I have an encore. Because I had to buy some of this wood I haven't split it all myself. Usually I get 8-9 hours packing the box. I just tetris it together until it's full to the griddle.
2022/23 VC Owner thread
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Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
@Woodsplitter67 can you post a pic of your catalyst probe in the burn chamber? (If you get a cold enough stove this season). I assume most people are running the Auber 6” inconel probe, about 3” extended into the flow path?
I tried the Auber recommended calibration test - got 34 degrees in a cup of ice water and 203 in a pot of boiling water - Auber support said it was likely because I didn’t have the probe fully 6” submerged. I’ll repeat it again after this season - alcove install. Not exactly easily accessible.
With the slight errors at 5ish inches submerged in the water, I don’t know how accurate any of our measurements are with 3” in the air flow, but as long as we’re all measuring the same, the collective experience should be valid.
Awesome post(s). Thanks!
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=11#q5
I tried the Auber recommended calibration test - got 34 degrees in a cup of ice water and 203 in a pot of boiling water - Auber support said it was likely because I didn’t have the probe fully 6” submerged. I’ll repeat it again after this season - alcove install. Not exactly easily accessible.
With the slight errors at 5ish inches submerged in the water, I don’t know how accurate any of our measurements are with 3” in the air flow, but as long as we’re all measuring the same, the collective experience should be valid.
Awesome post(s). Thanks!
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=11#q5
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Well just when you think it's going to behave. Hot reload cat in the high 900's put a full load in box and cut air to 1/2. Cat went to 1450 and settled there for an hour. Went in the other room for and hour or so and when I checked cat was at 1650 STT 550. Cut air back to about 10% open and cat dropped into the mid 1300's. This cat really likes to run up in the 1600's.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
ok so what should you do next time???
What is your stove telling you..
Why are you loading the stove this way.. what was the purpose..
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I'm going to guess.... set air to 10% initially instead of 50%?
Data from last nights burn.... it was uneventful but I am not sure it qualifies as a hot reload. At the end of the previous load I had a lot of coals, so I opened up the air 100% and let them burn down. When cat reached 600 I reloaded, 3/4 load. Immediately engaged the cat. As you can see the cat temp dropped for 40 min until it took off. During this time there was a lot of flames in the box.
Once the cat lit off it went up very quickly, I chickened out and cut the air way down, too much I think.
Question for @Woodsplitter67 : When you do a hot reload, do you see cat temps drop initially or does it pop right back up to where it was?
and.... you may not be "the expert" but if you are getting good burns you know something we don't. Thanks for sharing.
No blaze king under my tree this morning... maybe he was delayed. Or maybe he was scared to come down the chimney due to runaway cat temps....
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
During a reload my cat temp will drop some as.. the bypass is open and no air is going to the cat.. I will load.. Immediately close the bypass.. cat will pop back up with the air wide open, I will adjust from there.. Draft is the key to reload ( as well.as coal bed ).. if your draft is weak.. the cat will be slow, if the draft is moderate to good it will pop up to a K and run as described, if draft is super high.. it will take off
Why I loaded the stove this way was I wanted to go to bed in 2 hours. What I need to do is move the TV into the room with the stove as it can't be trusted.
I'm still wanting to learn more about the secondary air control as it reopens at about 1550 and every time it's run up and reopened the temps at the cat are dropping.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
.Dont take any of this the wrong way.. Lets forget what you think you know about the stove mechanically.. and what you think the stove should be doing mechanically.. Lets look at what your doing to the stove and how its responding. Each set up is different.. each day is different.. my stove is ran different yesterday because it was 7 degrees out vs last week when it was 40 degrees out.. same stove, same set up.. different drafting.. my stove drafted harder yesterday then last week.. so I need to change a litt on how I operate it. You can set the stove and walk away.. you just need to think about what you want the stove to do.. learn how the stove reacts. I think your set up of the stove is a little off.
