Older supposedly “efficient” stove eating me out of house and home

[chillyowl]

I bought my house a year and a half ago, it has a ~20 year old Pacific Energy insert with a large 20x20 firebox, I believe a Summit, in the basement. I have it swept yearly, and had the broken firebricks replaced. Grew up heating exclusively with wood, so was happy to have it.

Last winter, the stove sucked, but I blamed it on me burning unseasoned wood, and didn’t use it much, just when my other heat sources broke or it was really cold (and found it woefully insufficient).

This year, I’m using 1.5 year seasoned spruce, and the stove is STILL devouring wood when I use it – I put in 5 or 6 large pieces, filling the stove with as many pieces as I can jam in, come back in 3 hours, and I’m down to barely enough embers to light paper, let alone a log. I’ve tried shutting the damper drastically (up to only 1/3 open), and I don’t find it makes much difference (maybe something wrong with the damper?).

IMO it doesn’t make a huge difference to the temperatures upstairs, just kinda warms the floors a bit no matter how many fans I use to distribute the air.

Previous owner, who hadn’t lived in the house for several years before I bought it, claimed the stove was his primary heat source, and heated the whole house easily, and he’d light it before going to work, put more wood on when he got home, which is more what I’d expect from this size of stove. Today it’s only -17C, I’m filling the stove every 2 hrs, the house is set to 63, and my boiler is on frequently.

Is there anything I can do to troubleshoot it or make it more efficient?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I’m seeing two things we need to work on. Amount of heat coming out of the stove and then burn time.

Let’s look at the heat first. Is the inset located in the living area or the basement?

How many floors are in the house? How tall is the chimney?

Do you know if a blockoff plate and insulation was installed in the top of the fireplace? That can stop the heat from going up the chimney.

Is there a blower installed and working?

What temp is the insert running at?

 

[Whitenuckler]

This year, I’m using 1.5 year seasoned spruce

Spruce would not be my first choice to determine how the stove can perform. Get your hands on a face cord of properly seasoned hardwood and use the spruce as kindling.

 

[chillyowl]

I’m seeing two things we need to work on. Amount of heat coming out of the stove and then burn time.

Let’s look at the heat first. Is the inset located in the living area or the basement?

How many floors are in the house? How tall is the chimney?

Do you know if a blockoff plate and insulation was installed in the top of the fireplace? That can stop the heat from going up the chimney.

Is there a blower installed and working?

What temp is the insert running at?

House is a 1200 sq ft not-well insulated raised bungalow with a wood insert in the basement, and a temperamental, failing 20 year old pellet insert on the main floor. Pellet insert can heat the entire main floor, with fans moving air around if it's above -10C. I haven't been able to use it for a month so am using my oil boiler and trying to supplement with the wood stove on cold days.

Wood stove chimney's probably 25 ft+ above the pellet stove. I haven't noticed any back drafting unless it is super windy and cold when I'm starting it, and smoke looks clean if I keep it running hot (and am not an idiot trying to burn wet poplar).

No idea about the install details, it was apparently installed by a local dealer, using a stove pipe not the existing chimney. I don't have a thermometer on the stove, with the blower on the top is always warm, not hot to the touch.

Wood insert is certainly not where I'd have put it! - it's in a long rec room, and heat needs to travel across the room, into the hall, up the stairs and around a corner to reach the house. The basement is divided into a bunch of rooms, only the utility room gets appreciably warm from the stove. ( It's also a stupidly long distance to carry wood).

I keep the blower on max and I use 2 fans to direct heat at floor level towards the stove from the hallway, and I have fans moving heat upstairs, too. The stairwell feels warm after a few hours of burning - I should have a fan there, and don't (no outlets). After burning all day, filling every 2 hrs, it's 22-25C at the far end of the rec room. The other rooms in the basement don't get hugely warmer, but I don't care to direct air there. Upstairs , I do notice a bit of heat in the kitchen (where the stairwell exits) and keep that ceiling fan on, but essentially none in the hallway 10 ft away, where the thermostat for the boiler is. The stove is immediately under the upstairs living room, and does make that floor less cold, too, but hasn't a hope of touching the bathroom/bedrooms/dining room.

Spruce would not be my first choice to determine how the stove can perform. Get your hands on a face cord of properly seasoned hardwood and use the spruce as kindling.

I have another 3-4 cords of the spruce, and another 1.5 cords of not yet dry cottonwood. Took down a bunch of big trees. That would be more than a lifetime's kindling lol.

