Regency F3500 Free Standing

[bholler]

Like I said earlier, I cut dead wood to begin with , stack it under vented cover, and let set a season. As I always cut a yr ahead. Stack the wood approx 4 ft from my stove. Week supply at a time. It is as dry as could be.
I know I don't have an over draft problem. My glass is fine. The by pass gasket is good as well as the probe.
I've been burning wood for about 30 yrs and have good knowledge with wood and stoves.
The stove controls the flame great with the air intake. I can shut it down great or let it go full burn. Most of the time in the winter it's open about 3/4 And is a great stove with the exception of the combustor burning to ash after a season.
the only thing I have not done is to get a factory rep to come check out the stove. Would love to do so.
I have sent the bad combustor back to the factory in Ga. I have even spoken to one of guys in charge At length about the problem.
As far as starting and maintaining a fire, We open the bypass , we start with kindling. Use a propane torch to get it started. Add as we get fire established. Wait approximately 10 to 15 mins when gets to temp , shut the bypass door. As we add wood. Before I open the door I open the bypass then door, add wood , shut the door , then shut the bypass.

Well there is the problem you are over firing it it should not be run 3/4 open for extended periods of time. Shut it back you will get more heat and won't cook your combusters.

 

[Hogwildz]

And if that wood is Oak, Hickory or similar hard wood, it ain't dry in a year, dead standing or not.

 

[Wolves1]

3/4 is way to much air with a full stove. 1/4 to just about closed, you should have small flames and a glowing cat. I’ve had a non cat and it’s the flames that give the heat with a cat stove it’s not the flames it’s the cat. It’s normal to get blackening of the glass in a cat stove regency or bk. If you have full clean glass all the time you maybe over firing the stove.

 

[Michigan f 3500 burner]

Well there is the problem you are over firing it it should not be run 3/4 open for extended periods of time. Shut it back you will get more heat and won't cook your combusters.

 

[Michigan f 3500 burner]

In my mind if I can't run it 3/4 then that stove sir isn't worth having.

 

[Squisher]

That's just not how modern stoves work, any of them, if you have proper draft.

Like many here I've burned my whole life too(42 years young). You can't compare operating a modern stove to a old pre-EPA design.

You need to monitor temps and run properly, otherwise you damage things or create unsafe creosote conditions, or both. Old stoves were much more forgiving.

Thermometer thermometer thermometer.

 

[bholler]

In my mind if I can't run it 3/4 then that stove sir isn't worth having.

But you need to know how the stove works. The first half of that air control is only used at startup or reloads to get things up to temp. It has always been that way even with old stoves that have the screw caps if you ran them 3/4 open all the time you would destroy the stove. And with your stove at 3/4 open you are getting less heat than if it was 1/2 open. You will not find a stove that you can run like that without hurting it. Other than ones like blazekings that have a thermostatic control and in those cases the stove will still not be running that far open it is just that the stove will shut itself back. You need to learn how to properly run your stove before bashing it for being junk.

 

[bholler]

That's just not how modern stoves work, any of them, if you have proper draft.

Like many here I've burned my whole life too(42 years young). You can't compare operating a modern stove to a old pre-EPA design.

You need to monitor temps and run properly, otherwise you damage things or create unsafe creosote conditions, or both. Old stoves were much more forgiving.

Thermometer thermometer thermometer.

But even those old stoves were not run 3/4 open all the time

 

[Wolves1]

I’m sorry to hear that, but that is how a cat stove works. If you don’t want to operate the stove the way it’s meant to be operated there is nothing we can do to help. If you give it a shot and do it properly you will see it is an extremely efficient stove that give lots of heat but you will need a new cat for you to get the proper heat.

 

[Squisher]

But even those old stoves were not run 3/4 open all the time

Very true. It's temperatures that matter most. But my point was that it seems to me a older pre-EPA stove could be overfired more mercilessly than a modern re-burn stove. Not that it should be run that way regardless.

 

[bholler]

Very true. It's temperatures that matter most. But my point was that it seems to me a older pre-EPA stove could be overfired more mercilessly than a modern re-burn stove. Not that it should be run that way regardless.

Agreed

 

[begreen]

In my mind if I can't run it 3/4 then that stove sir isn't worth having.

