2019 Progress Hybrid Puff Back

[bholler]

Cost. I can get rigid at about half the cost of flex from the Mennonites and this is even with my whole sale accounts. I have always heard them referred too as smoke shelves but they could be called something else. Approximately three feet above where it looks (using the fiber cam) like each crock was installed they have brick coming out into the flue of the chimney so that you only have around 4" between the opposite wall of the flue and the brick shelf. Then above the shelf it goes back to the regular flue and then above the upstairs crocks you have the same thing again.

What alloy of stainless are they using. What type of joint does their pipe have? Just because something is cheap doesn't mean it is the right thing to use. I have seen allot of Amish or Mennonite pipe used some of it is good. Just be sure you know what you are getting. Others is utter junk. You will also have to get insulation for it.

 

[grobinson2]

What alloy of stainless are they using. What type of joint does their pipe have? Just because something is cheap doesn't mean it is the right thing to use. I have seen allot of Amish or Mennonite pipe used some of it is good. Just be sure you know what you are getting. Others is utter junk. You will also have to get insulation for it.

Its all good. Your good, I'm good, and my liner is good. 22 gauge, 316 SS crimp lock and then I use three SS screws. Its good stuff. Have used it for years. Most of my customers are Amish and to say they use and abuse what I install is an understatement. Yes, I will be using ever guard poor in insulation mix. I am going to install a bypass so that I can use a baro damper on the chimney its self with a cold air intake so its not pulling from the house for makeup air.

Thanks again,
Glenn

 

[bholler]

Its all good. Your good, I'm good, and my liner is good. 22 gauge, 316 SS crimp lock and then I use three SS screws. Its good stuff. Have used it for years. Most of my customers are Amish and to say they use and abuse what I install is an understatement. Yes, I will be using ever guard poor in insulation mix. I am going to install a bypass so that I can use a baro damper on the chimney its self with a cold air intake so its not pulling from the house for makeup air.

Thanks again,
Glenn

Are you a sweep?

 

[grobinson2]

Are you a sweep?

Biomass boiler tech/installer.

 

[bholler]

Biomass boiler tech/installer.

And you professionally install unlisted liners for customers?

 

[grobinson2]

And you professionally install unlisted liners for customers?

I sure do if they are enrolled in Amish Care Insurance.

 

[bholler]

I sure do if they are enrolled in Amish Care Insurance.

Ok good luck to you.

 

[grobinson2]

Ok good luck to you.

Thank you. You as well Sir.

 

[bholler]

Its all good. Your good, I'm good, and my liner is good. 22 gauge, 316 SS crimp lock and then I use three SS screws. Its good stuff. Have used it for years. Most of my customers are Amish and to say they use and abuse what I install is an understatement. Yes, I will be using ever guard poor in insulation mix. I am going to install a bypass so that I can use a baro damper on the chimney its self with a cold air intake so its not pulling from the house for makeup air.

Thanks again,
Glenn

A barometric damper should never be used with a wood stove. It will lead to excessive creosote buildup. And then feed the resulting chimney fire with massive amounts of air.

 

[grobinson2]

Well I had posted a response last night from my phone but for some reason I do not see it here. bholler, in the future please skip over my posts. Your condescending comments and failure to even take the time to read my posts speaks volumes. You know me and my business about as well as I know you and your business. The difference is that I chose not to slander you and your business with insinuations. Also for the record there are quite a few high efficiency wood stove and boiler manufactures that require the use of a baro in the owners manual not to mention as part of their tech training. I do hope that today is a better day for you Sir.


Thanks again,
Glenn

 

[bholler]

Well I had posted a response last night from my phone but for some reason I do not see it here. bholler, in the future please skip over my posts. Your condescending comments and failure to even take the time to read my posts speaks volumes. You know me and my business about as well as I know you and your business. The difference is that I chose not to slander you and your business with insinuations. Also for the record there are quite a few high efficiency wood stove and boiler manufactures that require the use of a baro in the owners manual not to mention as part of their tech training. I do hope that today is a better day for you Sir.


Thanks again,
Glenn

Boilers yes wood stoves no there are no listed wood stoves on the market in the US that allow a barometric damper. And thank I am having a fine day as I did yesterday.

 

[grobinson2]

Boilers yes wood stoves no there are no listed wood stoves on the market in the US that allow a barometric damper. And thank I am having a fine day as I did yesterday.

Oh I am sorry I was not aware that this websites "customers" were only from the USA. According to hearth.com FAQ/User Agreement viewership is from all over the world. Glad to hear yesterday was not just an "off" day for you and that your posts from yesterday represent your "usual" demeanor.

