10+ y/o EF3 won't stay lit - need some troubleshooting advice!

[jshilko]

I have an Envirofire EF3 at my house. I don't know its exact age, but I know its over 10 years old. It was running OK until last week when the dial-a-fire went. I replaced the dial-a-fire and the auger is functional again. The problem now, is that the fire won't stay lit. Sometimes, it will run for 4 or so hours. Other times it will sputter out after 40 minutes. The auger is running normally, but the feed is inconsistent. On its highest setting, it will feed a bunch of pellets every time the auger light turns on, but then it will go for as long as a minute without feeding any. The fire dies down during this time and then when pellets start dropping again, it buries the embers. Looking up the feed tube, the little turnstile seems to be moving normally. It will crush a pellet between itself and the wall of the tube every now and then, and this is when it doesn't drop pellets for a short time. I am going to take the auger motor out this afternoon, but I am wondering if there is anything else I should be looking for besides a jam.

I was reading one of HearthTools posts and I am wondering if I may be having problems with the seal as well. The damper slider doesn't seem to have any immediate effect on how the fire burns. What else should I check out while I have things apart? Thanks in advance.

 

[hearthtools]

I have an Envirofire EF3 at my house. I don't know its exact age, but I know its over 10 years old. It was running OK until last week when the dial-a-fire went. I replaced the dial-a-fire and the auger is functional again. The problem now, is that the fire won't stay lit. Sometimes, it will run for 4 or so hours. Other times it will sputter out after 40 minutes. The auger is running normally, but the feed is inconsistent. On its highest setting, it will feed a bunch of pellets every time the auger light turns on, but then it will go for as long as a minute without feeding any. The fire dies down during this time and then when pellets start dropping again, it buries the embers. Looking up the feed tube, the little turnstile seems to be moving normally. It will crush a pellet between itself and the wall of the tube every now and then, and this is when it doesn't drop pellets for a short time. I am going to take the auger motor out this afternoon, but I am wondering if there is anything else I should be looking for besides a jam.

I was reading one of HearthTools posts and I am wondering if I may be having problems with the seal as well. The damper slider doesn't seem to have any immediate effect on how the fire burns. What else should I check out while I have things apart? Thanks in advance.

there are two things that control the feed
the auger timer. (old one is 1 second) new is 3 seconds ON
the Dial O fire controls the deleay between feeds

So you need to time the time ON
and time the Time off.

Time on will always be same same no matter what heat setting

 

[jshilko]

Time on is 1 second, which means I have the older auger module, correct?

 

[hearthtools]

Time on is 1 second, which means I have the older auger module, correct?

the new timer and replacement is 3 seconds and makes the stove work much better on lower feeds.
there is a few threads hear on this issue

 

[hearthtools]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/44257/

 

[jshilko]

Yah, I did read that previously and I will most likely pick a new one up. My problem right now is that it wont stay lit for extended periods of time even at the highest feed rate. It's got me confused because it was working fine up until about a week ago.

 

[jshilko]

thanks for the link

 

[jshilko]

Ok, so I figured out that the auger is turning, but it is stopping at certain points for as long as a minute. It seems that there are 2 points in the revolution where it is getting stuck. The two points are directly across from one another (say 0 degrees and 180 degrees). The auger will get stuck at these two points for a while (meanwhile no pellets drop), after a while, the motor will work past this point and begin rotating again until it reaches the next point where it sticks. I am in the process of removing the motor now (currently waiting for some oil to penetrate the bolt that holds the feeder screw in the auger motor. Once i have it apart, I am gonna roll the screw to check if its bent. What other things should I look for? The bushing at the bottom of the auger allows the auger to move maybe 1/16", so it is minimal, but it does move a little. Any more help will be greatly appreciated!

PS. I decided to order the new times module regardless - its in the mail now

 

[imacman]

Bad spot (stripped) on a gear in the gearcase? Not likely, but possible. If your mechanical, open up the gearcase & look around.

 

[jshilko]

If I don't find anything with the feeder screw, I am gonna open it up (still waiting for the penetrating oil to do its thing), but I did notice that when it was stuck, I could not rotate the motor by hand either (as if a pellet had it jammed up)

 

[Mr Fixit]

On the left side of the EF3 there is a round disk, attached to the back wall on the inside of the stove. That is the vacuum switch. It has a small grey or orange rubber tube running from the bottom of it down to a nipple in the exhaust chamber. Disconnect the tube at that nipple and blow out the tube and clean out the nipple with a piece of wire or something similar. If you disconnect the tube at the pressure switch be sure to reconnect it back to the same nipple that you took it from.
The vacuum switch controls the auger motor by measuring the pressure created when the exhaust motor runs. It is common when this nipple is plugged with ash that the auger will work intermittantly (sp?) or not at all, espescially on the older Enviro's.
Also, clean out the exhaust chambers at the back of the firebox. They can be accessed from the front by removing the left and right panels (do not remove the center one, it has insulation behind it that is easily damaged). These panels can be identified by the round clean out port at the bottom of each panel. Once those 2 panels are removed, the exhaust channels are rectangular and easily identified. They are tricky to clean out, so be prepared to get dirty. Those 2 exhaust ports lead directly to the damper which can be freed up by removing the exhaust blower. Remove the exhaust blower by taking the 5 38 bolts off the outer shroud ( this removes the blower housing assembly instead of just the blower, which will give more room to work). Once the blower assembly is removed reach in about 8" and the damper is there. The damper slides along 2 channels, 1 on top and 1 on bottom. Clinker accumulates in the channels and that is what seizes the damper. Use a small screwdriver or similar to clear out the clinker. Do not force the damper rod, you will break it. it is only made from aluminum. You will probably also need to replace the exhaust housing gasket also, so be prepared with that beforehand.
Good luck.

