P68 motor/auger not working in test

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SininStyle

Burning Hunk
Mar 8, 2013
161
Test won't turn on auger but shows motor is on. No sound from the motor that I can hear but both fans kick on. I grabbed the auger inside and its not "loose" but I can get it to wiggle enough to know its free from the side wall.
Is it ok to manually turn it without damage to make sure its not clogged?
Would an error appear if I tried to run it to tell me what's wrong? (trying this now)
Fines bin is clear, feeder in the pellet bin moves by hand. This worked at the end of last year.
 
Happened to me a long time ago while stove was on. Turned out the ignitor compartment was packed full of fines.

Check that. Make sure the wing nuts are tightly secured, fines cover is seated properly, and hopper lid is fully sealed. Tighten the lid latch a few turns Check door gaskets (dollar bill test, adjust door latch). Make sure the air flapper moves freely and vent pipe is cleared.

If all is well, i suspect a bad vaccum switch.
 
I think @miteclipse hit everything.

The auger won't turn while in test if a door is ajar, a seal is broke (too much air coming thru worn door gaskets), the exhaust is plugged, the air intake is blocked or the air path severely disrupted/diverted. I've had times I thought all doors were closed, but it turned out the ash pan door was not completely latched. The igniter compartment full of ash would certainly plug up the air intake. On some models the hopper door needs to be tightly latched also - or at least the door sensor rod needs to be compressed.
 
Cleaned out the ignitor, cleaned out the fines box, cleaned the ESP. Also pinched the door seal to fluff it up for one good seal to test that. Nothing.
 
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The hopper lid is the usual suspect, unless I missed you trying that.
 
ran test again and stuck my hand on the pot. doesnt feel warm at all not even a little. Does the ignitor turn on for a test? Guess i could just turn it on to try to run it normal and see if it gets hot then.
 
No heat from ignitor but not entirely sure what order this goes in. Obviously not a tech.
 
Left back side of stove next to the auger/auger motor
Don't think mine comes with it. Don't see anything. googled the tube and I see what it looks like. Seems to be for a "gummy fix" but earlier P68 didn't come with one from what I read. Could be wrong, cant see well up in there but should be right near the air intake.
 
Any chance you could post some pics of the back of your stove and maybe the hopper with the lid up?
 
Any chance you could post some pics of the back of your stove and maybe the hopper with the lid up?
going to spin it around and open it up tomorrow. will take some pics if i remember.
Going to direct connect the auger motor to see if its functional to either rule it out or narrow it down.
I assumed a failing igniter wouldnt cause the auger to not go because people complain of unburned pellets in the pot with a dead igniter. So dont think its that. Must just know the motor isnt sending pellets. light shows as motor on so it could be the board or stuck auger still.
 
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If the motor has been sitting for a while, as in not being run during the summer, it's possible that the armature is just "stuck". Sometimes when that happens, just turning the armature manually will get it running again. Maybe, just maybe, the oil in the bearings/bushings congealed, and breaking that bond will allow the motor to run. These motors have very little torque, so need to be very free to spin. If you have a meter, you could check whether voltage is getting to the motor.
 
The igniter does not get power in test, so it won't get warm. That is why you can use the test mode to run the exhaust while cleaning out the stove and blow the ash out the exhaust instead of having it settle in the room.

Did you reach clear back in the igniter area and make sure there is no ash piled up near the air intake? I've had that happen before in my P61a.

Is it possible that there is something in the auger that is keeping it from turning? I remember someone found a small toy in theirs once.
 
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If the motor has been sitting for a while, as in not being run during the summer, it's possible that the armature is just "stuck". Sometimes when that happens, just turning the armature manually will get it running again. Maybe, just maybe, the oil in the bearings/bushings congealed, and breaking that bond will allow the motor to run. These motors have very little torque, so need to be very free to spin. If you have a meter, you could check whether voltage is getting to the motor.
So the arm, with the wheel on it that turns the auger. That wasnt moving when i first opened it. so i turned it slowly for a quarter turn. tried it again, and it worked. So I shut it down and put a handful of pellets in see if they would go through. Next fire up it doesnt move. but by hand it still turns. I dont feel any grinding like a bad bearing and it feel smooth. it has resistance but it feels like what an electric motor would give.
 
The igniter does not get power in test, so it won't get warm. That is why you can use the test mode to run the exhaust while cleaning out the stove and blow the ash out the exhaust instead of having it settle in the room.

Did you reach clear back in the igniter area and make sure there is no ash piled up near the air intake? I've had that happen before in my P61a.

Is it possible that there is something in the auger that is keeping it from turning? I remember someone found a small toy in theirs once.
a small toy lol. no , no issues like that. by hand i can turn everything slowly.
 
Just curious but when was the last time you cleaned the drive motor or oiled the bearings? reason I ask is, shaded pole motors (which is what stove builders use), have very little torque output and dried out bearings can prevent them from rotating. That is why they drive through triple reduction gearboxes. The main reason why builders use them is they can have their rpm altered by increasing or decreasing the applied voltage and they are very inexpensive to produce.

