2021-2022 BK everything thread

[BKVP]

That's got me thinking... if substrate flattening is the thing that eventually kills almost all (steel) cats- 1) A completely "dead" cat is still able to function at whatever the ratio is of surface area between a new one and a flat one, and 2) We could just start with a flat substrate if we had enough surface area to begin with. (Though it seems like the cat might be bigger than the stove in that case, and imagine taking THAT apart to clean it...)

So 3) Isn't there a higher-temp substrate out there? Maybe a rough ceramic surface would have sufficient surface area that we could just double the size of the cat and not suffer flattening?

Somebody write me a research grant!

The substrate is not the issue. The washcoat is the issue. The washcoat bonds the palladium and platinum to the substrate. Every industry uses washcoats and believe it or not, 1600F of repeated exposure is what causes the flattening out. It doesn't happen immediately but over several exposures.

As to the purpose, it isn't just surface area, which is of course key, it also creates turbulence, although minor. The cat manufacturers are very eager to find washcoats that would have higher thresholds temps and have been so for decades. You find one (materials & application process) you can probably sell them your idea.

 

[BKVP]

As a chemist, I can confirm. This is not only a problem with our stove cats, but much more so in large industrial chemical applications. Haber-Bosch-Process comes to mind here, but also a plethora of organic catalytic reactions.

I'd say the active metal in our cats is mostly palladium, but rhodium/platinum may be used as well (but probably more expensive). Don't nail me on that one, though.

Wood smoke processes use palladium and platinum. Automotive throw in rhodium....you're spot on Tron!

 

[elmo_4_vt]

Another nubie question for the group -

On the thermostat, I can rotate it counter-clockwise from 5-o'clock at it's highest setting to around 7-o'clock at it's lowest setting. So far with 2 smaller fires and 1 normal one going right now, I've been keeping it at the 4-o'clock position (pictured) for a normal burn with the combustor thermometer hovering between the 12 and 2-o'clock position. Is the 7 to 5 o'clock movement the normal range even though it seems like 1 to 5 is the full range of the graphic? Is there a combustor temp location I should be shooting for? Top deck temp?

I was trying to use the chimney temp, but I used double wall pipe and don't know how the outside temp reflects the inside.

Thanks for the help with the stupid questions.

Don

PS - Stove is a Chinook 30 w/ 14' of double wall stove pipe and 10' of Class A double wall chimney. No bends.

 

[BKVP]

Another nubie question for the group -

On the thermostat, I can rotate it counter-clockwise from 5-o'clock at it's highest setting to around 7-o'clock at it's lowest setting. So far with 2 smaller fires and 1 normal one going right now, I've been keeping it at the 4-o'clock position (pictured) for a normal burn with the combustor thermometer hovering between the 12 and 2-o'clock position. Is the 7 to 5 o'clock movement the normal range even though it seems like 1 to 5 is the full range of the graphic? Is there a combustor temp location I should be shooting for? Top deck temp?

I was trying to use the chimney temp, but I used double wall pipe and don't know how the outside temp reflects the inside.

Thanks for the help with the stupid questions.

View attachment 287437

Don

PS - Stove is a Chinook 30 w/ 14' of double wall stove pipe and 10' of Class A double wall chimney. No bends.

So you can simply turn it clockwise until it stops, which is 5 o'clock., Loosen the set screw it the knob (7/64" allen wrench) and rotate slightly clockwise to 6 o'clock. Tighten the set screw. Do not turn it counterclockwise while fastener is loose.

The effective range, depending upon your draft and fuel MC content will be 2 o'clock to 6 o'clock.

Looks good!

BKVP

 

[Nealm66]

Another nubie question for the group -

On the thermostat, I can rotate it counter-clockwise from 5-o'clock at it's highest setting to around 7-o'clock at it's lowest setting. So far with 2 smaller fires and 1 normal one going right now, I've been keeping it at the 4-o'clock position (pictured) for a normal burn with the combustor thermometer hovering between the 12 and 2-o'clock position. Is the 7 to 5 o'clock movement the normal range even though it seems like 1 to 5 is the full range of the graphic? Is there a combustor temp location I should be shooting for? Top deck temp?

I was trying to use the chimney temp, but I used double wall pipe and don't know how the outside temp reflects the inside.

Thanks for the help with the stupid questions.

View attachment 287437

Don

PS - Stove is a Chinook 30 w/ 14' of double wall stove pipe and 10' of Class A double wall chimney. No bends.

I pick the spot that keeps my house around 72 most of the time. It’s a little ( lot) tougher during the milder weather. Also, there’s a choke spot that will give the 20-24 hour burn that takes a little practice and really depends on your wood and setup. Helps a little bit during the milder weather but the constant low heat can still open up some windows. Best to look at the weather for the next day before reloading.