Regards,
Glenn

 

[grobinson2]

Creaky old farm house? I'd square away the PH on a 6" insulated liner, then look into installing a 2nd stove on its own class A chimney else where at a different time once you figure out your thermal loops in the house, Once the liner is installed I'd run a few fires on cheap black pipe and drill a hole into it to see what kind of draft your dealing with, I would suspect that it would be a strong draft, so you may need a damper.
Insulated liner just for the safety of the house, not because the chimney would be cold, you never know if theres a cracker mortar joint in the chimney, (I also think it needs to have a clay liner at a minimum if no steel liner is in place, can only imagine the creosote build up over time) So if you have a fire the heat wont penetrate the cracks or create any new cracks and keep the fire contained so it doesn't burn down the homestead.
The PH's are beautiful stoves, I've heard they can blast some heat out to and sometimes people return them because there to powerful.
Any plans with air sealing? Is the stove set in more of an open floor plan? whats the ceiling height? just being nosey because I want to hear about the performance of the PH.
Edit: Lets talk about the wood, I think the pine might be burning through fast and by the time the oak is ready to lite off since its wet the majority of the pine btu's are long gone, the cat is still hot enough so the oak smokes creating a fuel rich environment, the smoke then hits its flash point and lights off causing the puffing, the only real fix here would be to stop burning the oak and find something drier.

Just an update: I loaded the stove this morning (0800 EST) with 100% southern yellow pine cut offs that averaged 12% moisture. Allowed for thermocouple to come up to 800 F and closed off the air. Stove has worked like a champ all day. No puff-backs (wife is home) and secondary flames came in to effect around three hours after stove was loaded. Cat temp as of now (1450 EST) is still at 790F. Stove was filled 3/4 full at time of loading. Looks like you were correct about the moisture screwing with things.

Thanks again,
Glenn

 

[kennyp2339]

Just an update: I loaded the stove this morning (0800 EST) with 100% southern yellow pine cut offs that averaged 12% moisture. Allowed for thermocouple to come up to 800 F and closed off the air. Stove has worked like a champ all day. No puff-backs (wife is home) and secondary flames came in to effect around three hours after stove was loaded. Cat temp as of now (1450 EST) is still at 790F. Stove was filled 3/4 full at time of loading. Looks like you were correct about the moisture screwing with things.

Thanks again,
Glenn

Nice!! now lets get talking about the use of a baro damper on a wood stove, I have an amateur background in mechanical heating / cooling. I def understand the fundamentals behind using a baro damper with gas, oil, and coal fired stoves.
My idiot proof rational behind all of this is that those fuel sources have a fairly constant btu output, when its running, its running to spec being aided by some type of induced blower intake to get a specific air to fuel ratio, with x amount of btu's being burned for that fuel source, so its easier to dial in draft specs to the local environment such as chimney height, chimney size, whether the unit has source side air intake, or a dedicated intake ect..
Burning a wood stove is a little bit of a wild card, there are many variables to this which is unique in that day of age in the tech world, we honestly need to take a step back and understand the simplicity of it all.
Woods stoves run on a platform of using older world, time proven tech with the modern squeeze as much out of it for efficiency and environmental cleanliness, all with the best variables of different drafts, different chimney's, different types of wood and moisture content.
I don't have the same burn everyday, I have near same burns, but theres always something slightly different, to close to tell with my naked eye, but my draft is always different since high and low pressure, winds are always changing, maybe one load of wood is slightly higher in moisture, or maybe I'm burning hotter because I need more heat or lower because its warmer outside. Stove companies have had to test there units under a simple, worst case scenario, but cover a wide umbrella of different conditions, different applications.
Where does the baro damper come in? Its comes in with the fact the stoves simply are not tested with it, the reasoning is that the stove companies need to take a simple static self contained unit, make it burn hot enough to pass environmental rules under a specific draft and air intake, your always going to have a certain amount of unburnt particulates and the idea is to keep the chimney hot enough so the flue gasses don't condense and form creosote at high burn and low burn. A baro damper adds more air into the exit system, will it slow draft down? yes, but it will cool off those flue gases and create a bigger issue especially if your burning at a lower rate, its counter intuitive to develop a stove then let joe q public burn it and burn his house down because of a chimney fire, its best to have a hot flue to avoid all of this while keeping it simple enough for anyone to operate it.
@bholler naturally understands most of this, the man is in tune, and very passionate when it comes to wood burning, he will call an ace a ace, spade a spade and is rather point blank, especially when it involves safety issues, or installing, operating (and in many of my cases) giving improper information. Specs are specs, codes are codes and there is almost little if any type of discretion given when it comes to safety when talking with him, he's one of the few that really cares and has knowledge / experience when it comes to this type of stuff. Yes sometimes he comes off a little rough (I didn't like him when he first started posting here), his posts can rattle a few nerves and but he is pretty true to his word and def has core values that he sticks by and is an asset to this website and community as a whole.

