1840 Farmhouse Reno

[HomeFireGirl]

Taking on a big challenge in 2019… renovating an abandoned 1840 stone, brick, and frame farmhouse. Gutted. It’s an absolute mess. Previously heated by oil burners, now disconnected. No furnace. Lime stone base surrounds 60% of the bottom floor. Lots of windows and no insulation anywhere. Brick exterior covered with asphalt shingles on upper floors, a whopping five bedrooms with full bath up there. Maybe 2,400 sf. Two viable wood chimneys, on each end of the 50 foot long home.

I’m considering using wood stoves for the primary heating source, located on the main floor. Looking at the largest Enerzone product. I have never used wood heat as a primary heat source before. Here in the Midwest, our winters are long with plenty it of deep-freeze temperatures. So my question is, what can I expect in terms of daily tending, heat efficiency, and comfort, especially in the upstairs rooms? Do I need two stoves?

Thanks for your suggestions...

 

[HomeinPA]

2 medium sized stoves at either end might work better. A single centrally located stove with a Class-A chimney up through the center of the house might actually do better but there are many factors that would go into figuring all that out. Primarily the floor plan. What was the original heating distribution system?. You also have to factor in how much wood you want to cut EVERY year. And stack, and split, and restack somewhere else and on and on..... If it had a hot air furnace you may be better off with a wood fired/oil combination furnace in the basement hooked to the ductwork and a smaller stove upstairs for atmosphere.

 

[MTY]

2400' on each floor or total? To be comfortable you will need windows, insulation, probably storm doors, and to seal the house. The chimneys are most likely not salvagable. The septic system is most likely not salvagable, and if you are able to use it, it will probably be constantly needing work. How is the water? Without a good source of water, you are wasting your time.

Do you know why it was abandoned?

I am half way through my second time doing something quite similar. 2500 total sf, about 10K in windows alone. It just depends on how talented and tough you are.

 

[kborndale]

If you plan to heat with wood the first thing you need to do is get a few cords of wood split and stacked. Do this before looking for stove. Most people getthe stove installed and then worry about the wood. Doing this will be very disappointing. The best stove in the world will not perform well without dry wood and you likelylcan not buy ready to burn wood.

 

[jetsam]

What stoves will work for you depends entirely on your remodel. Plan that out first.

Are you are going to bring the walls in? (This means putting studs over the stone, and new windows with either custom extension jambs or drywall returns.) Do that and insulate the entire thing, seal the cracks, good attic insulation, insulated siding, new windows... you could maybe get away with one big stove in the middle, or two medium stoves at the ends.

If you are not building out the original walls, I would say get 2 of the biggest stoves you can find and hope for the best. You may still need a supplement for colder weather if the goal is to keep the house above 60.

If you are keeping the current windows, you should forget the stoves and shop for a good tent to set up in your bedroom to keep the wind off at night...

@Ashful, mixed-construction 1840s house thread!

 

[Sawset]

Gutted?
How much renovation is going back in.

 

[armanidog]

Do you plan to live in it while renovating?
Stoves will be going on sale in another month or two.
You could use propane space heaters (no ventilation required) for this year and work on the stove in the fall. Maybe a mini split heat pump so you have AC during the summer.
Enjoy your new hobby. I'm renovating a 1906 farmhouse which came with two propane space heaters and a non-working through the wall AC.
So far I have a min split heat pump and a wood stove. Halfway insulated so far. I still use the space heaters on the cool mornings when it's too much trouble to start the stove.

 

[begreen]

That's a serious undertaking. Can you post a quick sketch of the floorplans and where you are thinking of placing the stove(s)? It looks like there are two chimneys, one on each end. Are they serviceable and in good locations?

The big Enerzone is a great stove. It's the same as the well liked Drolet HT2000 inside. As others have noted, modern stoves need fully seasoned wood to burn properly. It would be good to invest in about 3-4 cords of wood right now that is as dry as possible. If you can get some ash wood and stack it off the ground and top covered, it should be ready by next fall.

 

[HomeFireGirl]

2 medium sized stoves at either end might work better. A single centrally located stove with a Class-A chimney up through the center of the house might actually do better but there are many factors that would go into figuring all that out. Primarily the floor plan. What was the original heating distribution system?. You also have to factor in how much wood you want to cut EVERY year. And stack, and split, and restack somewhere else and on and on..... If it had a hot air furnace you may be better off with a wood fired/oil combination furnace in the basement hooked to the ductwork and a smaller stove upstairs for atmosphere.

Thanks for your response... there doesn't seem to be any prior heat distribution other than the oil burners, I counted four that have been disconnected. There is no ductwork, no basement. But there was a chimney centrally located in the home originally, I can see the round entry in the limestone wall but no chimney above roofline anymore. Great idea to check that out.

