Need Some Help. Neighbor (Environmental Atty) Filed Complaint

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Not knowing the difference between smoke and steam makes me wonder if your neighbor doesn’t have a legitimate complaint. Smoke is caused from something burning. Steam is water vapor that is boiling off. If you are getting steam your wood isn’t even remotely close to being properly seasoned and you should not be “burning” it.
This isn't accurate. Even dry wood contains around 20% moisture and the by products of complete combustion are CO2 and water.

On certain days steam from a good burn is visible but will dissipate quickly after leaving the stack (a few feet) but smoke can be seen until it's too dilute.

I can sometimes see water vapor coming from my oil burner. Just the chemistry of combustion.
 
My brothers gas furnace had steam coming out the other day on a cold, windless night, we all get steam.
 
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This isn't accurate. Even dry wood contains around 20% moisture and the by products of complete combustion are CO2 and water.

On certain days steam from a good burn is visible but will dissipate quickly after leaving the stack (a few feet) but smoke can be seen until it's too dilute.

I can sometimes see water vapor coming from my oil burner. Just the chemistry of combustion.
Well if you want to get really technical. True steam is actually invisible. It is only when it hits cool air that it condenses and we see the vapor cloud that is white. So in a well built fire you should not see any “steam” when you burn firewood. We will have to agree to disagree.
 
Yup.

Even oil or gas burners will produce vapour out the stack when it's cold enough out. No water in that fuel.
What you are seeing is the superheated exhaust coming out the stack make contact with the outside air which does contain water vapor. In this “contact zone” the water vapor in the air heats up and then very quickly condenses and cools right back down again as it travels out and up and becomes visible to us. If the exhaust source was from a steam generated power plant you can witness the exhaust steam. As it hits the air it cools and condenses and creates a big white cloud. Many people erroneously call this “smoke” including the media that presents this as a big smoking pollution factory but it’s only water vapor. If you witness this from a wood burning fire it tells you you have too much moisture in your fuel. Yes of course technically there is a little bit of steam emitted from burning wood, but if you can see it with the naked eye it’s a clue that your wood has too much moisture in it. There should not be so much steam or smoke that it makes a neighbor file a complaint. Yes, maybe he is an ash hole neighbor but if you are burning efficiently when the county shows up you should be able to point at your stack and say, “Smoke? What smoke? Do YOU see any smoke?” Case closed.
 
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So in a well built fire you should not see any “steam” when you burn firewood. We will have to agree to disagree.

There's water vapor in the gases from combusted materials. You can disagree all you want, just didn't want inaccurate comments so others aren't chasing their tails because they can sometimes see it.
 
There's water vapor in the gases from combusted materials. You can disagree all you want, just didn't want inaccurate comments so others aren't chasing their tails because they can sometimes see it.
Ok Mr. Literal. But not enough so that your neighbor files a complaint with the county health department. That is simply not good burning. Good burning methods do not result in this even with an ash hole neighbor.
 
Steam is water vapor that is boiling off. If you are getting steam your wood isn’t even remotely close to being properly seasoned and you should not be “burning” it.

Just responding to your inaccurate statement. And there's no need to take it personal.
 
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There's water vapor in the gases from combusted materials. You can disagree all you want, just didn't want inaccurate comments so others aren't chasing their tails because they can sometimes see it.
There are a lot of different variables in this discussion. Humidity of the outside air, moisture content of wood, temperature of fire and air, etc etc. Long and short: a well built fire complete with well seasoned firewood and burning methods should emit very little visible smoke, especially with a cat equipped stove. It should not give any credence to a complaint filed with the county if they come to see for themselves.
 
What you are seeing is the superheated exhaust coming out the stack make contact with the outside air which does contain water vapor. In this “contact zone” the water vapor in the air heats up and then very quickly condenses and cools right back down again as it travels out and up and becomes visible to us. If the exhaust source was from a steam generated power plant you can witness the exhaust steam. As it hits the air it cools and condenses and creates a big white cloud. Many people erroneously call this “smoke” including the media that presents this as a big smoking pollution factory but it’s only water vapor. If you witness this from a wood burning fire it tells you you have too much moisture in your fuel. Yes of course technically there is a little bit of steam emitted from burning wood, but if you can see it with the naked eye it’s a clue that your wood has too much moisture in it. There should not be so much steam or smoke that it makes a neighbor file a complaint. Yes, maybe he is an ash hole neighbor but if you are burning efficiently when the county shows up you should be able to point at your stack and say, “Smoke? What smoke? Do YOU see any smoke?” Case closed.

Right.

Which makes this:

If you are getting steam your wood isn’t even remotely close to being properly seasoned and you should not be “burning” it.

wrong.

Properly seasoned wood can show steam off the chimney.

Humidity in the combustion air also plays a part.


 
My
Right.

Which makes this:

If you are getting steam your wood isn’t even remotely close to being properly seasoned and you should not be “burning” it.

wrong.

Properly seasoned wood can show steam off the chimney.

Humidity in the combustion air also plays a part.
My gawd you people are strange. Burn away your steam producing firewood then. Enjoy the pissed off neighbors. I will burn my non-steam producing firewood. And we will all live happily ever after. This isn’t rocket science.
 