Do you understand OFFGASSING.. Offgassing is the release of the unburnt fuel from the wood during a fire.. This is the smoke you see during a camp fire.. This is the smoke you see coming out the chimney..This is the fuel needed to run the cat.. What your saying and doing is loading the box full of wood, putting the air to half way and offgassing the entire box in a short period of time , and your expectations are, even though your dumping mad fuel on the cat your expectation is that is not going to over fire.. thats like putting your foot on the Accelerator and not expecting the motor to Overrev.. the more you have the primary air open the more the off gassing.. when you turn your primary air all the way back your offgassing is spand ove al longer period of time. You could have taken that same load turned the air all the way back and probably not have the cat go nuclear
I run my stove every night with a full load of wood and never have an issue.. I have 40lbs of wood offgassing over a longer period of time.
Your stove will behave differently in October then February all stoves do. I had to run mine different yesterday then last week.
My stove would be giving the same problems your having if I did that to my stove.
I don't take anything the wrong way and the only way I've made it this far is learning things, many from my own mistakes. I understand what you're saying. Yes it had plenty of fuel to set the cat off with, just surprised me it was good for quite a while before it took off.
Tonight hot reload about 4 splits and it settled down at 1200 at 1/2 air. All good for quite a while when we ate and relaxed, checked temps and it's 1650 cut air and reeled it back in.
Tonight hot reload about 4 splits and it settled down at 1200 at 1/2 air. All good for quite a while when we ate and relaxed, checked temps and it's 1650 cut air and reeled it back in.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
When the cats takes off thats the offgassing.. It will be goot for a while then all the sudden the wood lets go on you.. cutting the aire back reduces the amount. Every time I have a full load the air is 100% cut back.. the stove temp will drop for a bit but as the loas catches the stove will go to 500 and the cat will be 1000/1200 degrees.. If you have a large box of wood with the air half way you'll get a box of coals
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
So this is one of the ways I run my stove.. Ill load the stove like I did the other day.. 1/2 to 3=4s of a box of wood.. put the air half way.. let the load burn down some couple hours.. get it start to coal.. then turn the air all the way bak and it will burn most of the day.. the stove will sit at 500 for hours..
My cat died a few years back and I burned this stove old style never closing the damper. It's a piece of cake to run it like that aside from more chimney cleaning. I can put more heat in the house burning without the cat, sure I use a little more wood. I've always gotten long burns even without the cat 8+ hours is no problem. I like running with the cat mostly for a cleaner flue as this year I changed out the SW for DW stove pipe also.
Whole bunch of shenanigans this morning.... what did I do wrong here?
- I removed all but one of my fireback plugs, I was running with 4 of 8 plugged.
- Full load, objective was to cut air back to 30% at 1000F (I have been doing 50% at 1000)
- Cat launched at ~1200, dialed air back to 0%
- I have a key damper in the stovepipe so I closed that at 1500F to reduce draft.
- Temps kept rising, plugged the EPA hole, no effect
- at 1700F I abandoned ship and bypassed the cat
- Tried again to engage the cat, looked good for a bit then took off when I opened up the pipe damper
- Finally settled in at 1300F and I started opening air back up.
- Glass is loaded with black stuff.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
If your putting in a full load of wood.. You should pretty much immediately close the bypass as long as the cats in operation.. I thing much od you are starting with the cat to high. If you have a key damper in your draft is strong which will pull a lot of aire into the cat..
I did close the damper immediately after loading.
Todays burn was an unmitigated disaster.... I can not control the stove with the fireback holes open. Tomorrow I am going to re-plug them and see what happens.
As you can see in this burn I started cutting air back very early:
- 100% to 50% @ 550
- 50% to 30% @ 850
- 30% to 0% @ 1200
After the fourth try opening the damper I completely blocked the secondary air inlet.
I measured draft several times, all readings were 0.09 to 0.14 iwc, does not seem excessive to me, but I do not really know.
At this point I do not know what to say..... I am speechless... gonna let the stove go cold for tonight, can't take anymore.
Hello everyone, first time poster and Vermont casting Dauntless owner. I have been following this conversation and other similar threads and finally have been able to get some decent burns. 9.5 -10 hrs decent coals in the am . Thanks for all the advice and input from everyone. It has helped tremendously. I have had every issue that everyone else has had and trying to work through them.
