Processing Firewood for a living?

[Eightball1313]

Hi all, thought this may be an interesting thread to start.
Anyone process and sell firewood for a living? Or know anyone who does? Im talking mass volume, say 500-1000+ cords a year.

My uncle just recently sold his processor, but he used to sell anywhere from 600-1000 cords a year. With buying the logs and selling at $210 a cord (hardwoods only). After everything is paid off, and not including other bills and expenses, id say he would profit $100 a cord, so 60k-100k a year cash doing so. Of course you need to subtract out fuel cost, maintenance, insurance, but i think after all that you could make a living doing so. i mean ive seen him do it!

I know its a lot of hard work, but im considering taking the plunge and trying to replicate his sales. I see/hear a lot of negative feedback on the idea. "you cant make money if you buy the logs" type things. I think its all about volume, the market is there so the sky is the limit, why not!? Been looking around at a few different processors, i dont think you need a 160K multitek processor to cut and sell 1000 cords a year, i think it could be done with a 60k processor, one thats big enough to accept log truck length logs up to 24' long and what not. Time is money, and the way i see it, if your time is spent cutting firewood then you will profit, you just need to do it and not dream about it.

Thought it would be interesting to see what everyone thinks?

 

[Bad LP]

Was this topic not covered a few months back?

All I know is the timber companies raised the prices to harvesters and Weyerhaeuser is cutting my area in Maine hard. More activity than I've seen in many years.

 

[Eightball1313]

Was this topic not covered a few months back?

All I know is the timber companies raised the prices to harvesters and Weyerhaeuser is cutting my area in Maine hard. More activity than I've seen in many years.

It probably was covered, but im not a super frequent to this site so i dont stay up to date with all the forums on here. ill have to read through some! I defiintely feel like now is a good time tos tart cutting though with everything going on

 

[SpaceBus]

It's a hard living. Your uncle may have GROSSED 60-100k/year, but like you said, fuel isn't free and neither was the firewood processor, among many other things that eat up profit. The highest return on investment would be making small bundles/bags of kiln dried hardwood to sell to campers, gas stations, hardware stores, etc. Selling wholesale cordwood to people burning it year after year can be more consistent business, but it won't make as much profit.

Do you have the capitol to acquire a processor, loader, and other tools required for large scale cordwood sales?

 

[weatherguy]

My brother in law has done it his whole life and made a very good living. He never bought a processor, he made a homemade splitter and did it all by hand. He's in his late 60s now and semi retired, I still get most of my wood from him. He does have some equipment, a tractor, huge two cord dump truck but the dude is hard worker.

 

[Nealm66]

I have a couple friends that do it. It may be different where you’re at but one of my friends (I contracted the timber falling for all three ) started his logging business by logging parcels that didn’t have a lot( or enough) merch timber to profit just by logging alone. He’s now a multi millionaire. I left when he went to all mechanized logging and wanted to finance me a feller buncher ( at least a million) . The others are similar but in reverse. The firewood business is a useful way to eliminate waste on logging and tree jobs but if you can see where I’m going with this. It’s not a huge money maker and more of a pita but the idea can be sold to a potential customer to beat out competition on large money making jobs.

 

[Eightball1313]

It's a hard living. Your uncle may have GROSSED 60-100k/year, but like you said, fuel isn't free and neither was the firewood processor, among many other things that eat up profit. The highest return on investment would be making small bundles/bags of kiln dried hardwood to sell to campers, gas stations, hardware stores, etc. Selling wholesale cordwood to people burning it year after year can be more consistent business, but it won't make as much profit.

Do you have the capitol to acquire a processor, loader, and other tools required for large scale cordwood sales?

Well at 200 a cord id say he would gross 120-200k a year, and profit 60k-100k, thats just what i understand from strictly just subtracting out the costs of buying the wood.

I have a loader already, and i could get a processor and believe it will pay itself off ina year or so if i put so much money down on it ya know?

It's a hard living. Your uncle may have GROSSED 60-100k/year, but like you said, fuel isn't free and neither was the firewood processor, among many other things that eat up profit. The highest return on investment would be making small bundles/bags of kiln dried hardwood to sell to campers, gas stations, hardware stores, etc. Selling wholesale cordwood to people burning it year after year can be more consistent business, but it won't make as much profit.

Do you have the capitol to acquire a processor, loader, and other tools required for large scale cordwood sales?

yeah i already have a loader and the property to do it at. Buy a half decent mason dump for cash and then the two big things i think would be the processor and the conveyor, could always find a used conveyor for cheaper.

From what i understand is, at $200 a cord and buying the logs, you can basically split the gross income in half to get a net income of 60-100k (600-1000 cords at $200 a cord would be $120-200k gross). maybe im looking at it wrong? I think then at the end of the year you can prolly say you spend another 10k on odds and ends and fuel and what not, just estimating. But it still sounds profitable to me, but again maybe im just dreaming lol

 

[weatherguy]

My BIL averages one cord per day, works every day though so probably does 300+ a year at $220 per cord, all under the table. He used to work at a machine shop full time in addition to cutting wood with his brother. Its profitable but hard work.

