2020 EPA Certified Pacific Energy wood stoves

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Trevor Tahclep

New Member
Oct 13, 2020
11
Quebec, Canada
Does anyone know if the mandated 2020 EPA certification changes and Pacific Energy stove modifications and modest redesign have improved burn times on a PE Classic and Summit ?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,580
South Puget Sound, WA
Burn time is so subjective that this may be hard to quantify. There are so many variables involved. Unfortunately, Tom's shop up in Bellingham closed at the start of this year. He had the setup and testing history for these stoves. The firebox design is essentially the same. I would not expect a dramatic change from the previous generation. The reports from folks that have the LE models has been favorable so far.
 

Trevor Tahclep

New Member
Oct 13, 2020
11
Quebec, Canada
Thank you for your reply Begreen, I guess I need to clarify my question .
All things and factors being identical except for the stoves themselves does a 2020 PE Classic offer longer lasting burn times versus its previous Spectrum Classic sibling. What operating and real life differences are there really with the exception of the addition of EBT2 ?
What reasons and improvements would make you replace a 2000 Spectrum Classic or Super 27 model certified for 4.5 gr/h back then with a current 2020 Classic 2020 EPA approved emitting 2 gr/h ?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,580
South Puget Sound, WA
That's unknown. The Spectrum had a linked secondary air valve which helped it achieve good long burns. The EBT was developed on the larger Summit series. It was successful enough in its second incarnation to now migrate to the mid-sized Super series. The other difference is that it looks like PE added more secondary holes on the bottom of the baffle for more complete secondary combustion. I wouldn't replace an older PE stove in good working condition with a new one. With reasonable care they last a long time. Our Alderlea T6 is a 12 yr old Series A. It still gets the job done well and has only needed gasket replacement. But if I moved into a a new home that needed a smaller stove the T5 or Spectrum LE would be at the top of the list unless there were other mitigating factors. I also like the Jotul T45, so that would probably be a strong second.
 

Trevor Tahclep

New Member
Oct 13, 2020
11
Quebec, Canada
Thank you for your reply.
I am worried that PE had added additional air injection to obtain a cleaner burn to the detriment of the overall burn time. We own a 1999 Spectrum Classic small arch door model installed new back then which is our primary heat source, normally we burn 7-10 face cords per year depending on winter's severity. We replace the door and window gaskets every 3 years or so on average and last year replaced both side rails after 20 years of use, otherwise still original, this stove still looks new after 21 years of use and operates as it did when installed back in 1999. The gold and the porcelain enamel looks like new. PE does make a extremely solid and high quality stove. We are thinking of a new home and of course a new PE wood stove to put in it.

1999 Spectrum Classic Black & Gold.jpg
 
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Todd

Minister of Fire
Nov 19, 2005
9,402
NW Wisconsin
Good question, I've been wondering the same thing as well as other manufactures like Jotul. You'd think that adding more air to the firebox will cut down burn times or even send more heat up the flue? I guess time will tell as we see more stove reviews.
 

Mech e

Feeling the Heat
Feb 26, 2019
385
NorCal
www.dtengineer.com
I went from a 1988 Osburn to a 2020 Drolet (both SBI). The overall designs are very similar other than a vermiculite baffle and air tubes on the new stove. I have not noticed a decrease in burn times between the two designs. Purely a qualitative analysis.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,150
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Just adding more air, raising the minimum burn rate and lowering the burn time is the lazy way to meet emissions standards. I’m sure some companies did just that. Some companies added band aid catalytic converters. Some didn’t need to do anything but retest using the new procedures. Some did a thoughtful tweak or two that probably should have been done long ago that actually made the stove better.

Which did PE do? Who knows. The LE stove is new since may and we haven’t been through a winter yet. All previews seem to indicate that only minor adjustments were made with no profound differences other than moving the EBT system from the summit firebox down to the super.

Of all the noncat 2020 stoves, I still like the PE.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,580
South Puget Sound, WA
Just adding more air, raising the minimum burn rate and lowering the burn time is the lazy way to meet emissions standards. I’m sure some companies did just that. Some companies added band aid catalytic converters. Some didn’t need to do anything but retest using the new procedures. Some did a thoughtful tweak or two that probably should have been done long ago that actually made the stove better.

Which did PE do? Who knows. The LE stove is new since may and we haven’t been through a winter yet. All previews seem to indicate that only minor adjustments were made with no profound differences other than moving the EBT system from the summit firebox down to the super.

Of all the noncat 2020 stoves, I still like the PE.
The LE series was introduced in Jan 2019 and started showing up in stores around March 2019. We saw a few of them go through a full season last winter.
 
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Trevor Tahclep

New Member
Oct 13, 2020
11
Quebec, Canada
Thank you everyone for your replies and comments.

After a bit more research there really does not seem to be all that much difference between my 21 year old Spectrum Classic and what is now called the Classic LE. The door is of course is a bit larger now than the 1999 D design, less porcelain colors offered now than back then, no more integrated efficiency indicator located below the door, no more side mounted slide air control located behind the gold plated side trim panel, the insulation blanket is now integrated in to the baffle instead of resting on top of the baffle, the 1999 model emitted 3.4 gm/hr vs the current EPA2 1.8 gm/hr, the stove size has remained the same so have the required stove to combustible clearances.

