1978 heatilator and what to do

[salbwil3]

Hello,
I'm new to the forum and joined to get much needed advice. My home was built in '78 and has a regular masonry brick faced metal fireplace; I believe it's a heatilator brand. It is built in by a mason and is connected to a clay flue going up a brick chimney to and beyond the roof. ....trying to be clear, here. It has never worked well ( maybe mason' s work) and we'd like a good wood burning fireplace here...don't care whether insert or building new, but want to heat the house if need be . Also, like a traditional look. Can anyone help?
Many thanks ,
salbwil3

 

[Harley]

Hi, salb:
welcome to the forum.

Pictures and or dimensions of your current setup would help greatly, as well as desciption and layout of the house, including sf. A wealth of information here. Just need a little more details as to what your requirements are. Oh, and location would help a great deal too.

 

[salbwil3]

Hi Harley, Thought I had replied, but guess it didn't go through. Thanks for answering. The fireplace is: 48" wide by 32 1/2 " high by 20" deep. These are opening measurements. The house is two stories, cottage type , with ceilings 8 1/2 feet on first floor and just over that on second. Fireplace is in living room, first floor, outside wall. We live in Ma., across from ocean.We have a new Munchkin gas furnace with a separate through foundation flue. We love a fireplace and hate that we can't use this one.......appreciate your help.
salbwil3

 

[salbwil3]

I have pictures, but am ignorant on how to post them.
salbwil3

 

[Corie]

You could go with an insert in the existing unit, since any of the ZC fireplace systems can't connect up to a pre-existing masonary chimney from what the manuals say.


As far as inserts go, the sky is the limit.

From the dimensions of that firebox, it sounds like a Pacific Energy Summit Insert will fit. It requires the following dimensions for the fireplace:

WIDTH (at front) 34-1/2" (876 mm)
WIDTH (at rear) 26-1/2" (673 mm)
HEIGHT 23-1/8" (587 mm)
DEPTH 18" (778 mm)

Couple that with a nice reline job and you'll have a very serious heat source on your hands that should keep up with any weather conditions.

Presumably you could also go with the next smallest insert, since we don't know the square footage of your house.

Here is a link to the PE insert page:

(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/woodInserts.html#The%20Summit%20Insert)

 

[Harley]

Do you know what the flue size is, and what condition its in? My guess is you best bet will be an insert, and you won't lose the "look and feel" of a fireplace with one, and will certainly gain a lot more usable heat than the fireplace. Here's one of the older threads of some of the members' pictures, some of which are inserts, in case you hadn't seen it

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2940/

Some of the others who are more familiar with inserts will jump in shortly as far as specific brand recomendations, etc. You are most likely going to need a liner for the flue as well.

 

[Harley]

I have pictures, but am ignorant on how to post them.
salbwil3

at the bottom of the post box... you will see the "attachments" and "browse" button... just click the browse button, and select your pictures to attach

 

[DriftWood]

This is what I did with my old fire place.

HearthStone Heritage break in fire!!
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/3106/

 

[jtp10181]

I was just going to suggest that.... besides an insert you can also put a wood stove inside or in front of the existing fireplace.

 

[begreen]

Hi salbwil3. Did you say outside wall? Is this an exterior chimney? That is likely more the issue, than the 1978 Heatilator. What is the flue's interior size. Sounds like you may need an insulated liner to make this chimney behave better, regardless of what you connect to it.

 

[salbwil3]

Yes, I believe that is but one issue.....also may need to be higher, but main issue is the unit itself, the metal unit is not installed correctly ( we think). It hasn't ever, as I've said, worked right.
salbwil3

 

[begreen]

Can you describe how it misbehaves?

 

[salbwil3]

Hi,
The unit, from the beginning has smoked into the room; draft has been poor. Now, there seem to be loose bricks between the metal unit and the brick facing . There is a mighty draft coming into the room when it's cold outside. This is, of course, when the flue is closed , as well as open. We have long ago given up on fires.......sad.
salbwil3

 

[salbwil3]

If we install an insert, can we cover the brick front of the fireplace as well as the poorly functioning open soldier course of bricks that are supposedly there to let warm air into the room? The brick work is ugly ( I really dislike that mason....harboring a thirty year grudge), and ,as I said, that blower never seemed to work.
salbwil3

 

[bodeen]

I too covered an old heatilator system with a jotul kennebec. However my heatilator had a very good draft up the chimney and no drafts when the damper was closed until it rusted out. It worked as good as a fireplace does for many years. Mine rusted out at the smoke shelf just beyond the damper and started causing smoking problems etc. Does your heatilator have two vents on the front of the fireplace at above and to the sides of the opening and two vents down next to the floor on the side of the chimney/hearth? If so, check the smoke shelf just beyond the damper. Its a flat spot before it goes up toward the chimney. If its rusted out or has holes in it then that is your problem. If your draft is poor now or if you have a bad installation then installing a stove of any kind wont solve it. You kinda have to get to the bottom of the current problem before proceeding. Lots of great info, expertise, and help on this site.


bodeen

 

[salbwil3]

Hi,
I keep trying to resize my photo to include it, but don't seem to be having any luck. There are two grates, one on each lower side of the brick front of the fireplace, with a verticle soldier course of bricks at the top of the fireplace that is supposed ( I think) to be the outflow of air. The way you describe the problem with the rust out seems like what I have also. Where do I go from here?
salbwil3

 

[berlin]

what you describe has nothing to do with the heatilator itself, or the way it's connected to the chimney. the problems you describe are quite common with chimneys built on the exterior of homes, exterior masonry chimneys are always a bad idea. years ago my parents had a home w/ a heatilator, it worked very well, and would heat the whole house easily, of course it burned much more wood than an airtight insert or stove, but while doing so it did something most open fireplaces can't do, it put out very large amounts of heat.

