2022/23 VC Owner thread

[Eman85]

@arnermd I really am starting to believe the way my secondary reopens is the way it's supposed to work as every time I've caught it doing that the temps were dropping at the cat, but I cannot find any documentation to reenforce that. For now I'll just try and keep cat temps down. Ideally there should be a thermostat control that would open primary air intake as the cat temps cool to increase heat output.
As I've posted I have run my stove for a few years without ever engaging the cat. Downside was more frequent chimney cleanings. The other thing was it would put a lot of heat in the house, even on overnight burns. With the cat engaged and the stove cooler it is fine if the night time temps are above freezing. This past week or so with near zero temps it wasn't good. I did lose some extra heat this year also by installing a DW pipe to replace the SW that was there.

 

[GrumpyDad]

@arnermd I now my stove is different but I can cut cat temps when I close my primary. My problem with that is lack of heat, and heat is why I have a wood stove to start with. I've only opened the bypass once when the cat went to 1600 and that was because I wanted to go to bed and didn't want to play with it any longer. I could have cut the air back to smolder and the cat temps would drop but the stove wouldn't make much heat. That's my problem with keeping the cat under control is less heat than I want from the stove.
I still have the question out there as far as the secondary air control specifications. I found a lot of people rigged the secondary air but never with any substantial theory as to why. As long as I keep the cat from going past 1550 my secondary closes itself and remains shut.

Ive decided the only way to semi-reliably run MY VC stove, is to use the force. Harness those Jedi powers. Aside from a cheap STT to reaffirm what Im feeling with my hand.
My neighbor who was so gracious to lend me his gear, no longer uses his gear. He doesnt need to, and doesnt want to.
When I was using those probes, I found myself obsessively charting so many things as I see others doing here. It was no longer a hobby or an interest, it was me being the fat kid in the far side cartoon pushing on the pull door.
What woodsplitter said further up, was spot on with my experience. Each day the stove will operate differently. And I'd imagine that is the same for every stove, however VC's seem to be much more finicky.

I do find it easier to run it half full, and avoid adding wood until it's time to reload. 4-6 medium splits works the best. Adjust your air control as needed to see flames unless everything is at the coal stage. Right now I have 1/3 of a box filled with what looks like charcoal, with air control at about 1/2. I may see a lick or two of flames at this point but it's producing great consistent long heat and if I go outside I see ZERO smokes - only heat trails. It will stay like this for another hour or two, and then I'll repeat with another 4-5 pieces. Two at the bottom, one criss crossed on top of those, and another criss crossed on top of that one. I do usually immediately shut down the damper after a reload as I have such great coals at that point.

For overnight burns, I load it up fairly square, and then I keep the damper open and let that load catch. Once I see a box of flames I shut down to secondary burn, leaving my air control on high. I might keep it there for 30 minutes. (if I wait too long I get smells, and alot of tinging noises). Then I lower to 50% and then adjust as needed up/down a bit before I go to sleep. I usually lay there watching TV for about an hour while snacking (yes bad habit), and during that time I'll get up once/twice and check on the stove. At this point I may lower it one notch, and I just dont worry about it for the rest of the night.

For those that have CATS going nuclear, read other posts about the blowtorch sound especially after reload. I see some of you posting about black glass as well. Your logs are turning pitch black, you see no flames. STT is modest at 450-500 but your cat is going nuclear and you hear a whooshing sound if you put your head down toward the back of your stove. I dont know why this happens but for me, this is because I waited too long to reload and reloaded with a smaller bed of coals that are still very strong and hot, and I put wood over every area of coals. So one way to avoid is to put on log criss crossed on the coal bed from front to back then another on top of that, then load two - four more splits however you want. Or, just leave the primary open and let that load catch on fire then switch back to secondary.

Just my experiences. I dont want to watch probe temps anymore. A cheap STT is all I really need and I dont really need it. It will help me teach my wife though. The sides of the stove, what is going on inside the stove with the wood/coals seems to be all that is needed.

 

[Eman85]

Full hot reload last night and cut air back. Cat was controllable but stove never got back to 500, stayed about 300-350 and if I opened air after 2 hours cat wanted to take off. With air off cat was low 1400's to high 1300's STT 3-350.

Last night did the same thing and pretty much same results. One thing that does seem to happen with the air cut back like this is the infamous VC flashover in the firebox followed by the wisp of smoke puff past the griddle. Happens once then it is fine after that.
Just now hot reloaded a few splits and cut air 1/2 way cat climbed into the 1400's and seemed to peak and then settle and drop a little. All seemed well while I was in the other room then as I walked past the stove it was 1550 and rising so I cut air a little and it started dropping and settled in the 1400's STT at 400.

