2020 stoves with single wall pipe?

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willc

Member
Dec 7, 2012
9
Forgive me if this has been asked before or is in the wrong area.
We are going to change out our blazeking king? to an Alderlea T4 . The Blazeking overheats the house quickly (917 SF 2 room cabin)
with just a very small fire. I have a massive stone hearth and chimney that is the terra cotta flue with 6" single running thru that to the stove.
Are we going to be ok to run single wall with this new stove? We are weekend and cold snap users.
Thank you in advance.
[Hearth.com] 2020 stoves with single wall pipe?
 
It depends on the length of your chimney but now a days you're almost always going to want insulted liner for an exterior chimney (interior may be a different story). A better mind than mine here will have that answer but they will likely tell you to insulate it.
 
Chimney looks the same as it does behind the stove till termination 3' above the peak of the roof, giant rock structure with terra cotta liner with a pipe in that
 
I wonder if the T4 has a higher burn rate on low than your Bk does on low. Noncats don’t run really low. Would sure stink to make the swap to solve a problem and only make it worse!
 


900-1500 sq ft ... might just work.
My only concern with BK’s is the seemingly persistent smell of creosote some have posted about over several years. Another thread just popped up a few minutes ago about this very stove, so I’m not dreaming.

I have no idea why this issue seems so persistent, but it could be just random people out of thousands of satisfied customers. I don’t know. I just know this not the first or tenth time I’ve seen it mentioned. Those that don’t have any issues as they are hard to beat and I can see why. Liking burns and a stat will spoil a person.
 
Tried edit my post last night but something happened. Anyway, to my comments about reports of smells coming from these stoves sometimes. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/scirocco-30-has-the-smell.185070/#post-2483753

Not at all trying to dog BK stoves because I am a big fan of theirs. This seems to be a mysterious and recurring issue brought up more than I’d like to see. Again, likely way more satisfied users than those with problems. I just like to see people get help and find solutions and be satisfied.
 
Tried edit my post last night but something happened. Anyway, to my comments about reports of smells coming from these stoves sometimes. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/scirocco-30-has-the-smell.185070/#post-2483753

Not at all trying to dog BK stoves because I am a big fan of theirs. This seems to be a mysterious and recurring issue brought up more than I’d like to see. Again, likely way more satisfied users than those with problems. I just like to see people get help and find solutions and be satisfied.
Very strange. I have 2 BK and no problem. Both Kings. Maybe chimney issue, not stove
 
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Could be, but it always seems to be with these stoves. Maybe it’s my perception because I like BK stoves and when I see it mentioned it garners my attention. Could be that I’m totally oblivious to other stoves with the issue when posted about. I just know that over the last 7/8 years I’ve been searching/researching/reading forums...long before creating accounts and joining forums...I’ve noticed this. Again, just explaining an observation and not digging BK stoves. They are a stove Ibkike quite a bit, so Inhave no reason to make them look bad.
 
Could be, but it always seems to be with these stoves. Maybe it’s my perception because I like BK stoves and when I see it mentioned it garners my attention. Could be that I’m totally oblivious to other stoves with the issue when posted about. I just know that over the last 7/8 years I’ve been searching/researching/reading forums...long before creating accounts and joining forums...I’ve noticed this. Again, just explaining an observation and not digging BK stoves. They are a stove Ibkike quite a bit, so Inhave no reason to make them look bad.
I had the creosote smell bad with my wood chuck 2600. Darn i hated that thing and the smell.
Of course before this forum i thought dry wood was a dead oak. Cut it bring it inside and burn lol
 


900-1500 sq ft ... might just work.
My only concern with BK’s is the seemingly persistent smell of creosote some have posted about over several years. Another thread just popped up a few minutes ago about this very stove, so I’m not dreaming.

