2020-21 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[Diabel]

I have never seen my cat glow bright orange, always dull red or not glow at all. I suppose this is normal since every set up is different.


On a different note. This load (#3) went in yesterday at 3:00pm. Loosely stacked shorties of sugar maple, yellow birch and a piece of hemlock.




And this is now.


Boring stove I must say.

 

[Nealm66]

It’s kinda funny , I’d imagine anybody who ever owned a catalytic stove has tried to see the glow through the darkness . My cat glows more than your cat ha ha! I screwed up yesterday and set my swoosh and popped a big marinated tri tip roast in the oven for 3.5 hours. Lesson learned. Funny though, I asked the wife if I should open up some windows and she said nope.

 

[Highbeam]

Wow, 20,000 hours seems like a lot of free heat! I wonder highbeam, it seems like my fire is definitely fully engulfed and maybe it’s because of my premature reload? Can that cause harm?( not just loss of facial hair) I always check after about 5-10 minutes after I lower my swoosh and the cat is always about about 1/4-1/2” from the highest point on the gauge. Also, in case anybody is wondering, I’m not a fan of baseboard trim. I mean, why..

Can’t hurt a thing to leave it on high too long or even to not bake in a fresh load long enough. I think the manual recommends a long initial bake for best results and not to prevent damage.

Problem I have with baseboards is getting them perfect takes a lot of trips to the saw. Some advice, use the pvc trim in the bathrooms. The standard white mdf trim can not handle moisture. Not even normal floor cleaning moisture.

 

[Highbeam]

I have gone off the rails with the cat gasket... last year I fabricated stainless steel shims (just 4 pieces of sheet metal folded into Vs to fill the gaps around the cat). Now I can pull my cat for free, so I give it a distilled vinegar spray and distilled water rinse every time I sweep the chimney. (This was actually the product of a private conversation I had with Ashful, wherever he is this year! We were discussing his fly ash issues with Steelcats, and bemoaning the $7.50 fee to pull the cat...)

I'm also running my cat past the end of its rated life this year... it's coming up on 20k estimated hours. It doesn't glow red hot when the stove is on low like it used to when it was new, but it still glows red when the stove is going.

Cool idea making reusable cat gaskets. How many acid washes has it taken to go 20k? Ease of cat removal and longer cat life are both welcome changes.

 

[begreen]

Problem I have with baseboards is getting them perfect takes a lot of trips to the saw. Some advice, use the pvc trim in the bathrooms. The standard white mdf trim can not handle moisture. Not even normal floor cleaning moisture.

Sounds like high moisture. Our mdf baseboards in the bathroom went in 17 yrs. ago. They still look good. I think I painted or at least primed the backsides before putting them in. But now that you mention it, I will keep an eye on them.

 

[Nealm66]

Thanks for the tip! I actually bought less than fully needed and never knew that about the bathroom. Going to set up some saw horses in the am and paint in the stove room and maybe get started in the pm. 44 inside 46 outside. How /why.. oh well, luckily work with a finish carpenter who offered to come and help if I tap out. Nice to have someone like that just to bounce questions off. He never mentioned pvc trim though

 

[jetsam]

Cool idea making reusable cat gaskets. How many acid washes has it taken to go 20k? Ease of cat removal and longer cat life are both welcome changes.

It's had one bath and several spraydowns and rinses in that time.

It is definitely not performing like a new cat, and while that is fine in cold weather, a cat that kicks in and hangs in at lower temps is needed for shoulder season.

That said, some people use the same cat for 10 years straight, so it all really comes down to what your personal definition of acceptable performance is. (I know we've had this conversation before!)

My gaskets are cut at 90 degrees, which is wrong if you want expansion room plus no cracks at the corners; I may do a version 2 with tighter tolerances and angled horizontals one of these days.

 

[jetsam]

Problem I have with baseboards is getting them perfect takes a lot of trips to the saw.

I used to take lots of trips. Now I measure the length, cut 45 degree miters, and whatever the difference is between 90° and reality gets filled in with caulk. Perfect.

 

[Nealm66]

I just noticed the don’t need paint stickers while I was packing it in. Hmmm.

 

[Nealm66]

It's had one bath and several spraydowns and rinses in that time.

It is definitely not performing like a new cat, and while that is fine in cold weather, a cat that kicks in and hangs in at lower temps is needed for shoulder season.

That said, some people use the same cat for 10 years straight, so it all really comes down to what your personal definition of acceptable performance is. (I know we've had this conversation before!)

My gaskets are cut at 90 degrees, which is wrong if you want expansion room plus no cracks at the corners; I may do a version 2 with tighter tolerances and angled horizontals one of these days.

