2021-2022 BK everything thread

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kennyp2339

Minister of Fire
Feb 16, 2014
6,102
07462
I'd think any air entering the flue at the collar or above decreases the pull on your stove...?

I mean the pull of your chimney is partially satisfied by air leaking in rather than by air being pulled through your stove...
Yea, I was just thinking that to, like how a baro damper acts
 
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Poindexter

Minister of Fire
Jun 28, 2014
2,429
Fairbanks, Alaska
The course work for EPA level 9 Visual Emmissions Evaluation (VEE) is typically available online for free. If you want to take the test to become and EPA certified VEE level 9 (daylight) inspector you got to pay the money, pass the written and go take the practical test.

I am not going to link you to one or another provider so 'we' can spread our web traffic out over as many servers as possible. If you take the test there will be many many samples in the 20-40% opacity range, but few in the under 20% opacity or greater than 40% opacity coming out of the calibrated certified chimney.

If you own a BK and are buring fuel at or under 20% MC, make sure you are dialed in on the <20% opacity, because that is what you should see coming out of your stack. You might spend a little time on the +/- 50% range for startup if you happen to live in an EPA designated non-attainment area.
 

Poindexter

Minister of Fire
Jun 28, 2014
2,429
Fairbanks, Alaska
Oh and it's almost never steam with an active cat.
I don't fully agree with this. There is plenty of hydrogen attached to the hydrocarbon of cellulose. When burnt, some "H2O" is produced during complete combustion, at +/- 600 degrees F. Whether that steam condenses inside the stack, or over the roof, or two blocks away is going to depend on a number of factors, outdoor ambient temperature being primary.
 

Poindexter

Minister of Fire
Jun 28, 2014
2,429
Fairbanks, Alaska
is evident by the detached plume where there is a clear gap between the chimney cap and the appearance of a white plume.
Brilliant. If you have done the EPA VEE level 9 coursework, you know the gap between the chimney top and the beginning of the steam plume is the IDEAL place to evaluate the opacity of the smoke plume.

If you have zero opacity between the chimney top and the beginning of the steam in your detached plume, the smoke opacity is zero.

Well said good sir. Thank you.
 
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Poindexter

Minister of Fire
Jun 28, 2014
2,429
Fairbanks, Alaska
My bk will always smoke immediately after closing the bypass (cat probe just in active zone) for about 20min.

During the burn cycle, sometimes it will smoke other times it will not. Some days it will go through the whole burn without any visible smoke/steam. Sometimes it will start smoking 8h into the burn then stop after 30min or so. I stopped paying attention.
On mine there is a white tick mark on the dial between the active/inactive break and the red needle as pictured. I am sure there is a bit of variability with individual installs. What I see on mine with a healthy (<25 cords) combustor is my plume opacity is well under 20% when the red needle is above the white tick mark into the active zone.

I don't have the instrumentation to determine, and have not been able to find out with internet research, is it better to stay in bypass to get to the tick mark, or engage at the break and get to the tick mark with the combustor active? Time seems to be about the same either way. My data is confounded from further resolution by having to step into my winter boots with no socks and run out into the snow from one or the other exterior door based on the current position of the moon relative to the chimney and the door I choose.

I am reminded I need to go testify to my borough assembly, again, to advocate for allowing regulated burners like me 30 rather than a mere 20 minutes, to get through start up opacity grace. Local I am regulated to 20 minutes at 50% plume opacity on cold starts. With fuel at 14% MC I can do it 20 minutes, but my flue gas temps often reach 1200 degrees F. With fuel at 20% MC and limiting my flue gas temps to 1000 degrees F, I need 30 minutes. I am willing to bet folding money I have instrumented more cold starts in my stove than every delegate on the borough assembly combined.

M2c anyway. Gotta tick mark on your dial? Winter boots by the door you can slip on quickly?

20211021_211726[1].jpg
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,922
Long Island NY
I don't fully agree with this. There is plenty of hydrogen attached to the hydrocarbon of cellulose. When burnt, some "H2O" is produced during complete combustion, at +/- 600 degrees F. Whether that steam condenses inside the stack, or over the roof, or two blocks away is going to depend on a number of factors, outdoor ambient temperature being primary.
In fact, I once did the calculation (back of the envelope; assuming all hydrogen gets to be water, assuming the wood is purely cellulose (if I remember correctly) etc). Posted it here.