 

[Highbeam]

Another nubie question for the group -

On the thermostat, I can rotate it counter-clockwise from 5-o'clock at it's highest setting to around 7-o'clock at it's lowest setting. So far with 2 smaller fires and 1 normal one going right now, I've been keeping it at the 4-o'clock position (pictured) for a normal burn with the combustor thermometer hovering between the 12 and 2-o'clock position. Is the 7 to 5 o'clock movement the normal range even though it seems like 1 to 5 is the full range of the graphic? Is there a combustor temp location I should be shooting for? Top deck temp?

I was trying to use the chimney temp, but I used double wall pipe and don't know how the outside temp reflects the inside.

Thanks for the help with the stupid questions.

View attachment 287437

Don

PS - Stove is a Chinook 30 w/ 14' of double wall stove pipe and 10' of Class A double wall chimney. No bends.

It is normal, though not useful, to be able to turn the thermostat knob CCW way way past the effective range of 2-6 o’clock. Almost full circle.

As long as you’re above the active line, the cat meter reading is not important. Adjust the thermostat to provide the desired stove output.

 

[Highbeam]

So you can simply turn it clockwise until it stops, which is 5 o'clock., Loosen the set screw it the knob (7/64" allen wrench) and rotate slightly clockwise to 6 o'clock. Tighten the set screw. Do not turn it counterclockwise while fastener is loose.

The effective range, depending upon your draft and fuel MC content will be 2 o'clock to 6 o'clock.

Looks good!

BKVP

I thought it was a 5/64” Allen. 0.078125”?

 

[Tron]

I thought it was a 5/64” Allen. 0.078125”?

And people wonder why I go crazy with imperial tool sizes. 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, ok, but 5/64? Or 7/64? Really? Who thought of that?
Life is so much easier when metric measurements are used...

(Wouldn't be surprised if there were sizes like 13/64 or 37/64...)

PS: wouldn't it be easier to at least go decimal and use mils? Like a 78 mil hex key?

 

[Highbeam]

And people wonder why I go crazy with imperial tool sizes. 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, ok, but 5/64? Or 7/64? Really? Who thought of that?
Life is so much easier when metric measurements are used...

(Wouldn't be surprised if there were sizes like 13/64 or 37/64...)

PS: wouldn't it be easier to at least go decimal and use mils? Like a 78 mil hex key?

It’s not like they write the sizes on these tiny wrenches. I had to get my calipers out and start measuring selections from my pile of super small Allen wrenches until I found the 5/64” one which slipped right into the set screw. Bkvp is obviously an expert on this though so 7/64” maybe fits too?

Turns out that 5/64” is almost exactly 2mm.

 

[Tron]

Turns out that 5/64” is almost exactly 2mm.

1.984375mm, close enough ;-)
I don't know if 7/64 exists, but that wouldn't correspond to anything metric.

(BTW, you'd be surprised how many imperial tool sizes can be covered with metric tools if you're a tiny bit brave, especially with nuts. Easier with the bigger sizes, though)

 

[Poindexter]

If memory serves one of the Duesenberg brothers could eyeball a dimension to the nearest 1/64, though I didn't see it in this article:

Duesenberg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BKVP]

If memory serves one of the Duesenberg brothers could eyeball a dimension to the nearest 1/64, though I didn't see it in this article:

Duesenberg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes but I was off 2/64ths!

 

[stoveliker]

It's warm here (50+ for the next few days), so I left the stove to go out. Good opportunity to clean out some ashes.

Checking the cat from the front, I noticed minor fly ash (4-5 channels blocked), so I brushed. However, after I took the flame shield off, I noticed it was quite bent. Sagging down when mounted.

The result is that flames more easily reach the cat from the now larger slit/gap at the bottom.

Of course I load the stove to the gills, meaning there's wood burning right there during the charring phase. I presume that's when it happens. I've seen this shield glowing during these times.


Is this an issue? Do you see this too? Should I do things differently?

 

[MissMac]

It's warm here (50+ for the next few days), so I left the stove to go out. Good opportunity to clean out some ashes.

Checking the cat from the front, I noticed minor fly ash (4-5 channels blocked), so I brushed. However, after I took the flame shield off, I noticed it was quite bent. Sagging down when mounted.

The result is that flames more easily reach the cat from the now larger slit/gap at the bottom.

Of course I load the stove to the gills, meaning there's wood burning right there during the charring phase. I presume that's when it happens. I've seen this shield glowing during these times.


Is this an issue? Do you see this too? Should I do things differently?