This is most likely why the cat has been destroyed. It sounds like the stove is overfiring. The position for the air control is relative to the draft, the wood being burned and desired temperature. The last item is within the limits of the stove. With good dry wood and good draft the air control should be set lower for normal running. From the manual:
Draft is the force which moves air from the appliance up through the chimney. The amount of draft in your chimney depends on the length of the chimney, local geography, nearby obstructions and other factors. Too much draft may cause excessive temperatures in the appliance and may damage the catalytic combustor. Inadequate draft may cause back puffing into the room and plugging of the chimney or catalyst.

The operation of this stove is clearly different from the previous experience. What stove did you have prior to the F3500? Do you have a stovetop thermometer on the stove to watch for overfiring?

It is possible this is the wrong stove for your application. To determine that we need to understand better why it is being pushed hard.

 

[Hogwildz]

But even those old stoves were not run 3/4 open all the time

And trying to burn a new stove like an old smoke dragon, is exactly why you burned up the cat. Just goes to show, burning 30 yrs means nothing. Burning 30 years the wrong way, does not constitute much, except burning the wrong way.
All that heat up and out, rather than heating the house.
Unless you want to change your thinking, and burning habits. You might as well sell that thing and go back to an old smoke dragon.
Always the stoves fault, never the operator.....

 

[NYdeplorable]

Hello,

I am new to this forum and noticed you previously had a detailed discussion about the regency F3500. I have owned and operated a regency F3500 for 2 1/2 heating seasons now in upstate NY. It is our primary source of heat in a new construction home that is pretty efficent. We have averaged about 4 1/2 cords a season and our home is 2200 square foot. The stove efficiently heats our home and I have had to complaints so far. I recently noticed that the steel plate inside where the bypass damper is, was bowed and bent in the middle. Further examination indicated that a nut was missing from the front center bolt, thus allowing the metal to heat up and warp. I attempted to loosen with a ratchet the front right nut, so that I could take the metal plate off and try to bend it back and install a new nut on the bolt, and the bolt snapped off. Have you seen many of these incidents, it seems to me that it may be a failure in the material of the steel bolts that hold this metal shroud up ?

Thank you for your time

Kevin

 

[bholler]

Hello,

I am new to this forum and noticed you previously had a detailed discussion about the regency F3500. I have owned and operated a regency F3500 for 2 1/2 heating seasons now in upstate NY. It is our primary source of heat in a new construction home that is pretty efficent. We have averaged about 4 1/2 cords a season and our home is 2200 square foot. The stove efficiently heats our home and I have had to complaints so far. I recently noticed that the steel plate inside where the bypass damper is, was bowed and bent in the middle. Further examination indicated that a nut was missing from the front center bolt, thus allowing the metal to heat up and warp. I attempted to loosen with a ratchet the front right nut, so that I could take the metal plate off and try to bend it back and install a new nut on the bolt, and the bolt snapped off. Have you seen many of these incidents, it seems to me that it may be a failure in the material of the steel bolts that hold this metal shroud up ?

Thank you for your time

Kevin

That looks pretty badly overfired. What temps do you run it at?

 

[Woody Stover]

That looks pretty badly overfired. What temps do you run it at?

My guess is bringing the stove up to temp on a new load, with the air wide open. By the time the stove gets up to temp, you've had big fire funneling toward the bypass opening for some time.
I seldom have the air wide open for very long at all. I bend down and look in the box often on startup; Once bigger flames starts making it to the bypass opening, I'm cutting some air.

 

[bholler]

My guess is bringing the stove up to temp on a new load, with the air wide open. By the time the stove gets up to temp, you've had big fire funneling toward the bypass opening for some time.
I seldom have the air wide open for very long at all. I bend down and look in the box often on startup; Once bigger flames starts making it to the bypass opening, I'm cutting some air.

What is that guess based on? Many of us operate our stoves that way including myself with absolutely no problems.

 

[NYdeplorable]

That looks pretty badly overfired. What temps do you run it at?

thank you for the reply.

To be honest I guess I wouldn’t know the exact temperature, I have a pipe thermometer that I monitor and when it gets to the bottom of the wasting fuel section I’ll shut the door, flip back the bypass lever and damper down 90% when I have a loaded box. I guess that would make sense if it’s been over fired, raising the temperature to the point where the metal bolts failed.

The problem is the dealer who installed it doesn’t normally install wood stoves I don’t think, they’re mainly a hvac company who sells regency. I was never shown the proper way to run this stove and only had limited knowledge running wood stoves from my childhood, and the instruction Manual that came with the stove. What would be the proper way to monitor the temperature inside the stove so that this wouldn’t have occurred?


Does this seem like a repairable issue given I already snapped a bolt trying to remove the plate ?