There are a lot of different variables in this discussion. Humidity of the outside air, moisture content of wood, temperature of fire and air, etc etc. Long and short: a well built fire complete with well seasoned firewood and burning methods should emit very little visible smoke, especially with a cat equipped stove. It should not give any credence to a complaint filed with the county if they come to see for themselves.
Well that may, or at least should be true. I think most folks here are priding themselves on their clean burning technique and by doing it right shouldn't have a problem. On the other hand, if you google wood burning and health there are some screwball anti-wood crusaders out there who would never be satisfied no matter how diligent are conscientious you were. Couple that with someone who doesn't know what they're looking at when looking at your stack and even the conscientious burner could have a problem.
 
My

My gawd you people are strange. Burn away your steam producing firewood then. Enjoy the pissed off neighbors. I will burn my non-steam producing firewood. And we will all live happily ever after. This isn’t rocket science.
Hmmm...I'd say you are the strange one here...because the rest of us get "steam" out the chimney for a while after a reload...and I'm burning 3-4 year CSS Ash, so it is anything but wet.
If you are not getting steam, maybe it has something to do with living in the driest state in the country...so maybe your results are different than the rest of us?!
 
Just responding to your inaccurate statement. And there's no need to take it personal.
It wasn’t “inaccurate”. It was accurate to the context.
 
My brothers gas furnace had steam coming out the other day on a cold, windless night, we all get steam.
But we are talking stoves and inserts not gas burners and furnaces.
 
But we are talking stoves and inserts not gas burners and furnaces.
Same deal though...combustion equals "steam" out the stack whenever the temp and humidity are right...
 
Just responding to your inaccurate statement. And there's no need to take it personal.
Ok, not taking it personal. But that doesn’t change a thing about what I am saying. But if you want to play the scientifically accurate statement game —we can do that. Actual steam is an invisible gas not visible to the naked eye. The white cloud you see is water vapor not steam. So if you want to be accurate about what you are seeing call it water vapor not steam. That is accurate. It is you making the inaccurate statement.
 
First, I don’t care. However, if we’re going to split hairs, all scientific-like, water vapor is not visible. Neither is steam which is hot vapor. In every day language, water condensing in air from water vapor is commonly referred to as steam as well. What we are talking about when we point to visible steam is an aerosol of water droplets that has condensed from vapor/steam. As “look, water aerosol” sounds absurd, “steam” has become analogous in everyday speech.

From there, dry wood typically contains ~15% +/- water by weight. A 25 pound load of wood will have roughly 1/2 gallon of water. When it burns, it will make water vapor that will condense from vapor to make ‘steam’ if atmospheric temperature/humidity allow. As the aerosol travels in the wind, it will evaporate/dissipate back to vapor. That’s science, yo!

I’m guessing what jeffm1 meant to say was that wood that is too wet will decrease a burn temperature causing a smoke issue, not a steam issue, as well as a neighbor issue.
 
Propane is C3H8. When burned C3H8+5O2 = 3CO2+4H2O. That's the science. You don't need any water in the fuel, the water is a product when burning carbon based fuels. That is the steam you can sometimes see well into a hot clean burn. Prob happen Monday with day time temps expected to be in the teens.

It would be nice to know if the OP was dealing with a nit-picker or is the neighbor had a legit complaint but seems less and less likely we will find out.
 
It would be nice to know if the OP was dealing with a nit-picker or is the neighbor had a legit complaint
If he/she is an environmental attorney, I dunno if nit picker is the description I'd use...just sayin...;) ::P
 
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No it's probably not the case. Who the member whose neighbor called the town because his neatly stacked fir wood offended them somehow so they claimed it was a fire hazard? Their wood framed house with the electricity running through the walls is more of a hazard but some of these types can't even stand the sight of wood. Kooks.
 
This thread is like discussions on a barbeque site I'm on. Aside from smoke when you add splits to the firebox, you should barely see any smoke, if any, from your smoker. I also reduce smoke when adding splits by pre-heating them on top of the firebox on my offset. :)

Remember the Neely's on The Food Network. He was barbequing something, opened it, and a ton of smoke poured out around him. He exclaimed, "that's what I'm looking for!" No. That is not what you are looking for. Twit.
 
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This thread is like discussions on a barbeque site I'm on. Aside from smoke when you add splits to the firebox, you should barely see any smoke, if any, from your smoker. I also reduce smoke when adding splits by pre-heating them on top of the firebox on my offset. :)

Remember the Neely's on The Food Network. He was barbequing something, opened it, and a ton of smoke poured out around him. He exclaimed, "that's what I'm looking for!" No. That is not what you are looking for. Twit.

Really?

I am only an infrequent inexperienced smoker, but it used to bug me about why I wasn't seeing very much smoke. Food always tasted great - but very little smoke from the smoker. (Usually using chunks).

You have given me some faith back. :)
 
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Oh, yes. No smoke, or just a little thin blue smoke. Lots of visible smoke will over-smoke food, especially if it is a meat with a long smoking time.

I'll look for a discussion.
 
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