 

[Stevepupnorth]

I can’t help but wonder how quickly mankind would have developed fusion if the cavemen had discovered fire in a Vermont Castings catalytic stove. The level of frustration in these threads is depressing.

In 2020 I bought an Intrepid Flexburn and have been mostly happy with it. It burns 16-18% moisture content Red Oak without a catalyst. I’ve learned much from the forum and continue to build knowledge each time I light the stove. But this I’ll say – I wish it was that late 70s Resolute we had at our family cabin. That things was as easy to operate as an anvil. Back then my dad sold Disa-Matic moulding equipment which is what really made precision cast iron stoves possible. The fellow dad replaced at Disa became the foundry manager for Vermont Castings.

I wish you all the best figuring out these challenging stoves. For my part I think I’d see how far I could throw the catalyst.

 

[arnermd]

@arnermd I really am starting to believe the way my secondary reopens is the way it's supposed to work as every time I've caught it doing that the temps were dropping at the cat, but I cannot find any documentation to reenforce that. For now I'll just try and keep cat temps down. Ideally there should be a thermostat control that would open primary air intake as the cat temps cool to increase heat output.
As I've posted I have run my stove for a few years without ever engaging the cat. Downside was more frequent chimney cleanings. The other thing was it would put a lot of heat in the house, even on overnight burns. With the cat engaged and the stove cooler it is fine if the night time temps are above freezing. This past week or so with near zero temps it wasn't good. I did lose some extra heat this year also by installing a DW pipe to replace the SW that was there.

Yeah could be the design intent. As I mentioned earlier there are two ways to reduce temps (assuming fixed amount of fuel). Reducing air from stoich will reduce temps but result in incomplete combustion , increasing air will also reduce temps and give you more complete combustion. Too much air will dilute the combustion gas temps and you will get less heat out.

My primary concern with allowing more air in is if the amount of smoke is really high you could have a lot of heat released when the air is increasing too....

One of the things I like better about your stove design is the secondary air can't mix with the primary air. In my stove (and all the 2n1 flexburn designs) I think some of the unmetered secondary air is supporting primary combustion. So you have less control over the primary burn rate and less control over how much smoke you deliver to the cat.

Sure would love to hear from a VC designer to see what the design intent was for these stoves and why they did some of the things they did. I would bet EPA regulations forced them to do things they were not comfortable doing and what we ended up with are stoves that run on a knifes edge.... unstable.

Forgot to mention.... I have run experiments on my stove where I actually used a blower to force air into the secondary. It does reduce cat temps for certain. They problem (as I mentioned above) on my stove the secondary air also supports the primary combustion zone. So as I forced air into the secondary the primary burn also intensified, not a long term solution.

 

[arnermd]

I can’t help but wonder how quickly mankind would have developed fusion if the cavemen had discovered fire in a Vermont Castings catalytic stove. The level of frustration in these threads is depressing.

In 2020 I bought an Intrepid Flexburn and have been mostly happy with it. It burns 16-18% moisture content Red Oak without a catalyst. I’ve learned much from the forum and continue to build knowledge each time I light the stove. But this I’ll say – I wish it was that late 70s Resolute we had at our family cabin. That things was as easy to operate as an anvil. Back then my dad sold Disa-Matic moulding equipment which is what really made precision cast iron stoves possible. The fellow dad replaced at Disa became the foundry manager for Vermont Castings.

I wish you all the best figuring out these challenging stoves. For my part I think I’d see how far I could throw the catalyst.

I enjoyed your thought experiment..... welcome to the forum.

Did you take the cat out of your intrepid? Where you having issues?

I am nearing the point of cat removal, somehow I need to get through this burn season. I have run without a cat before and secondary temps can get pretty high even without the cat. As I recall over 1000 or 1200 the smoke will burn all on its own, as long as it has O2. The cat just helps that process along by lighting it off at lower temps. You end up with quicker and longer secondary burns, more efficient, less emissions at the beginning and end of a load.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I enjoyed your thought experiment..... welcome to the forum.

Did you take the cat out of your intrepid? Where you having issues?

I am nearing the point of cat removal, somehow I need to get through this burn season. I have run without a cat before and secondary temps can get pretty high even without the cat. As I recall over 1000 or 1200 the smoke will burn all on its own, as long as it has O2. The cat just helps that process along by lighting it off at lower temps. You end up with quicker and longer secondary burns, more efficient, less emissions at the beginning and end of a load.

When removing the cat there will be many times your stove will stall. creating alot of creosote. You will get some secondary combinations.. not very long.. not the entire burn or offgassing cycle..