As for the wood... I have a feeling that this new chore will be a new way of life. Luckily, there are ample wood resources locally so sourcing fuel is no problem. House has a large covered front porch to keep wood dry. Axe n splitter ready to go, as is the fine company of Mr. J. Daniels once I realize what I have gotten myself into... love the upstairs smaller stove idea, hadn't thought of that...

 

[HomeFireGirl]

2400' on each floor or total? To be comfortable you will need windows, insulation, probably storm doors, and to seal the house. The chimneys are most likely not salvagable. The septic system is most likely not salvagable, and if you are able to use it, it will probably be constantly needing work. How is the water? Without a good source of water, you are wasting your time.

Do you know why it was abandoned?

I am half way through my second time doing something quite similar. 2500 total sf, about 10K in windows alone. It just depends on how talented and tough you are.

2400 total.

Ok, a little more background... this home was cared for by descendants of the original family up until 2014. With an estimated original build date of 1840, bones of the house indicate an original two room, two story miners cabin limestone/brick edifice. A second addition around 1860 ish brought the main house to four rooms. In the 1920s ish, for more upstairs rooms with master bath and downstairs kitchen was added on. Chimneys are concrete bricks so look like they were added to support oil burners, maybe in the 1940s. Water is on city lines, havent found a septic tank yet. Am pulling new 200 amp electric, putting in all new plumbing.

It was abandoned by young owners that may have been overwhelmed.

Agree on getting the house tight, this will be a five year plan... more persistence than talent lol... cool that you are working on one too.

 

[HomeFireGirl]

If you plan to heat with wood the first thing you need to do is get a few cords of wood split and stacked. Do this before looking for stove. Most people getthe stove installed and then worry about the wood. Doing this will be very disappointing. The best stove in the world will not perform well without dry wood and you likelylcan not buy ready to burn wood.

Great advice. Will order this week...

 

[HomeFireGirl]

That's a serious undertaking. Can you post a quick sketch of the floorplans and where you are thinking of placing the stove(s)? It looks like there are two chimneys, one on each end. Are they serviceable and in good locations?

The big Enerzone is a great stove. It's the same as the well liked Drolet HT2000 inside. As others have noted, modern stoves need fully seasoned wood to burn properly. It would be good to invest in about 3-4 cords of wood right now that is as dry as possible. If you can get some ash wood and stack it off the ground and top covered, it should be ready by next fall.

Aye. Here’s the sketch of the ground floor, my work in progress vision. Stoves are located where the chimneys are.

Chimneys look good, cinder block, one noticeable crack on one but it isn’t large. Just had them sweeped, no concerns noted. I think the tech said it was a 6 3/4 inch flue size.

Glad to hear you like the Enerzone. And I’ll get that wood ordered and stacked under cover this and as this deep-freeze breaks.

 

[HomeFireGirl]

Do you plan to live in it while renovating?
Stoves will be going on sale in another month or two.
You could use propane space heaters (no ventilation required) for this year and work on the stove in the fall. Maybe a mini split heat pump so you have AC during the summer.
Enjoy your new hobby. I'm renovating a 1906 farmhouse which came with two propane space heaters and a non-working through the wall AC.
So far I have a min split heat pump and a wood stove. Halfway insulated so far. I still use the space heaters on the cool mornings when it's too much trouble to start the stove.

The plan is... yes I’ll be living there during renovations. No doubt this will be a rough experience, take a look at the picture of the kitchen as it is right now… I have my primary home for sale right now and as soon as that sells and closes, I’ll make that jump. I do own a vacation rental property that I can stay in if electric and plumbing aren’t done at that time.

The plan is to install electric baseboard heat upstairs as a back up heating source. I’ll install solar next year. But downstairs a propane heater would work great.

1906! How cool is that??

 

[HomeFireGirl]

What stoves will work for you depends entirely on your remodel. Plan that out first.

Are you are going to bring the walls in? (This means putting studs over the stone, and new windows with either custom extension jambs or drywall returns.) Do that and insulate the entire thing, seal the cracks, good attic insulation, insulated siding, new windows... you could maybe get away with one big stove in the middle, or two medium stoves at the ends.

If you are not building out the original walls, I would say get 2 of the biggest stoves you can find and hope for the best. You may still need a supplement for colder weather if the goal is to keep the house above 60.

If you are keeping the current windows, you should forget the stoves and shop for a good tent to set up in your bedroom to keep the wind off at night...

@Ashful, mixed-construction 1840s house thread!