Bottomline, a boatload of water is going up all our flues regardless of how dry your wood is. The question is whether you'll see it coming out of the stack. Flue gas temps and outside dewpoint will determine that.
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,304
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
In fact, I once did the calculation (back of the envelope; assuming all hydrogen gets to be water, assuming the wood is purely cellulose (if I remember correctly) etc). Posted it here.

Bottomline, a boatload of water is going up all our flues regardless of how dry your wood is. The question is whether you'll see it coming out of the stack. Flue gas temps and outside dewpoint will determine that.

And like car exhaust, gas or diesel, in some climates you see it very frequently and some never. The water is still there.

And remember, I was responding to somebody in California where you don’t see as much steamy car exhaust as you do in NY or AK.
 
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John Galt

Burning Hunk
Oct 22, 2019
116
W Montana
I have the same damper and just modified mine, took a couple stainless bolts and fender washers and blocked the ICC in the damper. There are still times I wish it was a little more restrictive but this works fine 95% of the time. I've got 36 vertical feet in my flue setup on an easy breathing SBI box, and this worked wonders.

View attachment 283540 View attachment 283541
Is there a reason that stainless steel was used? Anyone know if zinc would corrode inside the flue?
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,922
Long Island NY
Is there a reason that stainless steel was used? Anyone know if zinc would corrode inside the flue?
zinc would evaporate. While the (toxic) vapors will go up the flue, the point is that the zinc would soon "not be there anymore"...
 

ABMax24

Minister of Fire
Sep 18, 2019
1,199
Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada
Is there a reason that stainless steel was used? Anyone know if zinc would corrode inside the flue?

Stainless is significantly more corrosion resistant at high temperatures like those seen in a flue.

I'm sure steel would work fine, for a while, but I bought those at Home Depot and they had both on hand, it was only a few cents more for stainless.
 
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John Galt

Burning Hunk
Oct 22, 2019
116
W Montana
Thanks. Our stores don't have anything small in stock, shipping is two weeks out, and I have plenty of zinc. I'll wait and put the stainless in and do it once. I wasn't thinking about how corrosive the exhaust is. Of course the bolts and nuts can be sent directly to me but I have to drive an hour to get the fender washers.:p
 

Diabel

Minister of Fire
Jan 11, 2008
3,374
Ottawa, ON
On mine there is a white tick mark on the dial between the active/inactive break and the red needle as pictured. I am sure there is a bit of variability with individual installs. What I see on mine with a healthy (<25 cords) combustor is my plume opacity is well under 20% when the red needle is above the white tick mark into the active zone.

I don't have the instrumentation to determine, and have not been able to find out with internet research, is it better to stay in bypass to get to the tick mark, or engage at the break and get to the tick mark with the combustor active? Time seems to be about the same either way. My data is confounded from further resolution by having to step into my winter boots with no socks and run out into the snow from one or the other exterior door based on the current position of the moon relative to the chimney and the door I choose.

I am reminded I need to go testify to my borough assembly, again, to advocate for allowing regulated burners like me 30 rather than a mere 20 minutes, to get through start up opacity grace. Local I am regulated to 20 minutes at 50% plume opacity on cold starts. With fuel at 14% MC I can do it 20 minutes, but my flue gas temps often reach 1200 degrees F. With fuel at 20% MC and limiting my flue gas temps to 1000 degrees F, I need 30 minutes. I am willing to bet folding money I have instrumented more cold starts in my stove than every delegate on the borough assembly combined.

M2c anyway. Gotta tick mark on your dial? Winter boots by the door you can slip on quickly?

View attachment 283747
Excellent write up. Nice point on the dial . Will explore for sure
 
Dec 6, 2016
68
Michigan
Thanks for the suggestion to order a spare combustor from Midwesthearth.com. My manual lists the combustor supplied with the stove as a 115-0556 or a 115-0336-A-M. My stove is a KE40. I can't find a combustor on the Midwesthearth site that specifically lists a KE40 or the combuster numbers from the manual.