Even an excessive buildup of dust and lint can stop them from rotating.

Most new drive motors utilize a ball bearing on the outboard side but on the drive side, the bearings are still oil impregnated bronze, which leads me to another point and that is, have you ever greased the reduction gearbox?

My stove (though not the same brand as yours), I have never replaced a drive motor or reduction gearbox. I clean and oil all my motors yearly (prior to spring shutdown) and I grease all my gearboxes as well. I've found (from taking them apart) that the builders of the gearboxes and motors use the minimal mount of lubricants. Keep in mind that no matter what brand of stove you have, neither the motors nor the gearboxes were made by the builder, they all buy them from second tier suppliers and incorporate them into their respective units. I've found taking them apart (not hard really) that most lack adequate internal lubrication and the atmosphere that they operate in causes that minimal amount of lubricant to get hardened and provide no lubrication what so ever, so the gear train is essentially running dry. That coupled with dry motor bearings or an excessive build up of dust and crud can adversely impact things like auger rotation of convection or draft fan speeds and dry bearings can and will contribute to distribution fan harmonics adversely. Nice thing about a shaded pole motor is, it can run with a totally locked rotor (armature) and it won't destroy it. The field laminations just get warm. That's it.

When I took apart my gearboxes and cleaned them of all the old, dried out grease and repacked them with high quality synthetic grease, I also drilled a and tapped a hole in each one to accept a grease fitting and every spring, they all get a couple pumps of grease until I see it coming out around the bronze bearing on the input side of the motor, like I said, over 20 years now and never replaced any drive components or a room air fan or a draft fan and our units runs 24/7 all winter except for cleaning.
 
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Just curious but when was the last time you cleaned the drive motor or oiled the bearings? reason I ask is, shaded pole motors (which is what stove builders use), have very little torque output and dried out bearings can prevent them from rotating. That is why they drive through triple reduction gearboxes. The main reason why builders use them is they can have their rpm altered by increasing or decreasing the applied voltage and they are very inexpensive to produce.

Even an excessive buildup of dust and lint can stop them from rotating.

Most new drive motors utilize a ball bearing on the outboard side but on the drive side, the bearings are still oil impregnated bronze, which leads me to another point and that is, have you ever greased the reduction gearbox?

My stove (though not the same brand as yours), I have never replaced a drive motor or reduction gearbox. I clean and oil all my motors yearly (prior to spring shutdown) and I grease all my gearboxes as well. I've found (from taking them apart) that the builders of the gearboxes and motors use the minimal mount of lubricants. Keep in mind that no matter what brand of stove you have, neither the motors nor the gearboxes were made by the builder, they all buy them from second tier suppliers and incorporate them into their respective units. I've found taking them apart (not hard really) that most lack adequate internal lubrication and the atmosphere that they operate in causes that minimal amount of lubricant to get hardened and provide no lubrication what so ever, so the gear train is essentially running dry. That coupled with dry motor bearings or an excessive build up of dust and crud can adversely impact things like auger rotation of convection or draft fan speeds and dry bearings can and will contribute to distribution fan harmonics adversely. Nice thing about a shaded pole motor is, it can run with a totally locked rotor (armature) and it won't destroy it. The field laminations just get warm. That's it.

When I took apart my gearboxes and cleaned them of all the old, dried out grease and repacked them with high quality synthetic grease, I also drilled a and tapped a hole in each one to accept a grease fitting and every spring, they all get a couple pumps of grease until I see it coming out around the bronze bearing on the input side of the motor, like I said, over 20 years now and never replaced any drive components or a room air fan or a draft fan and our units runs 24/7 all winter except for cleaning.
Never, it came with the house when we bought it 10 yrs ago. I feed it and clean it doing normal cleaning.
It has a fan on the post that spins when the motor spins. Seems to be part of the main post, where as the other post has gone through gearing. I flick the fan and it spins freely without any issue. also do not feel any resistance to it. fishing out a volt meter now to see if its the control panel not giving power.
 
Never, it came with the house when we bought it 10 yrs ago. I feed it and clean it doing normal cleaning.
It has a fan on the post that spins when the motor spins. Seems to be part of the main post, where as the other post has gone through gearing. I flick the fan and it spins freely without any issue. also do not feel any resistance to it. fishing out a volt meter now to see if its the control panel not giving power.
You mean on the outboard end of the armature. Some do, some don't. There to provide air flow over the laminations, not that they get hot anyway, just warm.
 
UPDATE: have the panels off and entire unit spun around disconnected from the pipe to work on it. I left it in the off position. cooking dinner and all the fans fired up for no reason. was not left in test, dead center off position. Should not have turned on.
 
Only getting 10-12 volts from the board to the motor so its looking like I need a new board unless someone has some reason why that would be?
Shows 8-10v just plugged in and 11-12v when running test with motor light on.

Oh also if anyone knows a cheap place for a board for a P68, which looks like they have gone to mass production and made one board for all of them using a dipswitch.
Prices range from $200+ as far as I can tell.
 
Are you measuring across the motor leads and not to ground?