'06 craftsman chainsaw - quit - low compression?

[hondochica]

Greetings

I have a '06 Craftsman chainsaw, 18"; 42cc. It barely has 10-15 hours on it (tops 20)! Have always drained it and ran dry after use before storage. Took it out this year. Had it tuned up for higher elevation. Ran ok - but often hard to start, seemed to flood easily. Ran it last week for about 1/2 hour (off/on) no problem. Took it out this week - very hard to start. Would not idle. After 5 or 6 cuts, could not restart. Took to a small engine shop, compression was at @98. The shop guy couldn't get it to start either; wouldn't even sputter or try to start. He says it's dead; compression is too low. now worth re-building.

Thoughts? Is there a small engine/chainsaw forum you might recommend (no offense intended, just looking for more input).

It's cold and I have a ton of wood to cut and can't afford a new saw right now!

thanks

Kelly

 

[Tar12]

I find it hard to believe the compression is only 98lb on a 20 hr saw...that is not adding up and would get a second opinion...

 

[hondochica]

Thanks Tar12 - I thought it odd. He basically argued (the shop guy) that the 'low quality' oil I was adding to the gas was like putting Wal-Mart engine oil in my Subaru. Got no one else to trust right now . . hence the post.

thanks for the input

 

[Tar12]

Thanks Tar12 - I thought it odd. He basically argued (the shop guy) that the 'low quality' oil I was adding to the gas was like putting Wal-Mart engine oil in my Subaru. Got no one else to trust right now . . hence the post.

thanks for the input

Even if it was bottom of the barrel oil mix I am calling BS on 98 lb on a 20 hr saw..if you were mixing it properly you should not have a problem.You could have lost a seal....did he pressure test the saw? If he didn't he should have.

 

[hondochica]

Hmmm he did a compression test. what's a 'pressure' test?

 

[Tar12]

A compression test checks the condition of the piston,rings and cylinder and their ability to compress air/fuel mixture...all internal

A Vac/PSI test checks the condition of the crank case (gaskets(s) and seals so no extra air can enter through a bad gasket or seal and change the air/fuel mixture.

 

[hondochica]

thanks for the clarification. looks like I should hold off on buying a new chainsaw this weekend til I make sure mine is truly dead. unfortunately the shop is not open tomorrow - would have to go to the 'big city'. was not my plan for tomorrow . . but . . .

have a good night - I'm gone

kelly

 

[Tar12]

I think thats a good call to get it checked out by someone who knows what they are doing...20 hours is just getting a saw broke in! If it is indeed dead what are you planning on replacing it with?

 

[salecker]

Take the muffler off the saw and look at the piston through the exhaust port.
That will give you a definite condition of the saws piston.If it is smooth then you will need to keep looking for a cause.If it is rough and scored,unless you can rebuild it yourself it is toast.
If you decide to rebuild it then you need to find out why it scored,or your saw will die again.

 

[dougand3]

+1 on pull muffler and look - suspect scoring will be there. And you pull can spark plug, move piston down and look at top of exhaust wall.
2006 model = probably a strato Poulan. Does the carb have 2 butterflies?
I have 5-6 boxes of strato Poulans with scored P&C. And price of a new topend makes it unreasonable to refurb.
As for tuning for higher elev...if you come back down, needs to be richened or may run lean.
98 PSI - if gauge is accurate = too low to run more than a weak sputter. Now, gotta be a good gauge. I have a $15 HF gauge that reads half of actual pressure. My $50 Actron gauge seems pretty accurate.

 

[hondochica]

Hmmmm . . Will try to take off the muffler and remove spark plug etc to check for scoring. the guy at the shop I took it to seemed to 'know what he was doing' . . he runs a small engine repair shop - been in business for 10+ years so he probably knows something. But that's not to say a second opinion and $20 wouldn't be worth it.

Not sure why there would be scoring after so few hours . . but then, I don't know small engines . . so . . .

If I need a replacement . . what do you all think of the new battery operated chainsaws? Have been reading a few reviews - some seem pretty good. my use: well - firewood for the next 15+ years. I am a 110 lb woman (on a good day) so I have to be careful about weight with the chainsaw. I can handle this craftsman 18" 42cc well - not to big or heavy, but probably at the top end of what I would/could handle without wrist/arm fatigue. Don't expect cutting anything greater than maybe 14-15". If not battery, then what brand for gas chainsaw? I really don't have the $$ right now, but don't want to waste $$ on a smaller saw only to have to replace it in a a year or two.

thoughts?

thanks - we'll get back to you after pulling the muffler

Kelly

 

[hondochica]

so - it looks like I need a special tool to get at/remove the muffler. So I'll have to take it to another shop.

I found another site with same 'chainsaw won't start' problem - same model; it said the min. compression must be at 100 psi; so as I'm slightly below that, what would cause compression failure? broken seals?

thanks

kelly

 

[dougand3]

IIRC, You remove the nuts for the muffler screen plate and then have 2 Torx-25 screws attaching muffler to cylinder. Maybe a neighbor has a T-25 screwdriver? You really need to look at piston and ring. Be better not to spend any more money if it's a lost cause.

Compression loss results from piston, ring and cylinder NOT making a tight, mostly impervious fit as piston moves up to compress air and fuel. Then spark comes and burns it quickly (like a little explosion) and slams piston downward. Scoring allows air/fuel to escape from chamber at spark plug along the tiny space between piston/ring and cylinder wall.

Crankcase seals don't affect compression directly. If they leak, they will cause scoring from lean condition.

Maybe the small engine shop has a saw to sell you? If you buy there - bet he/she would be quite attentive if a problem arises.