 

[MongoMongoson]

Consider health insurance. A lot of people (like me) get it through their employer.

If your family situation allows you to be covered by someone else's health insurance, that's great. If not, it will be a big expense and one you just might need. No matter how you do it, firewood processing is more dangerous than sitting behind a desk in the short term... all that exercise might just put you ahead in the long run as long as you don't blow out your back, or your guts, or do something even more dramatic.

If you currently get your health insurance through your employer, do a little research on what it will cost you to be on your own paying for it.

If you can get Terry Bradshaw to be your spokesman and put the firewood in cute little boxes, you can sell it for crazy amounts of money.

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When I saw that, I started to think boutique firewood might be the way to make some real money at reduced volumes. Depends on where you live. Where I grew up, you could forget about it. People are too practical and in general don't have the disposable income. But if you are making deliveries or selling subscriptions to the rich folks of Chicago... it could be doable.

 

[Corey]

Big thing around here seems to be running a tree trimming / arborist business all spring/summer/fall and a firewood business during the winter. That way you're paid to cut the trees, then paid again for the wood.

But guess it sort of depends on any individual situation and exactly how 'formal' the business is. If you have access to 'free' wood...both direct cost and minimal gas/time/energy expended and you sell for 'cash' as a side racket, then that would seem to be a fairly good return. But if you have to pay for the wood, process it, then pay gas, taxes, health insurance, maintenance, upkeep, etc out of that, seems like the margins would be a lot thinner. Though again, if you formally make it officially a small business LLC, a lot of things might become tax deductible, so there could again be some benefit there.

 

[Simonkenton]

I have thought about doing the same thing on a part time basis. I just love to saw up and split firewood. I just use a Fiskars maul never have had a splitter. In fact, as of 11 am today my wood piles are all full and I CAN'T CUT ANY MORE FIREWOOD. Dammit. Got to wait till next year I guess.

Still, doing it professionally would take most of the fun out of it. A lot of hard work and it would be easy to get hurt running those chain saws and splitters so much.

 

[EbS-P]

Came across a you tube video from a guy in Ohio(I think) explaining how is firewood company was established and how it started and now works today. His take away was that as an entrepreneur he was a problem solver first. A restaurant could not source sufficient dry firewood. A high end customer didn’t like the mess and wanted stacked a certain way. Anyway I liked that retrospective assessment. Here is the video. The title is is a bit click baity.

 

[CreosoteCowboy]

Great video, @EbS-P.

To @Eightball1313 , producing commodity firewood at $210/cord in volume is probably not all that great of a model. Even if the figures work out, it's going to be brutal work for not that much money. You'd probably bring home about 50% of your "net" figure above if you run this as a legit business with liability and health insurance, sales tax, property tax, equipment costs, and fuel. Does making $30-50k/year in exchange for 600-1000 cords of wood seem like a good way to make a living to you?

On the other hand, the model that's probably great is what the Ohio Woodburner guy describes: small volume, premium product, and ultra-convenient.

If you're in the Poconos, how about setting up a fireplace bundle delivery service for the New York metro? People place orders via a website, and on Thursdays or Fridays each week you drive a big truck down to the city and deliver fireplace bundles of nicely packaged dry wood to their doorsteps for $50 or $60 each. Betcha you could get $10,000 worth of bundles (200 bundles @ $50/each) on an F650 with a stake bed, and you could do it every week of the winter once you built up a client base. You'd bring in $250k+/gross, with much lower expenses because you'd be buying far less wood and you'd need less equipment. You could run this whole thing with nothing but a chainsaw, a maul, a truck, and a good internet connection.

The business I describe above is maybe 30% firewood making, and 70% marketing, administration, communication, and delivery. Lots of guys who make firewood don't want that business model, but it's the profitable one.

 

[SpaceBus]

Great video, @EbS-P.

To @Eightball1313 , producing commodity firewood at $210/cord in volume is probably not all that great of a model. Even if the figures work out, it's going to be brutal work for not that much money. You'd probably bring home about 50% of your "net" figure above if you run this as a legit business with liability and health insurance, sales tax, property tax, equipment costs, and fuel. Does making $30-50k/year in exchange for 600-1000 cords of wood seem like a good way to make a living to you?

On the other hand, the model that's probably great is what the Ohio Woodburner guy describes: small volume, premium product, and ultra-convenient.

If you're in the Poconos, how about setting up a fireplace bundle delivery service for the New York metro? People place orders via a website, and on Thursdays or Fridays each week you drive a big truck down to the city and deliver fireplace bundles of nicely packaged dry wood to their doorsteps for $50 or $60 each. Betcha you could get $10,000 worth of bundles (200 bundles @ $50/each) on an F650 with a stake bed, and you could do it every week of the winter once you built up a client base. You'd bring in $250k+/gross, with much lower expenses because you'd be buying far less wood and you'd need less equipment. You could run this whole thing with nothing but a chainsaw, a maul, a truck, and a good internet connection.