I have no idea why this issue seems so persistent, but it could be just random people out of thousands of satisfied customers. I don’t know. I just know this not the first or tenth time I’ve seen it mentioned. Those that don’t have any issues as they are hard to beat and I can see why. Liking burns and a stat will spoil a person.
I only remember it being a problem with the ashford from what I can think of?! I have not read any with the king or princess models but I could have missed those reads!
 
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I had the "smoke smell" issue with my ashford. The factory sent a few shims for the hinge and a 7/8" door gasket. The factory paid my local dealer to place the shims and replace the gasket. No smell since two years ago. Same gasket.
 
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Okay, we have gone off track from my question. I have figured out the tstat on the blaze king fairly well. I can keep it at 74 in here with the t stat at low with a house start temp at 70. But the wife is adamant about a new stove.
I am not loading the stove at all 5 splits tops as this just for ambiance and to knock off the chill in our 56-degree weather.
I would love to pack this thing full and run at low to see if it would hold 74 for a day or overheat us?
 
@willc, where are you located? I ask where you are located because if you are in a cold climate, the T5 might be a better fit.
Non-cats can run low. We do it pretty regularly. Plus the cast iron jacket will soften the heat quite notably. The old BK has no side shielding and is seriously oversized, but you may not want to go the opposite direction unless the stove is mostly for nights and weekends.
 
May want to add some details. Chimney height from floor to cap is? Thimble height from floor to center? Do you have a stainless flex liner inside the terra cotta liner already? Isn't your current King connector pipe 8 inch?
 
In central NC almost at the SC border. Shelby NC . current set up is an eight-inch till the chimney then reduces to six. No stainless in any of this as it was put in in 1980. I am not afraid to leave the bypass open on the new stove all the time if needed
 
I had the "smoke smell" issue with my ashford. The factory sent a few shims for the hinge and a 7/8" door gasket. The factory paid my local dealer to place the shims and replace the gasket. No smell since two years ago. Same gasket.
Good to know that they might have figured it out!
 
In central NC almost at the SC border. Shelby NC . current set up is an eight-inch till the chimney then reduces to six. No stainless in any of this as it was put in in 1980. I am not afraid to leave the bypass open on the new stove all the time if needed
The Alderlea series stoves have no bypass. In your area you will be ok with the T4 or T5, though I lean toward the T5. You get chilly enough to need the heat. Are you expecting snow?

A modern stove is going to be a bit more particular about draft and wood dryness. Do you know the chimney tile ID?
 
I am at least 15' with two 90s in the run.

The 2 X 90's are going to reduce your overall effective length considerably. You may want to consult member @BKVP. The recommended Sirocco 20 is the model I run. I would be very hesitant to expect it to perform on your existing masonry chimney without modification. Just my opinion.
 
The lowest burn on my Ashford 30.1 is a 200F F flue stack. Below that, the stack gasses will start condensing water out and creosote-up the pipe, the cat being just in the active zone all the while. I honestly don't think any secondary air burner can do that and still burn cleanly. This extreme low burn is after a load char of 20 minutes or so and an hour of medium burn. No stove can go from cold iron to low burn but it takes an hour or more to get the stove real hot. Load timing, when you load, can even out heating a lot.

Single walled pipe might increase the minimum low fire as flue draft will be reduced due to excessive flue gas cooling. I believe this is why double walled pipe is specified, at least on my stove.

I heat 950 sq. ft.

A good cat is necessary for a real low burn. Also the bypass damper must not leak and the overall flue height must be able to support a very low burn. It must be insulated the whole way up or a very low burn will not be possible with any stove. Don't be afraid to crack a window. I believe the BK stoves have the lowest turn-down ratio of most all stoves. I see by the picture your stove is rather old. BK stoves have improved over the years.
 
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The lowest burn on my Ashford 30.1 is a 200F F flue stack. Below that, the stack gasses will start condensing water out and creosote-up the pipe, the cat being just in the active zone all the while. I honestly don't think any secondary air burner can do that and still burn cleanly. This extreme low burn is after a load char of 20 minutes or so and an hour of medium burn. No stove can go from cold iron to low burn but it takes an hour or more to get the stove real hot. Load timing, when you load, can even out heating a lot.

