2021-2022 BK everything thread

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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,955
Long Island NY
There's a whole series of secondary flame behavior that I've tried to "set". I can spend hours overheating myself, sitting on a little stool in front of the stove, changing the Tstat in minute quantities and then waiting for 15 minutes to get the steady associated flame show.

(Weekend) days can be enjoyed/wasted (depending on who you ask...) doing this. And then the next weekend the weather, wood type and dryness etc is different, so you can do it all over again :)
 
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ratsrepus

Minister of Fire
Jan 5, 2018
637
Howell, Mi
There's a whole series of secondary flame behavior that I've tried to "set". I can spend hours overheating myself, sitting on a little stool in front of the stove, changing the Tstat in minute quantities and then waiting for 15 minutes to get the steady associated flame show.

(Weekend) days can be enjoyed/wasted (depending on who you ask...) doing this. And then the next weekend the weather, wood type and dryness etc is different, so you can do it all over again :)
dont over think this, it not suppose to be complicated. set it and forget it
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,955
Long Island NY
I'm not overthinking, I'm observing all the different northern lights and plain old fire I can make in this box. And I know the box will keep it constant for a while (until the wood settles).

And yes, I will try to rationalize what I see - that's the defect in my brain... But I enjoy that.
 

ABMax24

Minister of Fire
Sep 18, 2019
1,216
Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada
Given that graphite (as the too idealized and more inert model for soot) combusts at about 750-800 F and the cat should be able to do that, I think this is a matter of particle size rather than chemistry. Too big particles don't have enough surface to finish the combustion reaction in the short time they spend in the cat channels.

While I do agree that in theory the soot should be burnt within the catalyst, in practice it has been shown to not be the case. I don't know if it's due to reduced oxygen levels, the catalyst not being of the right type for carbon, or as you said particle size or residence time, or something else.

Diesel engine manufacturers would see significant cost advantages if they could replace expensive exhaust filters with a better catalyst, but as of yet nothing has really been found. To my knowledge a 40% reduction is soot is the best that has been achieved by a DOC on a diesel engine, still a difference but not near enough for modern emission standards.
 
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sacountry

New Member
Aug 2, 2021
41
montana
There's a whole series of secondary flame behavior that I've tried to "set". I can spend hours overheating myself, sitting on a little stool in front of the stove, changing the Tstat in minute quantities and then waiting for 15 minutes to get the steady associated flame show.

(Weekend) days can be enjoyed/wasted (depending on who you ask...) doing this. And then the next weekend the weather, wood type and dryness etc is different, so you can do it all over again :)
You need to change your name to stovelover
 
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Poindexter

Minister of Fire
Jun 28, 2014
2,430
Fairbanks, Alaska
What's current heating oil price up there?
Dunno. Should find out in late November. 90 Octane Chevron jumped up to $4.059/ gallon as Ida was doing her thing and hasn't budged since. My best guess is number one heating oil is about $3.50/ gallon local right now .
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,326
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Dunno. Should find out in late November. 90 Octane Chevron jumped up to $4.059/ gallon as Ida was doing her thing and hasn't budged since. My best guess is number one heating oil is about $3.50/ gallon local right now .

Much cheaper than I thought it would be. Only a 5-10% higher than western Washington.
 

1990dtgl98

New Member
May 21, 2021
23
Pennsylvania
First initial burn in. Only used a few small pieces to see how the performance is. Ran it for 10 min on high with the damper open and on high. Once it got into the active zone I shut the bypass and kept it on medium.

Regardless....cat probe shot all the way at the top. Shut the thermostat to low and it steadily crept past the top of the active zone.

Still running on low 15 min later and here's where it's sitting.

What's going on?

20211017_113423.jpg
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,608
South Puget Sound, WA
New cat plus strong draft may be the issue. A stuck, or misaligned thermostat could be the issue too.
Do you hear the thermostat's air valve click shut at any point when turning it down? What does the fire look like with the air all the way down?
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,326
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
First initial burn in. Only used a few small pieces to see how the performance is. Ran it for 10 min on high with the damper open and on high. Once it got into the active zone I shut the bypass and kept it on medium.

Regardless....cat probe shot all the way at the top. Shut the thermostat to low and it steadily crept past the top of the active zone.

Still running on low 15 min later and here's where it's sitting.

What's going on?

View attachment 283433

A fresh cat will be hyperactive for a while but what’s the problem? Stove top thermometers are not useful on a cat stove, the blazing hot catalyst is right there under that surface meter so you’re just indirectly measuring catalyst temperature.
 