 

[Mr Fixit]

OOps, I forgot to mention- poor quality pellets will aslo cause the problem you are describing esp on low fire. If the problem persists, try a good quality hardwood pellet. The Enviro's are very fussy about what they eat.

 

[jshilko]

I actually took EVERYTHING apart, except the motor last night to clean it out. The exhaust system is spotless, including the nipple at this point. I did not, however, attempt to bypass the vacuum switch. I kind of figured the auger wouldnt work at all if the vacuum switch was tripped. The fact that it failed at specific point in its revolution also made me think it was mechanical. When I put it back together I will try to bypass the vacuum switch. With that said, I have the motor apart now and Im going to post the pic, even if there is nothing wrong with it Im sure someone could use it for reference:

(broken image removed)

Grease is a little clumped up, but no stripped teeth. When I turn the smallest gear (the one with 6 teeth at left, the rest turn with it. The only thing I found that seemed a little off was that this smallest gear, which has a drive shaft from the electrical part of the engine does have some movement, maybe 1/8". See pics below.

Side view - To see the movement, focus on the gold bushing. This picture is when I do not press on the end of the shaft

(broken image removed)

And this picture is when I do press on it

(broken image removed)

Maybe someone can tell me if thats normal. It doesnt effect the movement of the other gears, but if something is not making contact on the electrical side of things, it would be an issue. If anyone spots anything else out of place, let me know! Thanks as always

 

[jshilko]

pellets are barefoot premium plus. They were working fine until my problems started a week or so ago

 

[imacman]

All of these electric motors have a little end play.....when you press up on the motor shaft like you did in pic #2, does the small 6 tooth gear on the shaft still stay engaged with the next gear?

 

[jshilko]

Yep, still engaged. I pulled each gear to check the bottom teeth as well. None stripped or missing.

 

[Mr Fixit]

lol wow you really do get down to it, don't you?
I would jump the pressure switch and run the stove, see what happens. Assuming you can get that auger motor back together, that is. lol.

 

[jshilko]

haha yah Ive been fussin with this for a while now, so ive read up on alot. Here is the latest:

Motor back together (and it still works Well, it works like it did before.

Hooked it up without the auger and ran it. It functioned the same way, spun good for a few lights, then it would stop for a few. the shaft on the 6 tooth gear would spin several rotations on some lights, and it would just kind bounce in place on others. This was with the vacuum switch still hooked up.

Next, I bypassed the vacuum switch. The motor did not act any differently. So does this just sound like a worn out motor?

 

[Mr Fixit]

yep.
test by connecting direct power to the motor. it is 110 v so just attach an old cord directly to the connectors on the motor and plug it in.

 

[jshilko]

The motor should run continuously in this configuration, correct? It is spinning for a few seconds then sputtering, so its basically the same behavior, but with constant power. So that should rule out anything else in the stove causing the motor to act up. Safe to say I should buy a new motor? Anyone have a preferred vender for me to pick the motor up from?

 

[rap69ri]

I've purchased motors from here in the past without any issues:

(broken link removed to http://www.cshincorporated.com/index.php/cPath/109_40)

 

[jshilko]

prices are nice there too. This link is the motor with the same model number (4515UI-063)

(broken link removed to http://www.cshincorporated.com/product_info.php/cPath/109_40/products_id/3953)

It says they are "**CURRENTLY OUT OF STOCK, PLEASE SEE HM-RGM451 or PV003****". does that mean that these other two motors will work as well? Here are the links to those two:

HM-RGM451 - (broken link removed to http://www.cshincorporated.com/product_info.php/cPath/109_40/products_id/3788)

PV003 - (broken link removed to http://www.cshincorporated.com/product_info.php/cPath/109_40/products_id/10184)

 

[rap69ri]

prices are nice there too. This link is the motor with the same model number (4515UI-063)

(broken link removed to http://www.cshincorporated.com/product_info.php/cPath/109_40/products_id/3953)

It says they are "**CURRENTLY OUT OF STOCK, PLEASE SEE HM-RGM451 or PV003****". does that mean that these other two motors will work as well? Here are the links to those two:

HM-RGM451 - (broken link removed to http://www.cshincorporated.com/product_info.php/cPath/109_40/products_id/3788)

PV003 - (broken link removed to http://www.cshincorporated.com/product_info.php/cPath/109_40/products_id/10184)

The PV-003 looks to have the same specs as the one out of stock, but the HM-RGM451 has a slightly longer shaft. I would say the PV-003 is a winner.

 

[imacman]

It says they are "**CURRENTLY OUT OF STOCK, PLEASE SEE HM-RGM451 or PV003****". does that mean that these other two motors will work as well?

Yes, they are the same but the motors are made by different companies (fasco, Rotom).

 

[imacman]

Also, just for your information, even though CSH has motors in stock and they have good prices, read through this thread about a forum member using a Gleason-Avery replacement auger motor. He has had good results and the motors seem beefier.

www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/34017/