In 2014, I think the previous owners took down a bunch of interior walls exposing lime stone foundation and brick walls. Only two limestone walls been framed up, but has not been dry walled yet - and one of those hosts a chimney. See pic. So getting the right chimney in place before work continues is key. Upstairs, it’s a mixture of plaster and lathe as well as drywall on the new were 1920 addition. Upstairs is in relatively good condition. But I am not sure if there is any insulation between drywall and brick exterior. Am wiring in electrical baseboard heat upstairs as a secondary heat source, and plan to install solar panels next fall. The windows in the front of the house are original, and since I live in a national historic district, the city has all sorts of regulations on what I can and cannot do. But they seem intact, likely not efficient at all, so that will be part of the plan to address.

Not only do I have a tent, but plenty of blankets and socks... lol thank you for your suggestions!

 

[HomeFireGirl]

Gutted?
How much renovation is going back in.

Pretty much. The full downstairs needs everything from finished floor, finished walls, electrical and trim, kitchen cabinets, and of course the wood stoves. It’s a little rough. I’ll keep the exposed beams on the ceiling as they are. But it’s going to be very cool once done…

 

[SpaceBus]

Get a wood cook stove for the kitchen and you can have free domestic hot water in the winter. @coaly uses his Kitchen Queen all year in an old house. An additional medium size heat stove in the living area would keep the house very warm if you modernize it.

 

[SpaceBus]

In 2014, I think the previous owners took down a bunch of interior walls exposing lime stone foundation and brick walls. Only two limestone walls been framed up, but has not been dry walled yet - and one of those hosts a chimney. See pic. So getting the right chimney in place before work continues is key. Upstairs, it’s a mixture of plaster and lathe as well as drywall on the new were 1920 addition. Upstairs is in relatively good condition. But I am not sure if there is any insulation between drywall and brick exterior. Am wiring in electrical baseboard heat upstairs as a secondary heat source, and plan to install solar panels next fall. The windows in the front of the house are original, and since I live in a national historic district, the city has all sorts of regulations on what I can and cannot do. But they seem intact, likely not efficient at all, so that will be part of the plan to address.

Not only do I have a tent, but plenty of blankets and socks... lol thank you for your suggestions!

Electric baseboard heaters are expensive. Have you considered ductless mini heat pumps? They cost almost nothing to run.

 

[armanidog]

1906! How cool is that??

Pretty cool in the winter.

Sounds like you have a plan. It will be so pretty out there in the spring.
I took a road trip up and down the Mississippi about 7 years ago. Stopped in Galena and ate lunch. Nice little town. Lot of corn fields in that area.
I loved driving on those old roads running along the river and camping. A couple of really small towns along the river reminded me of Steven King novels.

 

[moresnow]

Great area to live in! I live a couple hours west of there. I used to work full time just across the river in Bellevue. Plenty of great firewood in the vicinity.
One thing that needs to be considered when looking at stoves is if you will be leaving them un attended for work etc ? How long each day do you plan to be away?
You definitely want to be able to burn through the night as well without having to wake up and reload the stove/stoves! Take your time on stove selection. Ask plenty of questions and put in plenty of research time.
Neat old place you have there. Your area has more stone based construction than I have seen anywhere else. I spent a couple years remodeling/rebuilding a stone house in Guttenberg. Prepare to grit your teeth on occasion If things get to overwhelming drive over to St. Donatus for a excellent meal at the Kalmes restaurant!

 

[PaulOinMA]

Thanks for posting pictures. Looking forward to updates on progress.

 

[begreen]

Galena is where U.S.Grant had his home. There was a wood stove in every bedroom then. Many of them were barrel stove design.

It's a pretty area with lots of history. The 1840's were the heyday of Galena. It was much more important than Chicago at the time.

 

[SpaceBus]

Galena is where U.S.Grant had his home. There was a wood stove in every bedroom then. Many of them were barrel stove design.

It's a pretty area with lots of history.

I can't imagine how much firewood that took to feed so many huge stoves. At least in old European houses they have a bunch of small stoves, so it's a little more manageable.

 

[begreen]

You should visit the Habsburg palaces in Vienna. They used a forest worth of wood to heat them. The stoves there are like 12 ft tall.

 

[armanidog]

You should visit the Habsburg palaces in Vienna. They used a forest worth of wood to heat them. The stoves there are like 12 ft tall.

At the Biltmore mansion in Asheville, NC, the banquet hall fireplace:



What size chimney brush do you reckon they used?

 

[Sawset]

Aye. Here’s the sketch of the ground floor, my work in progress vision. Stoves are located where the chimneys are.

Chimneys look good, cinder block, one noticeable crack on one but it isn’t large. Just had them sweeped, no concerns noted. I think the tech said it was a 6 3/4 inch flue size.

Glad to hear you like the Enerzone. And I’ll get that wood ordered and stacked under cover this and as this deep-freeze breaks.

Which software are you using. A 3d reperesentation is such a useful tool.