 

[begreen]

Yes, that's why I started down this line of query. You'll need an insulated liner for certain with the new stove. I suspect you'll also find a fair amount of corrosion in the unit from condensation. Exterior wall chimneys are often very poorly behaved.

Do you know what the inside dimension is for the flue? Is it 8" x 8"?

 

[bcnu]

You'll probably want to go with a good insert. I also have a heatilator unit and decided to go with a free standing wood stove. I removed the raised hearth and have a new, floor level, hearth pad almost ready. As for covering the row of vent bricks(haven't heard the term soldier before), that was covered by someone in a long ago post I read - and they said no problem, so we're covering it with part of a wooden fireplace surround and mantel. I also have to cut out the middle vent tube in order to do a chimney reline. Good luck and post more pics when you get it finished.

 

[salbwil3]

Hi,
This forum is wonderful........husband is most impressed with my info.
I believe the clay flue is whatever was standard in 1978 .The chimney has three separate flues...one is now not being used ( actually 2 aren't) as we have a new direct vent furnace. Ideally, I'd like to put something in that looks like a fireplace, but heats like a stove ....natch !
Appreciate the help.
salbwil3

 

[begreen]

Can you folks get a measurement of the flue pipe interior dimensions? This is a big chimney with a lot of mass. What has been happening up to now is that it takes a lot to heat up that mass. Until it is warm, the smoke wants to descend rather than go up. Even with an eventual roaring blaze, the majority of the heat produced has been warming outdoors due to radiation of the chimney heat to outside. Because this mass of brick is too cool for the smoke it condenses on the interior of the chimney. To slowdown this process an insulated metal liner needs to be inserted in the existing flue pipe. However, without knowing the interior dimension of the flue, we are only guessing that the new liner can be insulated. If the cold chimney issue isn't addressed, even the best inserts we can recommend may perform poorly.

That said I would look at the Jotul C450 Kennebec and Hampton 300i if you like the cast iron look. And look at the Quadrafire 5100i or Pacific Energy Summit inserts. Most importantly chose a dealer in your area that has a strong reputation for quality installs and one that understands the issues we've been discussing. Here is a guideline for the kind of inspection that should be done before installation begins:

Suggested reading:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Inspect_your_chimney_before_installing_insert/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Wood_Stove_buying_Primer/

Suggested stoves to start with:
(broken link removed to http://www.jotul.us/content/products/ProductType____3098.aspx)
http://www.hampton-fire.com/Wood/Inserts/index.php
(broken link removed to http://www.quadrafire.com/products/inserts/woodInserts.asp)
(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/woodInserts.html#The%20Pacific%20Insert)

 

[bodeen]

The outside chimney is a different animal to be sure but she has stated that she gets cold draft in the house even when the damper is closed. Tells me that the cold air from the flue is getting behind the steel insert and coming out the intakes and outlet. I had similar symptoms from a heatilator fireplace that worked great for years on an outside chimney setup. Does the heatilator have the pipes coming off of it at the top of it?

Sounds like you really want a fireplace. I dont think you'll find a fireplace that will heat like a stove. A stove is going to be your best bet for heat. Lots of great inserts available with a fire view. Use the search function on this site to do research on different inserts. If you go with an insert you will probably need to at least have the chimney relined with an insulated liner with block off plates. Chimney height is a very important consideration as well. No matter what you do you should follow local codes and hire a reputable installer.

Just curious as to where the draft comes in from with damper closed? If you take a piece of toilet paper about 2' long and hold it from the top near the outlet at the top of the opening does the toilet paper blow out toward the room or suck in to the opening? How about at the side vents? Then try the same thing with a door or window open.

bodeen

 

[salbwil3]

Hi,
Just did the toilet paper thing. Wind ( snowstorm outside) blew paper when it was placed in front of both the soldier course of openwork bricks at top of fireplace and in front of the vents on each side at bottom of fireplace. There is a big draft today !
salbwil3

 

[Hogwildz]

Hi,
Just did the toilet paper thing. Wind ( snowstorm outside) blew paper when it was placed in front of both the soldier course of openwork bricks at top of fireplace and in front of the vents on each side at bottom of fireplace. There is a big draft today !
salbwil3

You can close them up, they as you see are only letting cold air draft into the room at this point I would put some kawool in the holes and between the soldier course bricks. then as suggested Put a nice mantle over top of the soldier course, and put some nice looking covers over the 2 lower cold air inlets. My heatilator has 4 vents two lower, two upper. They were blocked off when I bought the house, still are, and a PE Summit insert sits in the fireplace now.