The business I describe above is maybe 30% firewood making, and 70% marketing, administration, communication, and delivery. Lots of guys who make firewood don't want that business model, but it's the profitable one.

You said it better than I could. It would be great if I could make an honest living wage splitting wood and bucking logs all day, but it just isn't there. I think your 30-70 figure probably works for a lot of situations involving small business.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

All of this is just speculation.. What you need to do is sit down and ACTUALLY figure out what you overhead is.. this would be the cost of the equipment payments say over 5 years, rough estimate of fuel cost basic maintenance and the cost of purchasing the material.. also you could go on the scrounge and grab up some wood... don't guess.. sit down and figure it out.. only then will you be able to sit down and see if it's worth doing..

 

[Bad LP]

Location. Location. Location.
Around here in MA one can rap# and pillage so much easier than in Maine for a tree.
My landscaper has a place in Maine that he bought from his grandparents in order to carry on family tradition. He loves it and thinks nothing of a 3 hour ride one way. My wife and I have seen his Christmas tree operation first hand. He works very hard at it and his family has deep roots in both locations.
He was telling me about other growers setting up shop in NYC selling trees as well as trailer loads of reefer trucks hauling them to FL.

I imagine CSD firewood is the same deal. It’s been a while from by normal runs to Logan AP in Boston but we ran thru Cambridge and the prices for a little bundle of dry wood was obscene. Cheaper to burn their BMW’s and Range Rovers than firewood if measured by the pound.

 

[weatherguy]

One year I saw an as in Craigslist for 6 cords for $800 split. I called him only catch was I had to haul myself. He's a firewood dealer and cut 6 cords 20-21 inches long for a customer with an OWB, the guy moved and he was stuck with this too long wood. MY PH handled it so I bought it all. He told me he gets truck loads from up north cheap, didn't tell me where but he seemed to be making decent money.

 

[Nealm66]

I think it can be successful but don’t get stuck in a rut. Hire help and grow. Establish a good business plan and keep everything on the up and up.

 

[wooddope]

Don't know about your local area but I have a cousin in southern NH who inherited a firewood operation after his Dad passed. All of the equipment is free and clear but he had to spend roughly 20k to get everything back in working order. Nothing major just some neglected maintenance and refitting a delivery truck. In the 2 years since he has struggled to recoup half of the money spent. His cost of logs went up and with the low price of heating oil the phone's not ringing much. He has set a fairly high price for the product but it's not absurd for this area. Talking with him a few weeks ago he stated if sales don't get better this year he is considering closing it down. He has a full time job so he's not dependent on the income, but he said with the fixed costs and effort needed to keep it operating it may take years to turn a profit. To be fair his Dad was sick for a few years and the business went idle but there was a span of a decade when he did at least 200 cord or more per year. Lastly if you want to sell dry wood you need to have it processed and air dried for 2 yrs, that's gonna tie up some dough.

 

[CreosoteCowboy]

You said it better than I could. It would be great if I could make an honest living wage splitting wood and bucking logs all day, but it just isn't there. I think your 30-70 figure probably works for a lot of situations involving small business.

I know way too many guys who have been totally focused on making the best product or service possible, with the presumption that a good product will pretty much sell itself.

The product has to be adequate and meet expectations, but most successful businesses realize that what makes them successful is good marketing, communication, and customer service.

It's too bad to watch a guy with the best product on the market struggle while the guy with the clearly inferior product succeeds from spending 70% of his time on his website, ginning up Yelp reviews, posting to Instagram, and whatever else, but that's the game.

 

[blades]

any niche biz is all about marketing-

 

[SpaceBus]

I know way too many guys who have been totally focused on making the best product or service possible, with the presumption that a good product will pretty much sell itself.

The product has to be adequate and meet expectations, but most successful businesses realize that what makes them successful is good marketing, communication, and customer service.

It's too bad to watch a guy with the best product on the market struggle while the guy with the clearly inferior product succeeds from spending 70% of his time on his website, ginning up Yelp reviews, posting to Instagram, and whatever else, but that's the game.

I'm not willing to spend that much of my time online, so that will not be me!

 

[hickoryhoarder]

I haven't processed much wood at all, and that with two-man buck saws and mauls. But I do consult on business decisions. And am aware no one in my area sells firewood as a main job.

I'd think of it in dollars/hour. And my hunch is you'd net $5-10/hour. If you're willing to put in the hours, you might be able to net $25,000-30,000 per year.

There are reasons most people who do this have another job. Or two other jobs, or other things they sell. For instance, a guy I knew in Vermont worked for the forestry service, had a Christmas tree farm, maple syrup operation, and sold firewood. His wife was a part-time social worker and ran their home as a B&B.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

guys.... were no where near marketing... and your guessing someone's net earnings... he nees to sit down and actually see if it's worth it to him to do this.. He needs to figure out the overhead
. what he thinks he can sell in quantity and what to sell for and what would be left over as profit or his income..

 

[SpaceBus]

First he has to do the research and find out if there is really a market for the firewood. Sounds like his uncle stopped many years ago and his clients likely found new suppliers. Without a potential customer base there isn't even any point in finding out the possible net income.