Single walled pipe might increase the minimum low fire as flue draft will be reduced due to excessive flue gas cooling. I believe this is why double walled pipe is specified, at least on my stove.

I heat 950 sq. ft.

A good cat is necessary for a real low burn. Also the bypass damper must not leak and the overall flue height must be able to support a very low burn. It must be insulated the whole way up or a very low burn will not be possible with any stove. Don't be afraid to crack a window. I believe the BK stoves have the lowest turn-down ratio of most all stoves. I see by the picture your stove is rather old. BK stoves have improved over the years.
Informative post!

I am pleasantly surprised you are heating 950sqft with an Ashford 30.1. That is impressive. That is a big stove...just looked at one today...it was a 30.2 though. Virtually the same stove

If I may ask you:
1. How well insulated is your home?
2. What are outside air temps currently?
3. What are inside air temps currently?
4. What are your stove top temps?
5. At what distance on your stove pipe did you take the stack temperature?
6. Was that a surface temperature taken by a IR gun, magnet thermometer, or a probe thermometer.

Pretty impressive turn down for that stove and home size. I ask you these questions because stove size and stove top (or side) temperature readings can give me an indication as to how your stove would compare in my own home when compared to my own current stove.

In comparison (not apples to apples) my coal stove (roughly same size as Ashford 30) performs now for 1350 sq. ft. :

OAT 35F
IAT 72F
My true stove temp is 250F, but my stove top is convective at 150ish*F
My stove pipe 12” up off stove is 125F and stove pipe temperature going into the thimble is 89F-99F depending how chimney is drafting usually .01-.02 .

The chimney is 8”x8” clay lined masonry just a few inches shy of 15ft from firebox floor to the top of the chimney, and only 10ft of actual chimney from top of thimble to the top of chimney.

Just today I went and bought two sections (4ft) of clay liner to add to it temporarily for testing purposes.

The reason I asked you these questions is because our stoves are very close in physical size and weight.

Many wood stove manufacturers have begun including approximate home heating size in square feet and while that is a good start in choosing a stove it only takes you so far and gives a new stove owner no idea of turn down on a stove. A large stove at 400F gives off much more heat than the same smaller stove at the same temperature.

However, for folks that have had experience with stoves and currently have a stove in their home it then becomes much easier to further dial in a stove choice than by simply glancing at the square feet listing in a brochure.

You can tell if a stove will be too big or too small, or if it will meet your needs by making a couple key comparisons. You can compare a new stove to your current stove at home by using three things. This can be done by comparing approximate physical size, approximate physical weight, and by determining how hot the stove top is at a low burn and the high burn rate. The most important of the two being the low burn. Of course, this only works if you have a current stove and know your current low burn temps when burning in mild weather.

In my opinion, in addition to square feet ratings, manufacturers could further assist current stove owners looking to purchase a new stove if they would include the stoves average (just get close) low burn temperature/rate. Most folks know how they run their stoves. Combine this information with approximate physical size and weight and this can let you know whether you need the same size stove or bigger or smaller.

Providing this low burn temperature with square feet ratings gives new prospective owners a better idea of turn down rate of the new stove.

Manufacturers, if you called them, may already be able to provide you with this information.

Using these comparisons with 3 stoves that I have and knowing how each burns has kept me from purchasing 3 stoves that were much too big for my home.

While looking at the Blaze King Ashford 30.2 today I used two of these comparisons to determine the stove is much too big for my home. The missing piece of information was your detailed post giving examples of your stack temp and your homes square feet, the latter being the key indicator to your stoves turn down rate which has lead me to ask you the above questions which I am sure will further help me pin point just how low this stove will burn. The way it sounds, it might be an option yet...even though it is big physically. At least I would have plenty of stove left during the coldest periods and rarely have to fire the stove hard.