As a newcomer, I feel as long as it can burn for a long time and produce adequate heat and my firewood is free and easy to get, I may just run it. But realistically for me, I don’t have a problem replacing one if it needs it as it saves so much money. But now I’m wondering with what you just said, hth do I know if it’s still doing the job? I plan on brushing/vacuuming etc. but is there a huge noticeable difference so I can just plop one in and on I go? Or are you guys like super fine tuned to any nuances

 

[jetsam]

As a newcomer, I feel as long as it can burn for a long time and produce adequate heat and my firewood is free and easy to get, I may just run it. But realistically for me, I don’t have a problem replacing one if it needs it as it saves so much money. But now I’m wondering with what you just said, hth do I know if it’s still doing the job? I plan on brushing/vacuuming etc. but is there a huge noticeable difference so I can just plop one in and on I go? Or are you guys like super fine tuned to any nuances

I came from old pre-EPA stoves. When my stove starts burning like that, cat's dead!

Let's see... to be more specific, the cat should light off around 400-500°. If the surface of the flame guard is over 400-500° and the cold stove isn't going ping ping ping, that's a fairly easy one (on my stove anyway, I can hear if the area around the cat or the main firebox is pinging because they sound quite different). Visible smoke from the stack at cruising temp is another (we have whole threads on distinguishing steam from smoke if you are interested). Cat doesn't glow when the stove is at temp on medium/high with dry wood is a really dead cat (the last cat I retired would still do this).

 

[Nealm66]

Ok, fair enough. I’m not sure what my temperature is at the flame guard is or where the flame guard is period but my old pre epa stove was about done in 8-9 hours which is definitely a difference I can relate to . So thank you! I’ll probably swap it out before it gets close to that point. Sounds like highbeam swaps his out about 2 years? I’m probably going to burn about the same with same type fuel/climate so maybe I’ll just plan on it so I don’t have to diagnose it

 

[Highbeam]

Thanks for the tip! I actually bought less than fully needed and never knew that about the bathroom. Going to set up some saw horses in the am and paint in the stove room and maybe get started in the pm. 44 inside 46 outside. How /why.. oh well, luckily work with a finish carpenter who offered to come and help if I tap out. Nice to have someone like that just to bounce questions off. He never mentioned pvc trim though

It’s great stuff. Paints, nails, cuts like mdf but will not puff up if it gets wet. Wife was upset when that happened with bathroom #1 so #2 was pvc and it’s really nice. Profile matches the regular stuff too so nobody knows.

 

[Highbeam]

Ok, fair enough. I’m not sure what my temperature is at the flame guard is or where the flame guard is period but my old pre epa stove was about done in 8-9 hours which is definitely a difference I can relate to . So thank you! I’ll probably swap it out before it gets close to that point. Sounds like highbeam swaps his out about 2 years? I’m probably going to burn about the same with same type fuel/climate so maybe I’ll just plan on it so I don’t have to diagnose it

It’s not subtle. You’ll know when it fails. Biggest clues are chimney smoke and way shorter burn times because you need a higher stat setting to stay warm. Don’t resist, new cats are cheap.

 

[Nealm66]

Good to know! I’m on the fence really, seems so simple to just pop a new one in every couple years and not sweat it but the curious side might win out. I’ll look for the pvc stuff. Thank you!

 

[jetsam]

It’s not subtle. You’ll know when it fails. Biggest clues are chimney smoke and way shorter burn times because you need a higher stat setting to stay warm. Don’t resist, new cats are cheap.

I have to be honest, I would have replaced this steelcat this year if BKVP hadn't told that story about his 10 year cat...

 

[Highbeam]

I have to be honest, I would have replaced this steelcat this year if BKVP hadn't told that story about his 10 year cat...

If it’s still working well enough for you, run it! They do lose the bottom end first so if you tend to run at hotter settings then you can probably get a little more time.

Years of life is such a poor measure. Hours of active time is far more relevant.

I really like the way these stoves run with a functional cat.

 

[jetsam]

If it’s still working well enough for you, run it! They do lose the bottom end first so if you tend to run at hotter settings then you can probably get a little more time.

Years of life is such a poor measure. Hours of active time is far more relevant.

I really like the way these stoves run with a functional cat.

I got the feeling his year is around the same as my year (~5k hours). We dug into that a couple years back, I think.

 

[Nealm66]

I guess it would be kind of boring if a person didn’t let it play out to see how long it will last lol. Plus it would be like swapping in a new engine in a race car. Maybe in a couple years they will have a turbo model

 

[Nealm66]

I definitely feel better now having a more clear idea of what to look for when it go’s kaput. Thanks again !