1990dtgl98

New Member
May 21, 2021
23
Pennsylvania
New cat plus strong draft may be the issue. A stuck, or misaligned thermostat could be the issue too.
Do you hear the thermostat's air valve click shut at any point when turning it down? What does the fire look like with the air all the way down?

Between the low and first dot I csn heat the thermostat door "slap" or shut.

On low this is my firebox...can't even really see embers.
2021-10-1712.20.561813184592529845909.jpg
 

1990dtgl98

New Member
May 21, 2021
23
Pennsylvania
A fresh cat will be hyperactive for a while but what’s the problem? Stove top thermometers are not useful on a cat stove, the blazing hot catalyst is right there under that surface meter so you’re just indirectly measuring catalyst temperature.
That stove temp was a leftover, not really used.i was more talking about the cat probe being well above the active zone for the last hour being a concern.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,608
South Puget Sound, WA
Yes, I understand. I don't pay too much attention to stove top temps and don't have a lot of trust in the accuracy of the simple thermometers. IIRC, this insert has a 26' liner, is that correct? That is why I mentioned strong draft. A new catalyst can be hyperactive for the first few burns. If so, it should settle down in the next few burns.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,955
Long Island NY
The fact that on low you don't even see embers means your air can be closed off properly. You'll see when you have bigger fires whether the Tstat works - I have no reason to think it does not, given your observations. Everything seems normal so far.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,326
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
That stove temp was a leftover, not really used.i was more talking about the cat probe being well above the active zone for the last hour being a concern.

The catalyst temperature varies based on how much smoke it’s eating. Not based on the thermostat setting. Most of the time I run on very low thermostat settings and that cat meter stays way up near the top of the scale. The only time you really need to consider the reading on that cat meter is when it crosses the active line. Then you can ignore it since the information is worthless.
 
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1990dtgl98

New Member
May 21, 2021
23
Pennsylvania
Yes, chimney is either 24 or 26' liner (forget specifically) with 30* bend. I did have a decent 15mph wind. If it is drafting too strong that might be a problem as we do average a pretty good wind all winter being sandwiched in between 2 large ridges and with open fields around me.

That makes me feel a bit better. Heat output was good, not great. I think that's because I had it on low or the first dot the entire time due to the cat being pegged.

That was on 4 smaller splits (maybe 20lbs of wood) got me from 11am and was still going when I went to bed at 10. Not sure when it actually died. Outside temp was 61, inside was 77.

It'll be interested to see if I can run it hotter constantly and how it performs when it gets into the teens.
 

kennyp2339

Minister of Fire
Feb 16, 2014
6,106
07462
Order a damper for the double wall stove pipe, with that run you will need it.
With your last burn it sounds like you were strictly running off the cat for any heat production, I do that to with my princess during the shoulder seasons, still a bit warm here for that though.
I also installed a damper a few years back for my setup - 18ft but my house is on top of a hill taking all the wind off a larger swamp area with a normal winter wind direction from the NW, I tested my draft, the manual calls for a .05" wc while running on high, I was getting .18"wc which is 3 times as much, installed the damper and running around .07"wc and stove performance improved / along with heat output (stove heat was literally being sucked out the stove)
 

BKVP

Minister of Fire
There is nothing wrong!
Yes, chimney is either 24 or 26' liner (forget specifically) with 30* bend. I did have a decent 15mph wind. If it is drafting too strong that might be a problem as we do average a pretty good wind all winter being sandwiched in between 2 large ridges and with open fields around me.

That makes me feel a bit better. Heat output was good, not great. I think that's because I had it on low or the first dot the entire time due to the cat being pegged.

That was on 4 smaller splits (maybe 20lbs of wood) got me from 11am and was still going when I went to bed at 10. Not sure when it actually died. Outside temp was 61, inside was 77.

It'll be interested to see if I can run it hotter constantly and how it performs when it gets into the teens.
Don't alter anything for now, please. Cats often produce higher temps on lower burn rates due to residence time.

When we as an industry certify wood and pellet stoves, we are required to "condition" the stove and it's elements of clean combustion.

This is required, regardless of technology. For cats we know it takes nearly a month or more of continous buring before they settle-in to a sweet spot for performance.

Burn it just as you did and even hotter. Stove temps and combustor temps are not the same.