However, i am not totally sold on it.
I can start a fire pretty easily and it starts drafting pretty fast, i figured i had a good draft, but there were times i thought it wasn't so great.
I tested the draft with the Dwyer and its coming up a .9-.10 29 degrees wind 3mph 18inches up on pipe cat at 750 couple of small splits in box .
I never seem to be able to shut the air down all the way down basically never past a quarter from closed should i be able to?
If i cut it to much the box fills up with the black smoke immediately. Would excessive draft cause this ?
Set up is 18.5 feet total from top of firebox
3 ft double wall ventis from stove into a 90
18 inch horizontal into a tee (capped at bottom)
insulated liner in masonry chimney
Exposed outside is 4ft of the masonry, and 4 ft extended with class A and standard cap
Wood Red Oak ,Black Locust , Some 15 and under and 20-21%
Thanks in advance.
However, i am not totally sold on it.
I can start a fire pretty easily and it starts drafting pretty fast, i figured i had a good draft, but there were times i thought it wasn't so great.
I tested the draft with the Dwyer and its coming up a .9-.10 29 degrees wind 3mph 18inches up on pipe cat at 750 couple of small splits in box .
I never seem to be able to shut the air down all the way down basically never past a quarter from closed should i be able to?
If i cut it to much the box fills up with the black smoke immediately. Would excessive draft cause this ?
Set up is 18.5 feet total from top of firebox
3 ft double wall ventis from stove into a 90
18 inch horizontal into a tee (capped at bottom)
insulated liner in masonry chimney
Exposed outside is 4ft of the masonry, and 4 ft extended with class A and standard cap
Wood Red Oak ,Black Locust , Some 15 and under and 20-21%
Thanks in advance.
Assume you meant 0.09 not 0.9 iwc.... Mine runs .09 - .14 iwc depending on conditions so you are in the same ballpark. But mine runs like crap so I can't say that's good or bad. I have a key damper in my exhaust pipe and it does not seem to make much difference in how the stove runs. I even welded up some of the holes in the damper to block it even more, but my draft still measures about the same so maybe I need to block it off even more.
I have same problem with low primary air, if I cut it back less than ~30% the glass goes black and the cat will eventually go nuclear.
Seems like closing down the air just makes a lot of smoke and overloads the cat.
I have been trying to figure out how to prevent this for 10 years..... no luck yet, has been quite the adventure.
@Woodsplitter67
I read through your posts.. and will just comment that my experience has been the exact opposite to yours. If I close the bypass too soon or start shutting the primary air back aggressively, the cat will predictably go nuclear, usually several hours later. Letting the whole load catch and turning down more gradually avoids that issue.
I read through your posts.. and will just comment that my experience has been the exact opposite to yours. If I close the bypass too soon or start shutting the primary air back aggressively, the cat will predictably go nuclear, usually several hours later. Letting the whole load catch and turning down more gradually avoids that issue.
Bingo.... So in the past I tried to get everything good and hot and then dial it back. Specifically I tried to char the whole load and get the stove top to 500+ then bring the air down. The engage the cat as soon as you can and dial air back as fast as possible without stalling the cat was new for me but I see the logic.... meter the combustion of the fuel out slower for longer burns and cooler cat temps. I can;t seem to get there though, I end up with a smoldering mess and a runaway cat.
Having tried both I think I had more success getting things good and hot then dialing back the air, but it was only marginally better.
Which begs the question: Why does either approach seem to work for some folks and not others? What is the variable? Draft / primary air leakage / wood type and MC? I do not know....
Yes .09 is what I meant . I have pretty much tamed the cat going nuclear by a tight pack box big splits on bottom and cutting the air back quickly as wood splitter mentioned . I had the factory cat probe which would always indicate over fire. Since switching over to the Auber after one evening with it i haven't gone over 1450 for very long . then eventually get it cruising 1000-or so According to the manual draft I am over recommended, which may have caused my over fire issues . But the weird thing i still notice signs of poor draft even on a calm day which i think is just a characteristic of these down drafts .