Greatly appreciate your time and industry knowledge

 

[bholler]

thank you for the reply.

To be honest I guess I wouldn’t know the exact temperature, I have a pipe thermometer that I monitor and when it gets to the bottom of the wasting fuel section I’ll shut the door, flip back the bypass lever and damper down 90% when I have a loaded box. I guess that would make sense if it’s been over fired, raising the temperature to the point where the metal bolts failed.

The problem is the dealer who installed it doesn’t normally install wood stoves I don’t think, they’re mainly a hvac company who sells regency. I was never shown the proper way to run this stove and only had limited knowledge running wood stoves from my childhood, and the instruction Manual that came with the stove. What would be the proper way to monitor the temperature inside the stove so that this wouldn’t have occurred?


Does this seem like a repairable issue given I already snapped a bolt trying to remove the plate ?

Greatly appreciate your time and industry knowledge

It may be fixable but it is certainly questionable. You could try getting it replaced under warranty but I would not be surprised if they deny the claim because of overfireing

 

[Woody Stover]

What is that guess based on? Many of us operate our stoves that way including myself with absolutely no problems.

As I said, it's a guess, but I based it on the appearance that the worst warping is near the bypass opening, and not as much above the rear tube. I'll grant you that the bypass area is inherently more prone to warping since it's less reinforced, and we don't have a good pic of the entire firebox to see other potential damage. But his subsequent description of his startup procedure would support the theory that it's not an overfire when running..he has the air closed 90%. Sure, an overfire when cruising could still happen in some cases, even at 10% air. But he said he has the door open when bringing the stove to temp, and doesn't shut it until the pipe meter is to the "wasting fuel" range.
It sounds like he's using a Condar WoodSaver. I'm using the same meter on my SIL's stove, and I'm already cutting air and looking for secondary action when it gets to the bottom of the "best operation" zone. Running the meter that high with the door open, the area around the bypass is getting absolutely hammered by huge flame, like a blast furnace, so I still think it's a pretty good guess I made.
But I agree that if the operator doesn't overdo it, you can safely have the air wide open for a while without damaging the stove. I just don't see the point of doing that for more than a few minutes, to get the load burning..not to bring the stove up to temp. I'd rather run medium flame and give the interior of the stove time to absorb the flame heat, instead of running it wide open and sucking the flame around the baffle and up the flue. I don't think the stove will heat up much faster, if any faster, running it wide open, so why risk chimney or stove damage by doing so, when it can get away from you quickly?
It probably burns through more wood as well. It's concentrating the heat in fewer areas instead of distributing the heat more evenly as a more moderate fire does. I think it results in more stress on the stove over the long haul.
That's just the way I think about it. You may think differently, and that's fine. You also swap out stoves every five years, so maybe you're less concerned with how long a stove lasts. To each, his own, when it comes to how they want to run their stove.

To be honest I guess I wouldn’t know the exact temperature, I have a pipe thermometer that I monitor and when it gets to the bottom of the wasting fuel section I’ll shut the door, flip back the bypass lever and damper down 90% when I have a loaded box.

So where does the flue meter settle in, a while after you've cut the air to 10%?

 

[NYdeplorable]

As I said, it's a guess, but I based it on the appearance that the worst warping is near the bypass opening, and not as much above the rear tube. I'll grant you that the bypass area is inherently more prone to warping since it's less reinforced, and we don't have a good pic of the entire firebox to see other potential damage. But his subsequent description of his startup procedure would support the theory that it's not an overfire when running..he has the air closed 90%. Sure, an overfire when cruising could still happen in some cases, even at 10% air. But he said he has the door open when bringing the stove to temp, and doesn't shut it until the pipe meter is to the "wasting fuel" range.
It sounds like he's using a Condar WoodSaver. I'm using the same meter on my SIL's stove, and I'm already cutting air and looking for secondary action when it gets to the bottom of the "best operation" zone. Running the meter that high with the door open, the area around the bypass is getting absolutely hammered by huge flame, like a blast furnace, so I still think it's a pretty good guess I made.
But I agree that if the operator doesn't overdo it, you can safely have the air wide open for a while without damaging the stove. I just don't see the point of doing that for more than a few minutes, to get the load burning..not to bring the stove up to temp. I'd rather run medium flame and give the interior of the stove time to absorb the flame heat, instead of running it wide open and sucking the flame around the baffle and up the flue. I don't think the stove will heat up much faster, if any faster, running it wide open, so why risk chimney or stove damage by doing so, when it can get away from you quickly?
It probably burns through more wood as well. It's concentrating the heat in fewer areas instead of distributing the heat more evenly as a more moderate fire does. I think it results in more stress on the stove over the long haul.
That's just the way I think about it. You may think differently, and that's fine. You also swap out stoves every five years, so maybe you're less concerned with how long a stove lasts. To each, his own, when it comes to how they want to run their stove.
View attachment 257357
So where does the flue meter settle in, a while after you've cut the air to 10%?