BKVP
 
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Ohio123

New Member
Dec 12, 2020
1
Ohio
Hi everyone long time reader, 1st time poster. I am finally ready to purchase my first fireplace insert. My wife likes a modern flush look so nothing to far out into the hearth. My options are BK sirocco, PE Neo 2.5, and regency CI2700. I am leaning toward a BK Sirocco 25 due the the government tax credit it the cheaper of the options. My main concern now is having a quiet blower/fan another wife request. I went to couple dealers to listen to them in action. Regency was very whisper quiet on low. PE dealer didn’t have his plugged in but Begreen has said it was very quiet. Can anyone that has the BK sirocco or Ashford 25 insert tell me anything about the blower on low?
 

Nealm66

Minister of Fire
Sep 25, 2020
1,086
Western Washington
One thing I have found is that for the first day and maybe 2, my house absorbs the heat making it seem like the stove may not be putting out a lot of heat but man, once the bones of the house are warmed, the low setting is plenty! Some times more than enough. It can take a day and even longer for my house to loose the stored heat. Probably the coolest thing about the king stoves is there isn’t the roller coaster heat like we grow used to. It’s a steady output. It will take a while for the cat to settle in. I bought mine last year and it was the display model they had been burning so it wasn’t too bad. I run mine on low all the time and only open it up for the refuel.
 

John Galt

Burning Hunk
Oct 22, 2019
116
W Montana
I feel like a first time parent calling the doctor when the kid sneezes...
I have a new install, if it was a typical 15' pipe I wouldn't think anything of what's happening.
I put the princess in the basement with a 32' straight shot Excel chimney run - 12" pipe off the stove, a damper, telescoping pipe to the ceiling, and then lots of chimney. The first few small fires were excellent, no smoke, thermostat working, able to control everything. When I fully loaded the box things changed. The cat thermometer pegged out, is that the new hyper active cat syndrome? Does that happen on older cats? I am also getting smoke out of the cap so it's not burning everything, is that normal?
Wood is very dry, thermostat is at 4 o'clockish, I've closed the damper partially and also all the way (Excel damper so it doesnt block off completely) I do not have a manometer yet to measure draft. Any thoughts or suggestions on the setup or results? I just don't want to break something or worry needlessly.
Thanks
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,955
Long Island NY
I feel like a first time parent calling the doctor when the kid sneezes...
I have a new install, if it was a typical 15' pipe I wouldn't think anything of what's happening.
I put the princess in the basement with a 32' straight shot Excel chimney run - 12" pipe off the stove, a damper, telescoping pipe to the ceiling, and then lots of chimney. The first few small fires were excellent, no smoke, thermostat working, able to control everything. When I fully loaded the box things changed. The cat thermometer pegged out, is that the new hyper active cat syndrome? Does that happen on older cats? I am also getting smoke out of the cap so it's not burning everything, is that normal?
Wood is very dry, thermostat is at 4 o'clockish, I've closed the damper partially and also all the way (Excel damper so it doesnt block off completely) I do not have a manometer yet to measure draft. Any thoughts or suggestions on the setup or results? I just don't want to break something or worry needlessly.
Thanks
if this is smoke (rather than water vapor, now that more vapor comes out because more wood is burned, AND now that it may be colder, so you see it?), then this smells like (..) too much draft. Gases going too fast thru the cat won't have time to be fully combusted. Can you close the damper more? Or add a second damper.
 
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BKVP

Minister of Fire
Hi everyone long time reader, 1st time poster. I am finally ready to purchase my first fireplace insert. My wife likes a modern flush look so nothing to far out into the hearth. My options are BK sirocco, PE Neo 2.5, and regency CI2700. I am leaning toward a BK Sirocco 25 due the the government tax credit it the cheaper of the options. My main concern now is having a quiet blower/fan another wife request. I went to couple dealers to listen to them in action. Regency was very whisper quiet on low. PE dealer didn’t have his plugged in but Begreen has said it was very quiet. Can anyone that has the BK sirocco or Ashford 25 insert tell me anything about the blower on low?
I can assure you the fans (2) are much quieter on the SC25/AF25 and BX24 as they are dual squirrel cage fans. The blowers on the freestanding models and PI29 use axial fans. The axial fans have prop like blades and tend to be louder, especially on high.
 
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John Galt

Burning Hunk
Oct 22, 2019
116
W Montana
if this is smoke (rather than water vapor, now that more vapor comes out because more wood is burned, AND now that it may be colder, so you see it?), then this smells like (..) too much draft. Gases going too fast thru the cat won't have time to be fully combusted. Can you close the damper more? Or add a second damper.
Definitely smoke. Too much draft was my thought, but I haven't purchased a manometer yet. The current damper is closed all of the way but the Excel damper's internal plate has cut outs so it doesn't block 100% of the air. I can add another damper at the support box if it's needed.