Buying more firewood's not in the budget this year after a bunch of emergency renos, hopefully this spring for the fall. I did burn maple for a few days last winter, didn't notice much difference.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Are your basement walls insulated?

 

[chillyowl]

OVer 3/4 of the basement walls are insulated though it's not well done insulation.
The rec room where the stove is is insulated. One wall of the utility room isn't insulated (no space behind the oil tank /washer/dryer/utility sink/water treatment stuff) and one wall of what I think is supposed to be a cold room isn't insulated, but the partition walls for that room are insulated.

 

[begreen]

Wood insert is certainly not where I'd have put it! - it's in a long rec room, and heat needs to travel across the room, into the hall, up the stairs and around a corner to reach the house.

The stove is an area heater. This doesn't sound like the best heating setup. It's going to heat the room, not the house. Is there a fireplace on the first floor where the insert might move to?

If the draft is strong, you may be able to close the air almost completely. Also, if the draft is strong, closing off the boost air port will tame the fire a bit.

 

[EbS-P]

Wood stove chimney's probably 25 ft+ above the pellet stove.

So how tall is wood stoves chimney? 25’ total? Or more.

 

[chillyowl]

The stove is an area heater. This doesn't sound like the best heating setup. It's going to heat the room, not the house. Is there a fireplace on the first floor where the insert might move to?

If the draft is strong, you may be able to close the air almost completely. Also, if the draft is strong, closing off the boost air port will tame the fire a bit.

I've closed it down to 1/3 without noticing any difference. I can try closing further.

Where/what is the boost air port? That sounds promising.

It does a remarkably bad job as an area heater. I'd expect a 300 sq ft room to be warmer than 22-25c after 12 hrs of burning the equivalent of 2.5-3 large splits of seasoned spruce per hour with the boiler, which usually keeps that room 10-15C, running all day too.

It does not behave like an airtight stove (based on having heated with 5 other 1990s-2020s airtight stovesbin even worse insulated houses).

There is a fireplace on the main floor - it has a failing pellet insert in it. I usually use it for 70% of my heating burning 1 bag/day on medium heat, which gets the same size room as the rec room, with bad insulation + a full wall of windows to 25-28 C if I am not doing a good job circulating air around the house with fans. Sadly it would be hard to get sufficient clearance to combustibles for a wood insert there.

I 'd like at some point to put a freestanding stove in a smarter location in the basement, but it's not a priority for a few years.

So how tall is wood stoves chimney? 25’ total? Or more.

Sorry. That was horribly written. 25 ft above the wood stove,not pellet stove.

I suck at estimating heights, but but the pipe for the woodstove is at least 25 ft, but definitely not 35 ft. Far taller than i can reach on a 15 ft ladder, + 3 ft underground.

 

[EbS-P]

I've closed it down to 1/3 without noticing any difference. I can try closing further.

Where/what is the boost air port? That sounds promising.

It does a remarkably bad job as an area heater. I'd expect a 300 sq ft room to be warmer than 22-25c after 12 hrs of burning the equivalent of 2.5-3 large splits of seasoned spruce per hour with the boiler, which usually keeps that room 10-15C, running all day too.

It does not behave like an airtight stove (based on having heated with 5 other 1990s-2020s airtight stovesbin even worse insulated houses).

There is a fireplace on the main floor - it has a failing pellet insert in it. I usually use it for 70% of my heating burning 1 bag/day on medium heat, which gets the same size room as the rec room, with bad insulation + a full wall of windows to 25-28 C if I am not doing a good job circulating air around the house with fans. Sadly it would be hard to get sufficient clearance to combustibles for a wood insert there.

I 'd like at some point to put a freestanding stove in a smarter location in the basement, but it's not a priority for a few years.


Sorry. That was horribly written. 25 ft above the wood stove,not pellet stove.

I suck at estimating heights, but but the pipe for the woodstove is at least 25 ft, but definitely not 35 ft. Far taller than i can reach on a 15 ft ladder, + 3 ft underground.

With 23’ of liner I only keep the damper open for 5 minutes at startup. And once it’s burning it’s at 25% open or less. On a hot reload. It’s full closed once secondaries light off.

Different stove different setup. Measuring flue gas temps and stove tops temps is the only way to make sure you operati g the stove for max heat output.

 

[Todd]

Try shutting down your air more. Sometimes there are very slight adjustments with the air control that can make a big difference. Your sweet spot may be just a smidge open.