At this point I think your guess seems most plausible. I guess I was operating my current stove the same way I operated the wood stove that was 30 years old in my parents house. Although I was conscious not to over fire the pipe by monitoring the pipe thermometer, it seems plausible and likely the temperature of the bypass area was much greater, thus causing the middle bolt holding the plate up to fail over time. I have that same stove pipe thermometer you posted above, and it settles in about 1/2-3/4 of the way in the white section once I shut the door, flip the bypass lever back and damper down to about 90% closed.

I am a little skeptical that this won't happen again after I replace the bypass shield/plate under warranty or not. It just doesn't seem logical to have bolts that hold together a functional piece of the stove inside and in direct contact with flames and heat. It seems like it would be an obvious point of failure, at some point, even with not overfiring, consistent high heat and direct flames over time will probably cause failure. It's probably safe to say the simplcity of the older stoves are a thing of the past.

I appreciate everyone's insight. I have scheduled a reputable Regency dealer and installer to come inspect this problem on Monday, and will keep my fingers crossed that it will be covered under warranty. I'm ready to turn our forced hot air off and get back to burning wood!!

 

[NYdeplorable]

As I said, it's a guess, but I based it on the appearance that the worst warping is near the bypass opening, and not as much above the rear tube. I'll grant you that the bypass area is inherently more prone to warping since it's less reinforced, and we don't have a good pic of the entire firebox to see other potential damage. But his subsequent description of his startup procedure would support the theory that it's not an overfire when running..he has the air closed 90%. Sure, an overfire when cruising could still happen in some cases, even at 10% air. But he said he has the door open when bringing the stove to temp, and doesn't shut it until the pipe meter is to the "wasting fuel" range.
It sounds like he's using a Condar WoodSaver. I'm using the same meter on my SIL's stove, and I'm already cutting air and looking for secondary action when it gets to the bottom of the "best operation" zone. Running the meter that high with the door open, the area around the bypass is getting absolutely hammered by huge flame, like a blast furnace, so I still think it's a pretty good guess I made.
But I agree that if the operator doesn't overdo it, you can safely have the air wide open for a while without damaging the stove. I just don't see the point of doing that for more than a few minutes, to get the load burning..not to bring the stove up to temp. I'd rather run medium flame and give the interior of the stove time to absorb the flame heat, instead of running it wide open and sucking the flame around the baffle and up the flue. I don't think the stove will heat up much faster, if any faster, running it wide open, so why risk chimney or stove damage by doing so, when it can get away from you quickly?
It probably burns through more wood as well. It's concentrating the heat in fewer areas instead of distributing the heat more evenly as a more moderate fire does. I think it results in more stress on the stove over the long haul.
That's just the way I think about it. You may think differently, and that's fine. You also swap out stoves every five years, so maybe you're less concerned with how long a stove lasts. To each, his own, when it comes to how they want to run their stove.
View attachment 257357
So where does the flue meter settle in, a while after you've cut the air to 10%?

I would say after closing the by pass, shutting the door, and dampering down, it settles in about 1/3-1/2 way in the white after about 10-20 mins, that would be my best guess.

 

[bholler]

I would say after closing the by pass, shutting the door, and dampering down, it settles in about 1/3-1/2 way in the white after about 10-20 mins, that would be my best guess.

That is to hot to be cruising at. You should be shutting down sooner. And the door should be closed after a few mins

 

[NYdeplorable]

That is to hot to be cruising at. You should be shutting down sooner. And the door should be closed after a few mins

Understood, appreciate your time and knowledge. Any ideas on the cost of a new bypass door assembly ? Curious as to how much damage I caused,negating the time and money I saved by cutting and splitting my own firewood!

 

[bholler]

Understood, appreciate your time and knowledge. Any ideas on the cost of a new bypass door assembly ? Curious as to how much damage I caused,negating the time and money I saved by cutting and splitting my own firewood!

I have no clue of the price. I am concerned that is not the only damage there.