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Woodstock Fireview. What to do if stove top gets hot.

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Backwoods Savage, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    In another thread I posted a different way to handle the Fireview when the stove top reaches the maximum temperature recommended by Woodstock. I figured it would be good for folks to see this so just in case they do not look back at the other thread, I will post it here.

    When the stove top temperature reaches or is close to 700 degrees, DO NOT CLOSE THE DRAFT. This will give you the opposite result that you are trying to achieve. Simply give it some more air. Yes, this sounds backwards, but it works. Kind of line moving the cool air into the warm; it sounds backwards but it works.


    This is what was posted before (with some little additions):

    I'll never forget the day when I came home to find my wife standing at the stove and afraid to walk away. I asked the normal question and she said she'd been fighting it for quite some time (had forgotten the instructions). Don't remember for sure but seems like at least 15 minutes but probably longer. She would open the bypass when the temperature got to 700 and when it dropped then she'd close the bypass again and repeat. I looked and sure enough, she had gone so far as to close the draft. Wrong! I told her to set it on 1 or a little above and she about freaked. But after convincing her, we opened the draft and watched the stove top temperature drop. If my memory is any good (which it is failing at times), the temperature dropped to around 650 within a very short time. It started dropping as soon as we gave it more air.

    I've checked the stove with the IR gun when we reach 700 degrees. Seems our gauge is off about 10 or 20 degrees so when it reads 700 it is actually slightly below. Checking the sides and front of the stove they are more like 400 degrees. Open the air some and the stove top will go down but the sides and front temperatures will increase some. This is good to know if we ever get some super cold air thrown at us. You can give the stove more air and although the stove top will not get as high, you will get more heat from the sides and front of the stove.

    If the stove is run with some flame, it is odd for ours to go over 700. Last night it looked like the pits of Hell in there with all sorts of flame and it still got to 650 but that is as high as it went. If I'd closed the draft some then it no doubt would have went over 700.
    BrianK and raybonz like this.

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  2. charly

    charly Guest

    Dennis,
    When you say it looks like the pits of hell what air setting were you on and for how long? Just curious. Thanks for the heads up..
    Charlie
  3. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Setting was at .75. Not sure how long it lasted. I went to bed about an hour after loading.
  4. charly

    charly Guest

    Thanks
  5. mfglickman

    mfglickman Minister of Fire

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    This advice helped me a lot when DH starte a full load and walked away early this winter. Pipe therm was in the red and stovetop high, don't remember what but high.

    I remembered Dennis posting this before so I opened the door, then shut it, and it sent a big gulp of heat into the room and almost immediately cooled the firebox. Weird but true.

    I think of it lime steering into a skid even though your instinct is to resist it.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  6. remkel

    remkel Minister of Fire

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    When I see my temps going too high i open the draft and then open the side door for a while, letting some cold air rush through the stove. Usually helps bring things under control.
  7. mattjm1017

    mattjm1017 Feeling the Heat

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    Thank you Dennis. Im not so sure that you don't work for Woodstock. This is really helpful you've been full of advice and help I really appreciate all of your help since ive joined this forum.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  8. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Matt, I can assure you that I am not employed by anyone at this time. ;)
    mattjm1017 likes this.
  9. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Yep, only times I saw any one of my Woodstock's get up into that 700 range is with a low cat burn and no flames. Give it a little more air to get some flame back and it will take some of the heat off the cat and cool that stove top temp. Even if it does get up there it never seems to last too long and I don't freak out like I use to.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  10. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Mine only got scary hot once, when I got distracted during a reload. Cat was not yet engaged. Air was relatively open,,,years ago, so I don't remember exact details. I shut the air, temp climbed another 15 degrees or so, in a couple of minutes, but fire was dying down. After about 15 minutes or so, stove was quiet, temp had dropped to an acceptable level, so I engaged the cat. with the air slightly open.

    I never knew to do as you suggest, Dennis. Unlike you, I did not like burning my stove over 550 or so. When it started to climb higher, I just shut the air off for a bit, and it always stopped climbing or came down...I always found it quite easy to stop the fire by closing the draft. Opening the air may very well work even better. May also get an instanteneous result, while my technique resulted in the stove taking a few minutes to start to cool...could be precious minutes if you were over 750.

    A question: since the side and front temps were fine when the stove top was hot, couldn't one just open the cat for a bit? That would cool the top, and with the stove that hot you'd still be getting a clean burn.

    Another question: Seems if one was burning as usual, and had the unusual happen, then either different or more wood, or high wind or really cold out? So...once one gets the stove operating at a nice stove top temp, does one leave the air open more than it originally was for the rest of the burn?

    I've never had the Fireview do that in the middle of a burn...always was at start -up if it got too hot for me.