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

I have been messing around with process and I will say shutting the damper immediately and then shutting the air keeps the cat in control on a full load. My stove does seem to burn better with the air shut down to a touch above fully closed. I don't get enough heat out of it at fully closed. At night I fully load the stove. Have been following @Woodsplitter67 guidance and shutting air to my lowest setting when load cat hits 1000 and have not had the cat go nuclear.

An important thing to consider here. Loading the stove and running it low is going to put out less heat. We sacrifice this for an extended burn. Trying to run a full load at a high volume of air is bound to send the cat high. It is loaded with fuel at that point. The stove as I understand can function essentially two ways. Run shorter and hotter or longer and cooler. It cannot be expected for the stove to operate at max BTU and max time. It is one or the other

As high as the learning curve has been here this stove definitely saved my ass this last weekend with no power and temps below 15 degrees. Just required more reloading to keep everything in check and produce the amount of heat we needed.

 

[Eman85]

Obvious you can't have both very hot and very long at the same time. Just a little frustrating having too cool to satisfy the cat, I'm looking for that happy medium. I can get long burn times and more temp if I want to load the stove maybe 3-4 hours before bed and increase air after the cat calms down which is my next thing to try. I'm at 2 hours now and it can't take any air increase at that point.
I remember someone posting a while back about opening up the air to lean out the smoke being fed to the cat. I have tried that with very mixed results.

 

[U235]

Ive only really found one way to burn with my dauntless. Medium.
Medium splits, medium air control, loaded up to a medium level.

STT runs at around 450-550. yes I have to adjust the air control a bit away from medium but medium is the target.
I run it on high only to catch a new load.
If I have a nice coal bed, and the sides of the stove are producing alot of heat, that's when I run on secondary. Never before that. The sides of the stove tell me everything.

I returned all my temp probes/data logger to my neighbor...and removed the cat. I may use it for when I want to 'take the edge off' from the house being 63 inside or for night times during the spring. See if that makes a difference and if I will be able to burn low overnight. So far, I havent been able to.

Overnight burns, I typically load up about 3/4 of the way. Never full. Medium splits only with a larger piece on the bottom. I get that going for about 30 minutes adjusting as needed to avoid a full box of flames. I make sure I have a good heat feel from the stove top and sides, look inside to make sure I have a nice coal bed still glowing and that the logs are easily flaming up quickly when I open the door...then I will set the air control to 50% , shut down the damper and wait another 30 minutes or so just checking to see what happens to the flames. At this point I will usually either let it sit where it is at or lower it a notch. But I never raise it, or lower it more than a notch at a time. Then I will either go to bed or check on it again in 30 minutes to make sure it's still riding the same way. At some point through the night, around 3-4, the STT gets to about 600 and the cat runs at 1500ish for a brief period of time. Maybe 30-45 minutes. Then it goes down slowly from there into the morning.

Ill take pictures of my glass in the morning tomorrow. I expect it to be the same. 1/2 to 3/4 of the glass fairly well clean, with the other portion covered but not thick. Not like I used to get.

I have largely been running my encore as @GrumpyDad recommended. Medium. For me, medium gives me enough heat. When that cat hits 600-650, I’ll plop 2-3 splits in for half full box. It’ll peak at 900-1100 and run for a couple hours. Repeat. Bypass only open long enough to drop the wood in, air setting typically just open enough to hear air whistling past in the primary circuit.

One thing I’ve seen (and a very important lesson learned during my first 10-ish WOT/no air control fiascos) was the importance of wood proximity to the back wall. I can have a “medium” load running at 700 and falling and move it back one inch and it’ll go up to 950 or 1000.
So. My proposal to the VC experimenters community is what would happen if you made an air gap between your fuel load and the back wall? Maybe wedge in a couple 1” twigs while hot reloading to keep your load off the wall. Certainly the twig(s) won’t last long, but I don’t think you need it to. Just survive the initial cat surge. It might not (probably won’t) work, but maybe it’s something your haven’t tried yet.
@arnermd - I was really hoping draft was your problem. Sounds like maybe not.

 

[arnermd]

The stove as I understand can function essentially two ways. Run shorter and hotter or longer and cooler. It cannot be expected for the stove to operate at max BTU and max time. It is one or the other

As high as the learning curve has been here this stove definitely saved my ass this last weekend with no power and temps below 15 degrees. Just required more reloading to keep everything in check and produce the amount of heat we needed.

Yeah so my stove does not function two ways.... it barely functions one way. You can choose between smoldering fire with coked up glass and no heat output or a cat melt down..... That being said I have had streaks (a few days), where the stove ran great....