View attachment 287483

my flame shield has a little bow in it too

 

[Diabel]

I often watch the flames penetrate that shield. That cannot be good for the cat.

 

[MissMac]

I often watch the flames penetrate that shield. That cannot be good for the cat.

me too

 

[bikedennis]

Did a reload and forgot to close the bypass for about 10 minutes. Since this is a new stove (Sirocco) I worry. Of course a raging fire. Does this cause damage to the catalyst?

 

[Highbeam]

Did a reload and forgot to close the bypass for about 10 minutes. Since this is a new stove (Sirocco) I worry. Of course a raging fire. Does this cause damage to the catalyst?

No damage to catalyst, however, it can damage the bypass gasket retainers which are the thin non replaceable brackets around the bypass opening that hold the gasket. If those retainers haven’t melted away then you’re fine. You can check them when cool by feel or visually. If suspect you can even dollar bill test the bypass gasket seal.

 

[BKVP]

It's warm here (50+ for the next few days), so I left the stove to go out. Good opportunity to clean out some ashes.

Checking the cat from the front, I noticed minor fly ash (4-5 channels blocked), so I brushed. However, after I took the flame shield off, I noticed it was quite bent. Sagging down when mounted.

The result is that flames more easily reach the cat from the now larger slit/gap at the bottom.

Of course I load the stove to the gills, meaning there's wood burning right there during the charring phase. I presume that's when it happens. I've seen this shield glowing during these times.


Is this an issue? Do you see this too? Should I do things differently?

View attachment 287483

That is not an issue. They are cut on our laser and cutting holes. They are seldom flat new. You can bend if slightly as it takes little effort.

 

[BKVP]

No damage to catalyst, however, it can damage the bypass gasket retainers which are the thin non replaceable brackets around the bypass opening that hold the gasket. If those retainers haven’t melted away then you’re fine. You can check them when cool by feel or visually. If suspect you can even dollar bill test the bypass gasket seal.

They are replaceable. The new design is a one piece design, in some models bolted in and other stitch welded.

 

[stoveliker]

That is not an issue. They are cut on our laser and cutting holes. They are seldom flat new. You can bend if slightly as it takes little effort.

Ok, thank you!

 

[Highbeam]

They are replaceable. The new design is a one piece design, in some models bolted in and other stitch welded.

Bolts would be awesome. Good move! Happy to see continued improvement of the brand.

The guy asking the question had a sirroco. Are those replaceable or are they welded on? I’m sorry but welded in is not what I would consider replaceable. No more so than saying the whole stove is replaceable.

 

[crstrode]

So you can simply turn it clockwise until it stops, which is 5 o'clock., Loosen the set screw it the knob (7/64" allen wrench) and rotate slightly clockwise to 6 o'clock. Tighten the set screw. Do not turn it counterclockwise while fastener is loose.

The effective range, depending upon your draft and fuel MC content will be 2 o'clock to 6 o'clock.

Looks good!

BKVP

Are all of the BK thermostats the same?
Do they have the same range of motion from full open to least open? (ie 120 degrees rotation)

 

[BKVP]

Are all of the BK thermostats the same?
Do they have the same range of motion from full open to least open? (ie 120 degrees rotation)

Range of motion and range of active use is dependent upon draft and fuel mc.

The springs in the thermostats are NOT the same. 30.2's all have same, all 20.2's the same etc, but not between model lines.

 

[crstrode]

Range of motion and range of active use is dependent upon draft and fuel mc.

The springs in the thermostats are NOT the same. 30.2's all have same, all 20.2's the same etc, but not between model lines.

@BKVP

I am referring to physical range of motion of the mechanical components. I can imagine that these parts and pieces are assembled and adjusted the same every time at the BK assembly line. I asked the question so as to better understand what others are experiencing as they describe thermostat adjustments on their BKs.

I recognize that with the insert burning along nicely, the max CCW ("closed" position) is beyond the point where the fire will stay lit.

When cold, the thermostat knob on my Sirocco Insert (SC25) exhibits a physical stop at the full open position (6 o'clock). Throttling down, it moves freely for about 120 degrees to the 2 o'clock position (a little past the narrow end of the white swoosh) where it meets high resistance. This "closed" setting is a little past the narrow end of the white swoosh (3 o'clock).

When hot, I notice no change in the physical stop at full open, and only a marginal change at the closed position.

For the wood that I have been using, adjusting the knob to about the narrow end of the swoosh gives me the longest burn times. Of course every load is a bit different, as every day's temperature, humidity, wind, etc, is different as well.

Just to reduce the chance of being misunderstood, my BK Sirocco insert is working perfectly and performs far better than I could have ever hoped for