From the Midwesthearth site:

Catalytic Combustor Blaze King Classic, Parlor, Ultra (5" x 10.6" x 2")​

Compatible Stove Models:
• King Classic KE1107BK
• King Parlor KE1107LBK
• King Ultra KE1107UBK, KEJ1100, KEJ1101, KEJ1102, KEI1300

MH-64C-2_1024x1024@2x.jpg

Would this be the correct combustor for a KE40?
 

kennyp2339

Minister of Fire
Feb 16, 2014
6,102
07462
@Bill in the U.P. this is the one, your existing cat should last you at least another 2 seasons if you BK was brand new last year
 
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Dec 6, 2016
68
Michigan
@Bill in the U.P. this is the one, your existing cat should last you at least another 2 seasons if you BK was brand new last year
Awesome, thank you. It will be good to know I have one when the times comes.
 

Diabel

Minister of Fire
Jan 11, 2008
3,374
Ottawa, ON
I always thought that I was well within parameters regarding the pipe length for my Princess. This morning it dawned on my (maybe not so much)!
Sat morning calculation brainer for the forum math nurds:

From the cap:
4 x 36” sections down to a 30 elbow to another 36” section to offseting 30 elbow. This connects to tee then right to a thimble (i would say 2.5’ horizontal. In the house from thimble right to two 45s down 4’ to stovetop.

What is my actual pipe length accounting for the elbows?
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,922
Long Island NY
I always thought that I was well within parameters regarding the pipe length for my Princess. This morning it dawned on my (maybe not so much)!
Sat morning calculation brainer for the forum math nurds:

From the cap:
4 x 36” sections down to a 30 elbow to another 36” section to offseting 30 elbow. This connects to tee then right to a thimble (i would say 2.5’ horizontal. In the house from thimble right to two 45s down 4’ to stovetop.

What is my actual pipe length accounting for the elbows?

Lol.
1. If the stove performs well, your chimney is good :) (i.e. don't fix something that produces as it is meant to produce).

2. So you have 19' in straight sections, 2.5' horizontal, and 2 30 deg and 2 45 deg elbows.
The 2.5' horizontal add 5' to the required 15', making 20'.
The 2 45s add 2' to the required length, making 22'.
The 2 30s add 1' to the required length, making 23'.

So, if you are at sea level, I think the recommended length is 23'. (I also note that the manual notes "no more than 1 offset allowed (2 elbows allowed)", but leaving that aside (because 30 deg elbows are not all that impactful), the manual suggests you are 4' short.

But again, if it works well, your draft may be enough - for whatever particular reason your location has. It is not the length per se, but the draft (that is facilitated by this length) that matters. Length is easier to measure, though, and that's why that is mentioned in the manual, I believe.
 
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Dec 6, 2016
68
Michigan
New cat ordered today. Like a full woodyard it will be comforting to have it before its needed. : )
 
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Diabel

Minister of Fire
Jan 11, 2008
3,374
Ottawa, ON
Pictures are deceiving but my cat has never been bright orange. Dull orange yes.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,922
Long Island NY
Mine was last (its first) year.
 

BKVP

Minister of Fire
I know you have mentioned this before, but how old is that cat
2rd Season on my KE40! You my recall my 1102 cat was 10 years old when I replaced it. I donated that stove and got an 1107. Ran that 10 years. Put a V.3 cat in that at 5 years. Remember Ashful?, he was running a V.3 in one of his 2 Ashfords and providing us Intel. Donated my 1107 to a local family and put a KE40 in late 2019....only Webby3660 changes stoves more frequently.
 

charger4406

Feeling the Heat
Dec 25, 2011
259
southern Quebec
I just got a 2019 KEJ1107 off of a guy who's family had it at their cottage,
almost unused, could not get it to run very well it seems, as it was hooked
to 12 feet of horizontal run of almost level stove pipe, got it for 1300.

Screenshot 2021-10-25 at 06-39-39 Poêle à bois wood burning stove Blaze King modèle King KE...png Screenshot 2021-10-25 at 06-38-03 Poêle à bois wood burning stove Blaze King modèle King KE...png
 
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charger4406

Feeling the Heat
Dec 25, 2011
259
southern Quebec
the cat was only engaged once it seems
and was run with the bypass open the rest of the time,
they never got the stove to run very warm,
the stove pipe was 50% clogged with creo.