What stove are you running John? You should add it to your tag line so we know. Glad you are having some success.

At this point I do not even care about burn times. I will load the thing every 4 hours if that's what it takes. That being said I always get 8-12 hours out of a full load, even with a nuclear cat. My cat is 2 months old and already starting to crumble..... No surprise they do not warranty the 2n1 cats.

Anybody know what the draft is supposed to be for a 2n1 Defiant? I can find nothing in my manual.

I assume draft is specified when hot? Is that true?
I measured .03-.05 iwc with stovepipe at 90F and .1 - .12 iwc @ 400F

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Yeah so my stove does not function two ways.... it barely functions one way. You can choose between smoldering fire with coked up glass and no heat output or a cat melt down..... That being said I have had streaks (a few days), where the stove ran great....

What stove are you running John? You should add it to your tag line so we know. Glad you are having some success.

At this point I do not even care about burn times. I will load the thing every 4 hours if that's what it takes. That being said I always get 8-12 hours out of a full load, even with a nuclear cat. My cat is 2 months old and already starting to crumble..... No surprise they do not warranty the 2n1 cats.

Anybody know what the draft is supposed to be for a 2n1 Defiant? I can find nothing in my manual.

I assume draft is specified when hot? Is that true?
I measured .03-.05 iwc with stovepipe at 90F and .1 - .12 iwc @ 400

I have an Encore 2040. Added it to the signature.

Every once in a while the cat still goes nuclear. Few times it has definitely been user error. Too much primary air on a full load and bam off she goes.

The root of all these problems could very easily be the cat itself. Would a larger cat help?

 

[arnermd]

I have largely been running my encore as @GrumpyDad recommended. Medium. For me, medium gives me enough heat. When that cat hits 600-650, I’ll plop 2-3 splits in for half full box. It’ll peak at 900-1100 and run for a couple hours. Repeat. Bypass only open long enough to drop the wood in, air setting typically just open enough to hear air whistling past in the primary circuit.

One thing I’ve seen (and a very important lesson learned during my first 10-ish WOT/no air control fiascos) was the importance of wood proximity to the back wall. I can have a “medium” load running at 700 and falling and move it back one inch and it’ll go up to 950 or 1000.
So. My proposal to the VC experimenters community is what would happen if you made an air gap between your fuel load and the back wall? Maybe wedge in a couple 1” twigs while hot reloading to keep your load off the wall. Certainly the twig(s) won’t last long, but I don’t think you need it to. Just survive the initial cat surge. It might not (probably won’t) work, but maybe it’s something your haven’t tried yet.
@arnermd - I was really hoping draft was your problem. Sounds like maybe not.

You know..... the other night I had a good coal bed going, cat was at 900 and falling. I dropped in 2 medium splits and immediately re-engaged that cat. Never touched the air, I think it was like 50% open.... medium, haha. I expected disaster but the cat stayed right around 1000-1100 all night, till it ran out of fuel. You might be onto something there..... I need to try that again.

There is definitely an effect depending on where the fire is, I think especially for the 2n1 designs where the secondary inlet is at the bottom of the firebox. See my earlier post here Link where I stuck a piece of refractory in front of the secondary inlet. I think it had a marginal benefit but I abandoned it to try the @Woodsplitter67 method. I may have to try it again.

I have also found raking the coals to the front makes a significant difference in heat up time for a fresh load. Coals in front take longer for cat to come up to temp and longer to go nuclear. Coals in the back, the cat temps pop right up quick and shorter time for cat to go nuclear. Notice with both methods cat goes nuclear for me.... just a matter of how long it takes.

I think the over drafting is still a potential cause. Not sure how to prove or disprove it. I inspected my key damper today and found it was cracked and the groove for the shaft was worn out. So I need a new one, need to rig up some way to seal it better. I estimated about 11 in^2 of open area when my damper was closed. That equates to a 3.8" diameter, so pretty healthy open area even with the damper closed.

Running tonight with no damper and factory configuration, no blockages..... will be small loads for sure. Pray for me.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I have largely been running my encore as @GrumpyDad recommended. Medium. For me, medium gives me enough heat. When that cat hits 600-650, I’ll plop 2-3 splits in for half full box. It’ll peak at 900-1100 and run for a couple hours. Repeat. Bypass only open long enough to drop the wood in, air setting typically just open enough to hear air whistling past in the primary circuit.