    Bottom line, even when it was really hot, I never had the Fireview in a runaway, uncontrollable fire. A nice, and safe, stove. Every time it got hotter than I wanted, it was operator negligence at start up...not that that makes it any less of a problem.
  11. Bub381

    Bub381 Minister of Fire

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    You suppose another reason the cat cools is with that much air coming in the smoke is going through the cat so fast that not all is being burned.Also,if i close my stove to .75 i get back puff so i could correct this by closing the air down in increments ya think?
  12. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Yes, close her down to low burn mode in increments if you have back puffing issues. Sometimes very small adjustments go a long way in these stoves.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  13. Cross Cut Saw

    Cross Cut Saw Feeling the Heat

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    I've had similar experiences with my PH, it's a scary proposition to open that air since you end up with a crazy roaring fireball!
    I just stopped loading so much wood that it could even approach that hot, haven't been over 550 in a while, but we have some COLD weather in store for the next couple of weeks so I'm sure I'll be flirting with 600+ burns to keep the house warm...
  14. mattjm1017

    mattjm1017 Feeling the Heat

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    Ok what the heck am I doing wrong three times in a week the stove top has gotten to or a little over 700*. Each time was after a reload so im thinking that im reloading to soon or just plain wrong. What are the proper reload steps and also at what point should i reload?
  15. Cross Cut Saw

    Cross Cut Saw Feeling the Heat

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    I don't have a Fireview but based on my PH experience I would say:
    • Use less wood.
    • Reload at a lower temperature.
    • If you're fully shutting down the air then do it sooner, 400::F (I'd start at 400 and see what happens, then go higher from there until you push it but don't go over it...)
    It's hard to tell you what you might be doing wrong when I don't know what you are doing in the first place...

    That and I barely know what I'm doing :p
  16. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Dennis is the Fireview King, I'm sure he'll chime in.

    When I was burning a Fireview, I never had an issue with amount of wood. I think you can fill it right up. But with it so cold out, what may be happening is that your wood may be burning faster, and leaving more coals at the end of the burn. If you load on a lot of hot coals, the stove may get hot really fast. The Fireview tends to get hot suddenly, quite quickly. But, if you always watch it when loading, which can be frustrating with the Fireview because it can take half an hour to 45 minutes to get up to temp, then suddenly take off, then you shouldn't have a problem.

    First, IF you have a lot of coals, and the stove is starting to cool and it is cold out, then bypass the cat, open the air, stir the coals, including raking some of the larger coals from the back to the front, and add a small split to the stove (someone recently suggested putting a piece of bark in over the coals, which he said worked really well to burn down the coals. I had thought of doing that, but thought it eould add coals. He says no...so try bark if you want), then close the air about a quarter (leave it 3/4 open) and let the coals burn down. There will be some smoke coming off the new split, so once it is charred, engage the cat. Check things about an hour later. Feel free to disengage cat, open air, open door, stir coals, repeat.

    The Fireview will build up a very deep coal bed if you let it.

    Once you have a manageable level of coals, you have two options: build a fire for a long burn, or for a shorter burn.

    For a long burn, rake the coals to the front and the ash to the back. place your largest split at the back of the stove, then place the rest of your splits in as you can fit them. The larger the splits you use, in general, the longer your fire will burn and the more controllable it will be because there is less surface area off-gassing. So, since you have been having a problem with too high temperatures, try to use larger splits. Once the box is pretty full, close the door. Leave the air fully open until the fire is well caught, then close it just a bit. Then watch the stovetop temperature. When it gets to 200, engage the cat. Close the air down to 2 or 1 depending on how tall your chimney is/how much draft you have, and watch the fire and the stovetop temp. When the temp starts to rise (like if it at 300), then close the air to the setting you want to burn at--usually about .75 for me, but if really cold maybe.5. You should be fine then. Really don't think the stove will take off. When I did this the stove burned between 350-450or500.

    For a shorter burn, I would often suggest using smaller wood, which will give you a short hot burn, but with your issue with temps, for a shorter burn spread the coals evenly over the bottom of the firebox, then add larger splits. Follow the procedure above, but let the stovetop temp get to 250 before engaging the cat, at 300 close the air to slightly above 1, and watch the stove for a bit. Once it gets to about 450, close the air to 1 or slightly lower, and once it is at 500 close it to the setting you like to burn at (.5 to .75 likely. the stove should stay inthe 500s, then gradually drop.

    Hope this is helpful.
  17. fox9988

    fox9988 Minister of Fire

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    Disclosure: I have doubt that Dennis IS the FV king and gives good sound advice. This is my first year with the Keystone so I'm no expert. I'm burning a Keystone not a FV, but as I understand it, they burn nearly identical.

    I burn on 0 most of the time and have never had an over fire. My typical reload is a full load, on a hot bed of coals, stove top temp (STT)at 225. Bypass for 20 min, maintaining 450 on single wall pipe (STT unchanged), close the bypass and go straight to 0 on the draft. STT peaks at 550, levels off at 350 within 30 min. Perfect.
    As an experiment, I did a reload as usual the other night, but set the draft to 1. STT climbed to 625, I reduced draft to 0 and the STT dropped to 575 within 20 min (infrared verified,cherry red cat).
    I have 8' single wall and 8' class A straight up, burning ~23% Red Oak. My results may be unusual, but it might be worth a try.
    Anyone else burn on 0 with no problems?
  18. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Interesting.