 

[chillyowl]

I can't measure the flue temps - no access to the flue. The stove top remains cool enough to touch with the blower on, and the side panels are where the blower intakes air, so also not hot.

This morning I loaded in 5 large splits of spruce, and a bit of kindling,and adjusted damper to a smidge off of fully closed after the big logs were burning nicely for a few min wirh the firebox full of flame. Stove filled with smoke and the fire tried to die out on me. Opened the damper to half, it restarted, waited another couple min for the flame to recover, then shut it down to less than 1/4. Got a fair bit of smoke, but I thought it was sustaining flame, walked away for a few min, and the flame died by the time I was back. Ugh.

Relit it, walked away again for another 5 min. One of the logs was fully charred on all sides, and glowing, other logs are well lit with bright, energetic flame. Closed it down to 1/4 damper. After 2 min, the flame was definitely dying again. I increased it to 1/3 damper, and after 2 min had more flame though still limited amount, rather than the whole firebox alight.

I have left it at 1/3 to go out and snowblow now - someone decided I needed 40 cm of snow!- so probably don't have the right patience to be playing with the stove today, but will try to remember to fill it in 2 hrs, and try to reduce the damper again, when it is nice and hot.

 

[Todd]

Sounds like you may have shut it down too soon? Sometimes it’s good to adjust down in stages, full, half then low. The whole process could take 20-30 minutes.

 

[brenndatomu]

Wonder if a mouse has an air passage(s) plugged up...?

 

[brenndatomu]

As for moving the heat upstairs and around the house, have you ever tried having a small fan placed on the floor at the top of the basement stairwell but pointed down the steps, running on low? Cool air is denser then warm, so easier to move around...if you pressurise the basement with cool air, the warm will be pushed up/out. Slow n steady wins the race though...move too much air too fast and it makes the house feel cool/drafty.
Then once you get it upstairs, you can place another small fan at the far side of the house, on the floor, blowing cold air back toward the stairwell...

 

[chillyowl]

I left it for 45 min on 1/3 draft while I did the first pass of snowblowing. Came back to log-shaped coals. I added two more splits, and lowered damper to a smidge less than fully closed.

Came back in an hour, so after about 2-2.5 hrs total of burning 7 splits today. I would say I am getting a bit more heat? The room went from 12C when I started the fire, to 21C. I am seeing some reburning on the top in the middle which I don't recall seeing before. Flames are dark red, and the original logs are down to coals, the new logs are fully carbonized, glowing, log shaped coals that shatter when I hit them with a poker. I left it without adding any more wood, will try to remember to check back in an hour.

 

[chillyowl]

As for moving the heat upstairs and around the house, have you ever tried having a small fan placed on the floor at the top of the basement stairwell but pointed down the steps, running on low? Cool air is denser then warm, so easier to move around...if you pressurise the basement with cool air, the warm will be pushed up/out. Slow n steady wins the race though...move too much air too fast and it makes the house feel cool/drafty.
Then once you get it upstairs, you can place another small fan at the far side of the house, on the floor, blowing cold air back toward the stairwell...

Stairwell is super awkward - no outlets, the landing to my garage is halfway up, and any fans at the top of the stairs would be in the middle of my kitchen walking path.

Downstairs, I have one fan in the doorway to the rec room, which faces the stairwell, pulling cold air along the floor into the room, then another in the rec room on the floor.

Upstairs, I keep the kitchen ceiling fan on, washing air down the walls, and have a fan in the hallway running to pull cool air from the bedrooms down the hall along the floor, plus a few other ceiling fans I use to get the heat from the pellet stove to reach the bedrooms. If I could get the insert producing an appreciable amount of heat in the basement hall, I'd invest in a small ceiling fan to replace the stairwell light, because I know some heat pools at the top of the stairs above the doorframe to the kitchen.

 

[brenndatomu]

I left it for 45 min on 1/3 draft while I did the first pass of snowblowing. Came back to log-shaped coals. I added two more splits, and lowered damper to a smidge less than fully closed.

Came back in an hour, so after about 2-2.5 hrs total of burning 7 splits today. I would say I am getting a bit more heat? The room went from 12C when I started the fire, to 21C. I am seeing some reburning on the top in the middle which I don't recall seeing before. Flames are dark red, and the original logs are down to coals, the new logs are fully carbonized, glowing, log shaped coals that shatter when I hit them with a poker. I left it without adding any more wood, will try to remember to check back in an hour.