Full hot reload last night and cut air back. Cat was controllable but stove never got back to 500, stayed about 300-350 and if I opened air after 2 hours cat wanted to take off. With air off cat was low 1400's to high 1300's STT 3-350.
My latest experiment....
Tried restricting the secondary inlet with a plate and magnet to reduce the secondary airflow. Thinking was if I can't reduce the amount of smoke to control temps maybe I can reduce the air. Will result in incomplete combustion but could yield lower temps if I can get on the rich side of stoich.
Did not work out to well..... this was a 1/2 load, smaller splits. Air was at 100% up to 1000F then dialed down to 50%. As you can see the cat wanted to plateau at 1300F and then launched. At 1400 I dialed the air down to 30% and the stove started to backpuff really bad, that's why all the noise on the temp up to 1600.
Two things I have been mulling over
Tried restricting the secondary inlet with a plate and magnet to reduce the secondary airflow. Thinking was if I can't reduce the amount of smoke to control temps maybe I can reduce the air. Will result in incomplete combustion but could yield lower temps if I can get on the rich side of stoich.
Did not work out to well..... this was a 1/2 load, smaller splits. Air was at 100% up to 1000F then dialed down to 50%. As you can see the cat wanted to plateau at 1300F and then launched. At 1400 I dialed the air down to 30% and the stove started to backpuff really bad, that's why all the noise on the temp up to 1600.
Two things I have been mulling over
- Draft: It seems like the over-firing has gotten worse in the past week. In the past I was able to reduce the frequency of occurrence by reducing the wood load or by not doing hot reloads.
- One condition that has definitely changed is outside temp has gotten colder. Colder temps outside produce stronger draft. Maybe that is a contributor?
- I have a key damper and closing it does not seem to make much difference in the burn or on my manometer. Todays project is to try and get that damper to seal better so I can reduce the draft significantly.
- Air Leaks: If I cant get the primary burn / smolder rate low enough to limit smoke into the cat it makes me think there are some air leaks into the primary zone.
- I checked seams for leaks with a lighter when stove was hot, no obvious leaks.
- If I can get the stove back puffing by reducing primary air flow that seems like an indicator that leaks are not the issue.
@arnermd I now my stove is different but I can cut cat temps when I close my primary. My problem with that is lack of heat, and heat is why I have a wood stove to start with. I've only opened the bypass once when the cat went to 1600 and that was because I wanted to go to bed and didn't want to play with it any longer. I could have cut the air back to smolder and the cat temps would drop but the stove wouldn't make much heat. That's my problem with keeping the cat under control is less heat than I want from the stove.
I still have the question out there as far as the secondary air control specifications. I found a lot of people rigged the secondary air but never with any substantial theory as to why. As long as I keep the cat from going past 1550 my secondary closes itself and remains shut.
I still have the question out there as far as the secondary air control specifications. I found a lot of people rigged the secondary air but never with any substantial theory as to why. As long as I keep the cat from going past 1550 my secondary closes itself and remains shut.
Yeah I know what you are talking about.... I had a burn last week where I was able to reduce and control cat temps by closing down primary air, but the darn thing did not put out any heat. House was cold when I woke up....
As I recall if I start closing down my primary very early (600ish?) and I get it nearly full closed by 1000 I can get a smoldering burn where cats temps stay under 1600 but as you said, the stove puts out very little heat. And the glass is completely coked up. I have tried opening the air a touch when it is like this to increase griddle temp and the thing goes off like a bomb.... Cat to the moon. As Woodsplitter explained the load is just sitting there off gassing, as soon as you open the air a little all that fuel goes off at the same time.
For most of my burns reducing primary air does not reduce my cat temps, at least not for a long time..... Could take hours for a full load. What I need is a happy medium..... no luck yet.
For you secondary have you tried "re-indexing" the secondary so it is more open when closed? That should keep it from winding around where it opens again, or at least raise the temp where it does that.
I would think there would be a stop that prevents this from happening, are you sure you are not missing a part that prevents that?
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