. There are a couple more fire shops in the area that I could get prices from, too. Anyhow, let me know. You can PM if you'd like. I'd have my sister-in-law bring you a stove after her next visit here. She's living in Tel Aviv, but I think the stove might weigh just a bit more than what's allowed for carry-on!
 
Is there an import tax on items purchased on EBAY?
 
woodconvert said:
My son is heading to Israel this Saturday.

Just curious...business or pleasure?. If it's not something you want to answer that's fine.

A student trip where he gets to see just about everything.....he's in college, so no business yet! Just seeing the world during winter break. He's been to Europe and Canada and the West, etc...but never to the Middle East. I suspect he will learn a lot.

I tried to hitch a ride on Air Force one, but we didn't have the pull to get on :)
 
Whooooeeeeee! I just set off discourses in goegraphy, climatology, import-export, and the tour business. Such a varied forum this is!

Yep, it can get cold over here - not cold by most standards, but it getting down to below zero tonight (ok, that's C* and not F*, but still) and homes are generally not as well insulated either. I live up in the hills (we like to call them mountains, 'cause they're all we got), my house is at 800 m. of elevation. The first winter I lived here we got a meter of snow in one swell foop, but since then it's just been a few inches if any. If someone lets Al Gore know that, maybe we'll be on his next show. But like clownfish said, deserts are COLD! The coldest nights here are not when there's a front coming in off the Med - which usually moderates it, but when the wind comes from the east off the desert, dry, cold, and blowing hard.

But it is your typical med climate, or southern cal climate, with rain in the winter and none in the summer. I guess my area is semi-arid, but we've been planting the area pretty intensively. In addition to the indigenous olive trees and cedar/pines, we are high and cool enough to be a prime area for fruit orchards and wine grapes. Eucalyptus does ok - that's what I hope to be burning (any thoughts on that?) - although there is a stand of dead almond trees asking to be chopped down. I have pears, pomegranates, apricot, plum, apples, cherries, mulberries and olives in my yard. The only thing that has not done so well are citrus, but I keep trying.

Sidebar - not all Israel is semi-arid, though. Up north there are waterfalls and streams and forests, areas that remind me of my native Kentucky (no bluegrass, though). There are wetlands up there which are on the international migrating routes, and the bird-watching up there is phenomenal (I don't even LIKE birdwatching, and I think so).

I have been looking for used stoves, and I have seen a VC or two in people's homes over the years, but so far none for sale. There is a waterford 103 for sale that by the picture looks likes its been sitting outside for a while - it's a huge ol' thing, but I have a mostly open plan of about 90 sq. m. on my ground floor that is too large for my present kerosene stove - not to mention the price of kerosene here. Is there any way of eyeballing a new or used stove to figure out how good it is?

Thanks for the offer of bringing a stove over in your luggage. Maybe if we could find a bunch of people coming over, we could saw it into little pieces and then solder it back together. Would that work?

On a more serious note....drewmo, thanks for your kind offer, and I would be interested in hearing a quote. The reason I thought about going the way of home despot (as you can tell, i'm no fan of theirs either. But yes, we do have them here, and Ace, office despot - also on my list right now - that whole globalization thing, you know. starbucks failed here, though, which was kind of interesting. There's even a kosher KFC!) is that I figured they might be able to import it at a lower tax rate than personal import. swestall - the tax folk don't care WHERE you buy it, as long as they can get their percentage, like tax folk anywhere.

moondoggy, thanks for that link, i'll check it out. and thank all of you for your help. aside from keeping up with kentucky basketball, this is one of the best things the web does - putting one in touch with good, knowledgeable folk who like to help.
 
bokehman said:
ketoret said:
The only thing that has not done so well are citrus, but I keep trying.
The sweet ones are the most vulnerable.

now, ain't that always the case. :)

i'm nursing along a lemon and a citron, but tonight might do them in.
 
Webmaster said:
woodconvert said:
My son is heading to Israel this Saturday.