Man, that sure sounds like wet wood...

 

[stoveliker]

1.5 year spruce.

How do you dry your wood?
Stacked, piled, on what, and what's keeping the rain off?

 

[chillyowl]

3 hrs into burning, 2 hrs since last logs in, no longer seeing any reburning, room still 21C.

4 hrs in, 3hrs since last logs, down to glowing pieces, but more intact than yesterday at 2 hrs. Room still 21C. Have definitely increased burn time. Reloaded with 5 more big splits, left damper barely open.

Hmm... Wet wood... Maybe a few pieces, but I don't think thats my main problem?

Today's wood is wetter than the wood I was using yesterday. I brought it in yesterday, and picked up fallen stuff out of the path so I wouldn't hit them with the snowblower today (my dog likes to hunt things in my wood pile) and I dragged it through snow on a sled so it was covered in snow when I got it in. Very possible some of the pieces I put in this morning are fallen on the ground pieces, which would explain why one piece lit fast and one piece did not.

I try to keep half a face cord in my basement, which is 35% humidity, so it's there for at least a couple days to dry off any snow or rain before using it, but I ran through it too quickly trying to keep the fire going 3 days in a row.

How do I dry wood?

It's cut, split, stacked in July-Sept of 2024. The spruce behaved like it was dry by Spring 2025, and Summer 2025 we didn't get rain for 3-4 months.

I take one sled load from in front the front of my 2 cord woodshed, which is on plywood over pallets with a roof, but annoyingly, has mostly solid sidewalls and is shaded, the next from a 2.5 cord round stack with a sloped top, bark side up, at the sunny top of a south facing windy hill with excellent airflow which I don't use the sacrificial bottom row from. Watching it this year, even in heavy rain only the faces got wet. I suppose now that I disturbed the top this winter, it could be getting rained on.

Cottonwood is debarked piled on pallets with a sloped top, and in a round mound, and definitely not dry, though the cottonwood mound is dri-er than the pallets by the woodshed.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Yeah, sounds like wet wood to me too. I’d still check that blockoff plate and flue insulation. It’s not fun to have any extra heat go up that flue! It’s better in the room!

 

[begreen]

I left it for 45 min on 1/3 draft while I did the first pass of snowblowing. Came back to log-shaped coals. I added two more splits, and lowered damper to a smidge less than fully closed.

Came back in an hour, so after about 2-2.5 hrs total of burning 7 splits today. I would say I am getting a bit more heat? The room went from 12C when I started the fire, to 21C. I am seeing some reburning on the top in the middle which I don't recall seeing before. Flames are dark red, and the original logs are down to coals, the new logs are fully carbonized, glowing, log shaped coals that shatter when I hit them with a poker. I left it without adding any more wood, will try to remember to check back in an hour.

I'm almost certain that if the wood is fully seasoned, then most of the heat is heading straight up the flue. I can not run our stove at 1/3d open without too high flue temps, >1000º. In colder weather our air control is about 95% closed once the fire is burning decently. That results in a ~650º flue temp and 600º stove top temp with softwood burning. If the air control needs to be 1/3d open just to keep the wood burning without smoldering, then the wood is not seasoned properly or the draft is weak and compromised.

 

[chillyowl]

Rec room still 21C, no particularly palpable heat upstairs or in the stairwell, with the damper all but a hair closed, 6hrs into burning, 12 pieces of wood. The stove's at least chewing the wood today, not swallowing it whole and spitting it into the sky.

So thank you all, it's running much more efficiently!

About 2/3 of the reburn holes were burning when I checked on it. I realized the front of the sideways log at the front was not burning well, both burns today. Poked it back, and all the burn holes lit, and the middle ones went to blue flame!! I will change how I load it next time.

Part of the issue may be that the thermostat for the boiler is in one of the first places the heat from the stove would reach upstairs, so the house maybe feels colder because the boiler doesn't run as often. On my to do list is moving the thermostat down the hall, since the pellet stove does the same thing.

Chimney Insulation
I can't easily remove the panels on the wood insert to peek up the chimney, but I checked the pellet stove, installed at the same time, and there is a layer of insulation above it, so I'll assume that isn't the issue.

 

[bigealta]

Getting good secondary flames is key. You are making progress. I too second that wet wood may have been part of your problem with some of those poor burns. Wet wood is like ice cubes on your fire.