 

[bholler]

Nice!! now lets get talking about the use of a baro damper on a wood stove, I have an amateur background in mechanical heating / cooling. I def understand the fundamentals behind using a baro damper with gas, oil, and coal fired stoves.
My idiot proof rational behind all of this is that those fuel sources have a fairly constant btu output, when its running, its running to spec being aided by some type of induced blower intake to get a specific air to fuel ratio, with x amount of btu's being burned for that fuel source, so its easier to dial in draft specs to the local environment such as chimney height, chimney size, whether the unit has source side air intake, or a dedicated intake ect..
Burning a wood stove is a little bit of a wild card, there are many variables to this which is unique in that day of age in the tech world, we honestly need to take a step back and understand the simplicity of it all.
Woods stoves run on a platform of using older world, time proven tech with the modern squeeze as much out of it for efficiency and environmental cleanliness, all with the best variables of different drafts, different chimney's, different types of wood and moisture content.
I don't have the same burn everyday, I have near same burns, but theres always something slightly different, to close to tell with my naked eye, but my draft is always different since high and low pressure, winds are always changing, maybe one load of wood is slightly higher in moisture, or maybe I'm burning hotter because I need more heat or lower because its warmer outside. Stove companies have had to test there units under a simple, worst case scenario, but cover a wide umbrella of different conditions, different applications.
Where does the baro damper come in? Its comes in with the fact the stoves simply are not tested with it, the reasoning is that the stove companies need to take a simple static self contained unit, make it burn hot enough to pass environmental rules under a specific draft and air intake, your always going to have a certain amount of unburnt particulates and the idea is to keep the chimney hot enough so the flue gasses don't condense and form creosote at high burn and low burn. A baro damper adds more air into the exit system, will it slow draft down? yes, but it will cool off those flue gases and create a bigger issue especially if your burning at a lower rate, its counter intuitive to develop a stove then let joe q public burn it and burn his house down because of a chimney fire, its best to have a hot flue to avoid all of this while keeping it simple enough for anyone to operate it.
@bholler naturally understands most of this, the man is in tune, and very passionate when it comes to wood burning, he will call an ace a ace, spade a spade and is rather point blank, especially when it involves safety issues, or installing, operating (and in many of my cases) giving improper information. Specs are specs, codes are codes and there is almost little if any type of discretion given when it comes to safety when talking with him, he's one of the few that really cares and has knowledge / experience when it comes to this type of stuff. Yes sometimes he comes off a little rough (I didn't like him when he first started posting here), his posts can rattle a few nerves and but he is pretty true to his word and def has core values that he sticks by and is an asset to this website and community as a whole.

You didn't like me???? Lol thank you for the kindish words. I really do appreciate it. And no I generally don't beat around the bush when it comes to safety. I do much better at that in person with paying customers. But I have zero tolerance for it when it comes to professionals in a field where they should absolutely know better.

As far as the barometric damper goes it would be fantastic on a wood stove if it didn't introduce dilution air into the smoke steam. On oil gas and coal stoves that dilution air doesn't hurt anything as long as it is the right amount. But dilution air in a wood stove causes lots of problems

 

[Diabel]

You didn't like me???? Lol thank you for the kindish words. I really do appreciate it. And no I generally don't beat around the bush when it comes to safety. I do much better at that in person with paying customers. But I have zero tolerance for it when it comes to professionals in a field where they should absolutely know better.

As far as the barometric damper goes it would be fantastic on a wood stove if it didn't introduce dilution air into the smoke steam. On oil gas and coal stoves that dilution air doesn't hurt anything as long as it is the right amount. But dilution air in a wood stove causes lots of problems

I would not have beers with neither of you in real life. But here you both are swell!

 

[bholler]

I would not have beers with neither of you in real life. But here you both are swell!

You guys are all jerks I am leaving. Lol

 

[Woody Stover]

You guys are all jerks I am leaving. Lol

I know you weren't referring to me!
Hey, wait a minute, you use "crimp-lock" pipe? That's not the snap-together-seam pipe I used to use for chimney, is it? That was connector, though. Lucky my house didn't end up a pile of ash.

 

[bholler]

I know you weren't referring to me!
Hey, wait a minute, you use "crimp-lock" pipe? That's not the snap-together-seam pipe I used to use for chimney, is it? That was connector, though. Lucky my house didn't end up a pile of ash.

I have snap lock connector pipe in my house it works just fine. We give people the option or welded or snaplock. But we put on way more snaplock mainly because we can carry large quantities on the truck

 

[Woody Stover]

Alright then, just seems a bit iffy to me, compared to welded..but I know next to nothing. Heck, I would pull the rotted snap-lock connector up out of the clay liner and throw it off the roof, it sometimes had holes in it and would hit the ground and flatten out. But I never saw a snap seam come apart, even though I had a few chimney fires in it..

 

[bholler]

Alright then, just seems a bit iffy to me, compared to welded..but I know next to nothing. Heck, I would pull the rotted snap-lock connector up out of the clay liner and throw it off the roof, it sometimes had holes in it and would hit the ground and flatten out. But I never saw a snap seam come apart, even though I had a few chimney fires in it..

Without a doubt the welded stuff is better but snap lock is fine. Most of the time if we upgrade pipe we go straight to double wall. And no I would never put any snaplock in a chimney. It is not rated as a liner even if it is stainless. Crimp lock can be.

 

[Woody Stover]

It is not rated as a liner even if it is stainless. Crimp lock can be.

This was before I had internet, so I didn't know squat. I went to buy more pipe, at the stove shop this time instead of the farm store, and the guy asks "You want stainless?" I was all over that, figured I could avoid the 'sacred' holey pipe.