Just curious...business or pleasure?. If it's not something you want to answer that's fine.

A student trip where he gets to see just about everything.....he's in college, so no business yet! Just seeing the world during winter break. He's been to Europe and Canada and the West, etc...but never to the Middle East. I suspect he will learn a lot.

I tried to hitch a ride on Air Force one, but we didn't have the pull to get on :)

WOW, times have changed. Back when I was a lad a student trip was to Cedar Point in Sandusky OH..... ;-P
 
yeah, my grandparents lived in Lima and we'd go up to Cedar Point every year - still remember the salt water taffy there....

woodconvert - why do you burn your stove without the cat?
 
ketoret said:
yeah, my grandparents lived in Lima and we'd go up to Cedar Point every year - still remember the salt water taffy there....

woodconvert - why do you burn your stove without the cat?

Jeeze, small world.

As far as running without the cat....well, dunno if I had bad luck or not but the first three seasons of running through the cat I had to buy 3 replacement cats. The Jotul rep said the cats have a finite life and the amount of wood I burn their life wouldn't be real long...and they were not. After spending $150+ apiece for three years straight I decided I didn't want to play that game anymore. So I didn't. I do not recommend going the route I did and I REALLY don't recommend it with an all masonry chimney such as mine but it's the route I took. I did buy one last cat and have it sitting in the basement ready for install if I decide to go back. I may...but not anytime soon.

I think part of the problem I had was over drafting. After 4 or 5 hours running through the cat the chimney draw was too good and it would take off and I couldn't shut it down and parts of the stove would glow red that were not supposed to glow red. It's a spookey situation. Like I said, I may go back at some point but probably not anytime soon.
 
I would look closely at the Chinese stove, and if it seems okay, buy it. Yes most of their stuff is not so good, but their ability to cast iron seems good. I have a Chinese large arbor press and a Christmas tree stand cast from iron and both seem reasonably well made.

The Chinese stoves no doubt are not so efficient as modern Western stoves, but in your climate that should be acceptable. I assume you will have no trouble scrounging up free wood since there shouldn't be much competition. Dead trees, pallets, construction and demolition debris...
 
actually i have some contacts with forestry guys and hope i can get permission to haul out some deadwood or fell some trees in areas that need thinning out. sounds kind of strange for a country which is not known for greenery, but israel is one of the few places in the world that is reversing desertification through forestation. the jewish national fund has planted some crazy number of trees here over the past hundred years (i heard a quarter of a billion, but in a country long on tour guides, one has to start out skeptical) - up until recently they were mostly what's called Jerusalem pine, which grows quickly but has a short life span - some of those forests are already dying out and being replanted with a greater variety of trees - but i suppose pine is not such a great wood to burn. last year i was up in a north where they were cutting down HUGE eucalyptus trees in a nature reserve because they are not indigenous (seemed silly to me, but maybe it was having an effect on the local eco-system) - there are lots of groves of eucalyptus trees here, imported from Australia last century - people say to sop up the water in marshy areas, but i think more to use as windbreaks. i don't know how eucalyptus would do in a wood stove, but in a camp fire it's wonderful.

i should be a tour guide too.

i hear you one the chinese thing, but i'd hate to crank out more pollutants that i absolutely have to. i'm going to check and see what standards the government has set for emissions for wood stoves - we do have a UL standards type certification here, but the country is, after all, in the middle east and i wonder whether the standards are enforced, or if non- complying products can be sold.
 
I'm happy to hear that they're trying to de-desertify. Who knows, it just might work. I have read that some parts of the old world actually were much greener before the introduction of man, but since it's been overlogged for the last few thousand years, we think it should look the way it does.
I have also heard about a man who's trying to replant the Cedars of Lebanon. Good luck to him as well!

I think eucalyptus wood would be fine to burn, but then I burn all types of wood. They burn differently but so far I've had no problems with cedar or oak or fir, etc. Since I live in a city I scrounge whatever Yahweh provides, often I don't know exactly what it is.
 
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