    I burn at 0 often wth the PH, but couldn't with my Fireview. With a .5 or .75 setting, I had essentially the same experience as you. Only time it ever got hotter was when I got distracted during the start up of a load. Only difference, my STT did not usually go to 550. More like 450. If it was cold, and Itried for more heat, then 500 or slightly higher.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  19. charly

    charly Guest

    Anything under .5 and my Fireview seems to die out..I'm surprised as I come out of my stove with a double wall interior pipe that rises 3 feet then goes through the wall into a 22 foot masonry chimney with an insulated liner.. My internal flue temps seem to match my STT,, I actually thought I might have an overdraft situation, but,,,, then why would my stove want to go out when set below .5? Maybe I'm not charring my wood enough?
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  20. fox9988

    fox9988 Minister of Fire

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    Dennis's and Rideau's (FV) gets hot on 0.
    Mine is just right.
    And Charly's goes out.
    Interesting indeed.

    Anyone else?
  21. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    No, my PH gets hot on 0, my Fireview on .5 to.75, generally goes out on 0.
  22. fox9988

    fox9988 Minister of Fire

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    Sorry, I'm no following you. Is this correct:
    Your PH over fires on 0.
    Your FV goes out on 0, over fires on .5-.75. Do you set it at 1+?
  23. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Neither stove overfires, so maybe I mis-wrote. Am writing on two Fireview threads, maybe I got confused with the question?
    My Fireview burns properly, as hot as I want it, at 350-500, at a cat-engaged air setting of .5 to .75 (or did during the many years I heated with it).

    My PH burns a long low cat burn at about 325 at a setting of 0.

    The Fireview would NOT burn at 0, it went out.

    I have never had an overfire with either stove.

    The Fireview got up to 700 once, through operator neglect. I got distracted and left it before I had the cat engaged and air turned down. Got distracted several times over the years, but only the once for it to get hot enough to scare me. A cople of times it went over 600 and was climbing.

    I did find with the Fireview that it took 30-45 minutes most often to get the stovetop to 200, at which point I could engage the cat. But, if I got distracted and left the stoveroom for a few minutes, I might come back to a hot and rapidly getting hotter stove....it can take off very quickly at the right point, if the air is not shut down and the cat engaged. You can get a really roaring hot fire. BUT, close the air and the fire slows right down. Temp will continue to rise for a few minutes, then start to drop. Ten-15 minutes all flame will be gone from the firebox, then one can open the air a bit, wait a few minutes, then set it at the setting that works on one's stove for the long burn...with me, .5 to .75 depending on the weather and wind.

    PH on the other hand is REALLY quick to get to temp, and cat engaged. Wood is often burning before one finishes loading, charred in just a few minutes. Easy to engage the cat within about 15 minutes on a warm stove (could do it sooner, but general concensus seems to be to let the wood heat for a bit before engaging the cat). So one is much less apt to have a problem that pulls one from the stove between loading and engaging the cat. If the cat is engaged at a flue temp of about 450, on a decent bed of coals, the stove will burn at a 0 air setting for many, many hours with a stovetop temp around 325. This is where I usually burn...or with the air just slightly cracked..just a hair. In really cold weather, or if I just want to look at a really active fire for a few minutes, I open the air more. To get back to a slow, low cat burn, just close the air back down.

    The PH puts out a lot more heat from the same amount of wood compared to the Fireview. My theory is that the bigger window and angled fireback throw a lot more of the heat into the room, and a lot less up the chimney, in addition to the more efficient burn of the PH.
    fox9988 likes this.
  24. ddddddden

    ddddddden Minister of Fire

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    I usually end up at .5 - 1. Seems to be the Fv's sweet spot. Every setup/house is a lil' different. I live in the "tropics," so you'd think I would be burning with higher draft settings than folks in colder climates, but I have a 25' insulated liner plugged directly into the back of the stove. No sharp "T" angle, no leaky pipe joints, and ~23' vertical.

    If you are regularly burning on 0 without losing flame, there's a good chance that the air restrictor plate in your intake is off-track and letting in extra air. . .worth a quick look with a flashlight. The rod attached to the air control handle is attached to this plate at the other end, just look up under where the handle is located.
    charly likes this.
  25. charly

    charly Guest

    Good point about the air plate... .5 - 1 is where I run my Fireview as well.. Since installing the Fireview in November of this year,,,, yesterday was the first time I ever just left the stove draft at 1 for the whole burn,,, not turning it down,,,wow what a nice surprise it was for heat output,,, being that outside it was in the single digits all day. I will say it again,,, what a nice stove to run.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.

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