 

[jetsam]

The issue is that they need a LOT of catalyst surface area to get the job done. The industry standard solution, which AFAIK is in place because it was available as an off-the-shelf component, is a steel honeycomb with an aluminum oxide wash coat.

The wash coat provides an irregular, very high surface area surface, and is required to adhere the catalyst to the substrate. But the wash coat is also the bit that sags and buries the catalyst as it collapses and its surface area is no longer adequate to do what we need it to do.

No chemist am I, and I'm sure if there was an easy and cheap answer to finding a better wash coat, they'd be using it by now.

There is always the other route though, which is using the existing chemistry, starting with a flat wash coat, and increasing substrate surface area. This is complicated by solid fuel- you get a lot of debris in the exhaust- so you're not allowed to have long tubes, and only straight shots so they can be cleaned out easily.

In the end, the question probably becomes, "Will we sell more conventional looking stoves that take consumable cats, which the average purchaser will never need to replace because they will put about ten hours on it in its lifetime, OR would we sell more six foot high stoves with lifetime cats that are as large as the firebox?"

I'm not a stove manufacturer, and even though I would totally buy a six foot tall stove with a lifetime cat, I can see that that's a niche market (especially since a lifetime cat needs a lifetime of maintenance, because even a flat wash coat will experience masking).

Right now I think the alternatives are all worse (those being primary-only combustion which suck, tube/baffle stoves which don't go low and slow, and wood gasification which has a set of associated penalties and headaches that will make you wish you'd stuck to one of the previous ones)- but I do hope cats improve.

This has been late night random thoughts from jetsam. Tune in next time when I try to work out how to modify a cat so it won't randomly swat my stuff off of tables. (I have a couple ideas already.)

 

[Nealm66]

Very well said! My wife would really like to have something to keep the cat from knocking things off the table as well!

 

[Nealm66]

Have you noticed any gain in lifespan by cleaning more often? I was thinking the next mild weekend of letting the fire go out again and clean and check everything out. I guess everyone has to weigh things out differently. I for one have days where I’m gone 12-15 hours and I don’t even hurry to get to the stove now so $150 cat which looks easy to replace, heck , you couldn’t give me one of the other stoves now with free delivered wood.

 

[Nealm66]

I was super close to owning a pellet stove as well. So every day I burn wood I save . I wonder also( for no good reason) if the king has a bigger catalytic and if it lasts longer because so. I wouldn’t want my neighbors lasting or glowing longer than mine

 

[stoveliker]

The issue is that they need a LOT of catalyst surface area to get the job done. The industry standard solution, which AFAIK is in place because it was available as an off-the-shelf component, is a steel honeycomb with an aluminum oxide wash coat.

The wash coat provides an irregular, very high surface area surface, and is required to adhere the catalyst to the substrate. But the wash coat is also the bit that sags and buries the catalyst as it collapses and its surface area is no longer adequate to do what we need it to do.

No chemist am I, and I'm sure if there was an easy and cheap answer to finding a better wash coat, they'd be using it by now.

There is always the other route though, which is using the existing chemistry, starting with a flat wash coat, and increasing substrate surface area. This is complicated by solid fuel- you get a lot of debris in the exhaust- so you're not allowed to have long tubes, and only straight shots so they can be cleaned out easily.

In the end, the question probably becomes, "Will we sell more conventional looking stoves that take consumable cats, which the average purchaser will never need to replace because they will put about ten hours on it in its lifetime, OR would we sell more six foot high stoves with lifetime cats that are as large as the firebox?"

I'm not a stove manufacturer, and even though I would totally buy a six foot tall stove with a lifetime cat, I can see that that's a niche market (especially since a lifetime cat needs a lifetime of maintenance, because even a flat wash coat will experience masking).

Right now I think the alternatives are all worse (those being primary-only combustion which suck, tube/baffle stoves which don't go low and slow, and wood gasification which has a set of associated penalties and headaches that will make you wish you'd stuck to one of the previous ones)- but I do hope cats improve.

This has been late night random thoughts from jetsam. Tune in next time when I try to work out how to modify a cat so it won't randomly swat my stuff off of tables. (I have a couple ideas already.)

The 6 ft tall example won't work because the impedance for the flue gases will be too high. It's a fine line between more active area with which the gases can interact so that most combustibles get burned up versus too much area with the impedance deteriorating the draft too much.

And even a nominally flat area won't last a lifetime because catalytically active sites do get poisoned, do diffuse and coagulate, decreasing the capacity to perform to specs.

As none of the stove mfgs makes their own cat (it's a real specialty), improving this, if at all possible (apart from discovering better catalyst species), requires an investment of the stove mfgs that is intimately tuned to an investment of the cat mfgs - hard to pull off without getting into a joint venture.

My early morning ramble (day off....) - clearly I need my coffee now