 

[Tar12]

You are going to receive many opinions as to what the best saw is but I will toss in my mine..my money is always on Stihl...I have never been let down with them..I have Stihls here with 100s of hours on them...one should last you a lifetime.

 

[hondochica]

Thanks Doug(and3) that helps alot. I have a couple neighbors that might have that screwdriver. Certainly worth saving the $20 and hour drive to the next shop. Though I can't say I'm terribly hopeful - from what I've read online and another shop I talked to - I bought a POS! I remember doing my homework before I bought this . . but . . I also remember not wanting to spend alot of $$ (didn't have money then either!)

get back to you if/when I find that screwdriver or the next shop

kelly

 

[Tar12]

Thanks Doug(and3) that helps alot. I have a couple neighbors that might have that screwdriver. Certainly worth saving the $20 and hour drive to the next shop. Though I can't say I'm terribly hopeful - from what I've read online and another shop I talked to - I bought a POS! I remember doing my homework before I bought this . . but . . I also remember not wanting to spend alot of $$ (didn't have money then either!)

get back to you if/when I find that screwdriver or the next shop

kelly

I use to throw money away trying to save a nickel...get you a good saw and be done with it.

 

[kevin j]

It’s quite possible 20 hrs on a consumer saw could be toast if it was set too lean, as most are from the factory. Right on the ragged edge thanks to the EPA. Lean = hot = mechnical damage, possible seizure and low compression.

The condition of the exhaust side of the piston will tell you if that is the cause. Unfortunately, regardless of cause, if it truly is 100 psi it is probabgly toast. Does it feel easier to pull over than you recall from the past?

 

[hondochica]

HI Kevin J - thanks for the comment. I have been reading about 'leanness' on out-of-the-box chainsaws. and there's no reason for me to think the shop that looked at it had a 'bad' compressor gauge. I'd had it to that shop a couple times in the past couple months so he was familiar with it. And yes, it was easier to pull - with not even the slightest indication that it might start. I've about settled into the fact that it's dead and have started researching a new chainsaw.

Hey Tar 12 - I missed your comment earlier - thanks for your input. Stihl is no doubt a good, reliable product. I'm seeing some great reviews of Echo as well. And I'm almost leaning toward a battery operated - I'm a staunch conservationist and buying 'clean' tools (no fuel, no exhaust, less noise) is part of my contribution. But . . they may be too new right now. Undecided.

thanks for your help

Kelly

 

[Tar12]

Echo from my limited experience with makes a good saw...I couldn't carry enough batteries for the amount of cutting that I do...

 

[kevin j]

Echo is good value for the money. I have a 17 year old Echo top handle that is bullet proof. Not super high performance, but rugged.

Some good battery saw threads on ArboristSite.com. Philbert has done some good comparisons. Technology has come a LONG way in the last two years. If you use it less than an hour at a time, and less than a few hours a year, I would consider battery. Not cheap though.

And, FWIW, there is energy use, and poluttion, just at the power station and toxic chemical plant for the batteries. Although the centralized power plants have emsisions controls that are not achievable at point of use applications.

 

[Jags]

Every electric saw (battery or plug in) that I have ever used has been painfully slow. I admit that I have only had 3 or 4 in my hands total but for a person looking to cut firewood for several years to come - well, my opinion is not favorable to the electrics. If you are on a ladder trimming a branch or three they work just fine. Cutting cordwood - ummmm...no.

For the more petite saw users, I would suggest staying around that 40cc range but in a good saw brand (echo, stihl, etc.) If you are not of the mechanical type I would also suggest finding a good (read: reputable) saw shop that you trust. Box store saws work but can be sketchy if any issues arise. A good saw shop will stick by your side. Just one dudes opinion.

 

[hondochica]

thanks for the all the guidance on a new saw. I've been at this much of the day and must move on. I'll investigate what, if anything can be done w/ my old saw, but I'm seriously leaning toward putting a new saw on hold for now. I'm hoping I can rent a saw for a day or two, or maybe borrow/rent one from a neighbor and do all my serious cutting for the rest of the winter. I just don't have $200 (ha ha) -$400 for a saw right now. Maybe I'll catch a good deal in spring or summer.

Appreciate all your help!
Kelly

 

[Tar12]

thanks for the all the guidance on a new saw. I've been at this much of the day and must move on. I'll investigate what, if anything can be done w/ my old saw, but I'm seriously leaning toward putting a new saw on hold for now. I'm hoping I can rent a saw for a day or two, or maybe borrow/rent one from a neighbor and do all my serious cutting for the rest of the winter. I just don't have $200 (ha ha) -$400 for a saw right now. Maybe I'll catch a good deal in spring or summer.

Appreciate all your help!
Kelly

There are always spring sales...

 

[kevin j]

I didn’t catch that you were cutting firewood. Electric would be out for that. I thought you were just trimming of the occasional storm branch or something. One quick option would be to rent a saw for the weekend at Home Depot. They used to rent only the 6400 which is fairly heavy for you, but my local store also rents the 500 series which is quite light. Unfortunately that rental is a third of the way towards buying a new small echo.
Maybe there’s somebody on this board close to you who could help for a day

 

[zrock]

Low quality oil or the wrong mix could definitely kill your saw in 15-20 hours.. I used to use the off the shelf oils at the local stores. Also tryed yo save a few $$ by buying equipment at the local stores. Well both my pollen chainsaw and my troy built backpack leaf blower packed it in within 2 years. No money saved their. Replaced both with stihl and couldn't be happier. Both have more power than what they replaced at the same c.c. Both much lighter and are workhorses. I now only use stihl oils and that gives me more warranty. The local loggers will agree that u get what u pay for in both oil and equipment.

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