I guess there really has not been any need to drastically modify and change what now seems to be a winning design and concept except for what seems to be tweaks.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,580
South Puget Sound, WA
The growth of their products has been evolutionary. The major changes have been with the introduction of the Neo line and the successful FP, ZC fireplaces.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,150
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Even the apparent reduction in emissions rate could be entirely due to the very different test method used for 2020 certification.
 

iceman

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2006
2,403
Springfield Ma (western mass)
I am in the market for another insert...
I see PE is still one of the best.. I was thinking of a lopi but I kinda feel like I should stay with PE maybe a NEO - any difference between the NEO and the summit besides smaller firebox and flush? Internals still the same ?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,580
South Puget Sound, WA
I am in the market for another insert...
I see PE is still one of the best.. I was thinking of a lopi but I kinda feel like I should stay with PE maybe a NEO - any difference between the NEO and the summit besides smaller firebox and flush? Internals still the same ?
Stick with your Summit. It has a more flexibly sized firebox.
 

iceman

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2006
2,403
Springfield Ma (western mass)
Stick with your Summit. It has a more flexibly sized firebox.

lol my summit sold with my house... Are you suggesting another one? I really, really want a big window.. I have been looking at the Enerzone 2.7 but Ihavent heard much about enerzone? This make me feel like getting the neo2.5.... I really like the flush mount look
But a summit would be overkill I know
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,580
South Puget Sound, WA
lol my summit sold with my house... Are you suggesting another one? I really, really want a big window.. I have been looking at the Enerzone 2.7 but Ihavent heard much about enerzone? This make me feel like getting the neo2.5.... I really like the flush mount look
But a summit would be overkill I know
Enerzone is made by SBI and a sibling of Osburn and Drolet. It's a good brand.
 

Trevor Tahclep

New Member
Oct 13, 2020
11
Quebec, Canada
Enerzone is a division of SBI International. SBI operate 4 or 5 manufacturing plants that manufacture the following brands, Osburn, Enerzone, Drolet, Valcourt, Century Heating & Caddy, They manufacture excellent products and are customer or end user focused for parts and service.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,580
South Puget Sound, WA
Drolet bought the assets of Osburn back around 2002. They have been building the company up since then. Then they bought Flame, now another SBI brand, around 2005. This helped them break into the North American market. Then they bought Valcourt a couple years later to expand into the ZC marketplace. Century was purchased a year after that.
PS: SBI owns a majority share in Olympia Chimney (Ventis) products too.
 

iceman

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2006
2,403
Springfield Ma (western mass)
I am so confused ! Idk what to do! I really want the flushed look, but I want a large stove, - I was happy with PE but Like ns loading Enerzone i can get a 16 maybe 18 inch n/s.

BUT Lopi has a 3.0 firebox...It’s some $$$ though...
PE uses steel from China??

Also, being a basement fireplace seems I have the negative pressure issue to deal with so wondering if a CAT wouldn’t be better? Since I probably won’t be able to chit primary air all the way down??
Begreen/Hog where are you guys?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,580
South Puget Sound, WA
Sounds like you are getting some facts from the rumor mill or FB. How large is the new house? Why would a Summit be overkill but a big Enerzone or Lopi would not be?
 
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iceman

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2006
2,403
Springfield Ma (western mass)
Sounds like you are getting some facts from the rumor mill or FB. How large is the new house? Why would a Summit be overkill but a big Enerzone or Lopi would not be?

Good question, I was hearing over 3500+ with my summit. Now I need it to heat about 2k from the basement. The summit gave off a lot of radiant heat and had a 3.0 box. I loved the N/s ability with the summit and am having a hard time believing E/w does as well as N/s. I would love a flush mount so looking for the larger I can get my hands on thinking with e/w burn times and any medium size box might not cut it. Also worried about the drafting issue being that it will be located in the basement...

That said I did read somewhere on f/b that PE used steel from China - my other stove was great outside of the crack issue and wondering if that’s why it was welded and not replaced? Although it was a few generations ago PE tech explained why it happened and seemed to have resolved that issue.

Because I will probably have to give it more air due to drafting issue I am wondering if a cat stove would be better over the course of a burn since they are better at lower temps?

Back to the Summit - my other one was in a large room so it looked at home, this room is maybe 10x14 and wondering if it will look to massive. This stove doesn’t have to be my primary heater as I have m/s and H/e boiler but when the power goes out it would be nice if it could be utilized.
 

john26

Minister of Fire
Oct 27, 2008
544
Wildwood MO
have you considered the FP30 ZC fireplace? same fire box as summit with flush as far as power outage maybe hook a ups to it
 

xshmoox

Member
Nov 1, 2015
22
Bucks Co., Pa
Well if the power goes out the flush mount will be just about useless. If you’re you’re trying to heat from the basement I’d go with the summit. You can always build smaller fires and the summit will heat fairly well with the fans not running. So you could always use without the fans if need be. Or if it really doesn’t need to be main source of heat or if you’re worried of overheating the room which I don’t think will happen unless it’s crazy insulated, go with the super/alderlea. Both can be loaded on 12 hour schedules so you can’t go wrong either way. The neo e/w loading would bother me