One thing I’ve seen (and a very important lesson learned during my first 10-ish WOT/no air control fiascos) was the importance of wood proximity to the back wall. I can have a “medium” load running at 700 and falling and move it back one inch and it’ll go up to 950 or 1000.
So. My proposal to the VC experimenters community is what would happen if you made an air gap between your fuel load and the back wall? Maybe wedge in a couple 1” twigs while hot reloading to keep your load off the wall. Certainly the twig(s) won’t last long, but I don’t think you need it to. Just survive the initial cat surge. It might not (probably won’t) work, but maybe it’s something your haven’t tried yet.
@arnermd - I was really hoping draft was your problem. Sounds like maybe not.

Kinda the thing Ive been doing with my reload method. Unless I pack it almost full, I drop one about an inch from the back wall and another in front, then I lay one criss crossed the bottom two, and another one opposite criss cross above that one for a total of 4 pieces. OR, I will load two side by side on the coal bed as far forward as I can and then two more on top of those running east/west but just slightly turned as best as I can with maybe some shorter pieces, then one criss crossed on top of those two. Seems to give the coal bed more ability to send heat up through the new fuel rather than try to rush ALL the air / heat through the secondary creating that whooshing sound and keeps the cat temp down. Which, I dont know what my temps are anymore because I got rid of all that stuff.

It got pretty warm here today, mid 40's, which feels like a heat wave. Unfortunately Im going to have to let this just burn down and wait before reloading at some point an hour or two before bed.

I really dislike this stove. I no longer hate it, and when it's producing those gentle waves of flames - I'm ok with it. I still get a kick of enthusiasm when I go to load my stove. I guess Ive have relegated my expectations to a much lower tier. I'll probably kick it back up to a super hate mode when the wife calls me in a panic while Im on a ski trip or something.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I have largely been running my encore as @GrumpyDad recommended. Medium. For me, medium gives me enough heat. When that cat hits 600-650, I’ll plop 2-3 splits in for half full box. It’ll peak at 900-1100 and run for a couple hours. Repeat. Bypass only open long enough to drop the wood in, air setting typically just open enough to hear air whistling past in the primary circuit.

One thing I’ve seen (and a very important lesson learned during my first 10-ish WOT/no air control fiascos) was the importance of wood proximity to the back wall. I can have a “medium” load running at 700 and falling and move it back one inch and it’ll go up to 950 or 1000.
So. My proposal to the VC experimenters community is what would happen if you made an air gap between your fuel load and the back wall? Maybe wedge in a couple 1” twigs while hot reloading to keep your load off the wall. Certainly the twig(s) won’t last long, but I don’t think you need it to. Just survive the initial cat surge. It might not (probably won’t) work, but maybe it’s something your haven’t tried yet.
@arnermd - I was really hoping draft was your problem. Sounds like maybe not.

This is a huge mistake as @GrumpyDad has had a chimney fire and has extremely poor burning habits.. he is new making alot of mistakes.. pleas learn to run the stove correctly He is running his stove with. out his cat and has alot of creosote issies

here is a pic od another trhead he started regarding the issue hes having with creosote

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Guys just a heads up.. When you load the stove up and you turn the air down the stove will not run as hot. This is the lowest setting. It will peak at some point maybe 500 when you at maximum offgassing. This is when your getting maximum burn length of time not maximum heat.. After an overnight burn my house is cooler then it was during the day burns , this should be expected. Just refire up the.stove. coals should be present and stove should take off easily

 

[U235]

This is a huge mistake as @GrumpyDad has had a chimney fire and has extremely poor burning habits.. he is new making alot of mistakes.. pleas learn to run the stove correctly He is running his stove with. out his cat and has alot of creosote issies

here is a pic od another trhead he started regarding the issue hes having with creosote

View attachment 306417

I only meant running it with partial loads. Catalyst is still installed in my unit. As best I can tell from running a bit with the factory sensor, near 650 is the bottom of the “operate catalyst” range. That being said, I’ve only run this stove for 2 months. Is bouncing between 650 and 1000 (catalyst engaged) with partial fuel loads a risky way to run?

 

[Woodsplitter67]

You know..... the other night I had a good coal bed going, cat was at 900 and falling. I dropped in 2 medium splits and immediately re-engaged that cat. Never touched the air, I think it was like 50% open.... medium, haha. I expected disaster but the cat stayed right around 1000-1100 all night, till it ran out of fuel. You might be onto something there..... I need to try that again.

There is definitely an effect depending on where the fire is, I think especially for the 2n1 designs where the secondary inlet is at the bottom of the firebox. See my earlier post here Link where I stuck a piece of refractory in front of the secondary inlet. I think it had a marginal benefit but I abandoned it to try the @Woodsplitter67 method. I may have to try it again.

I have also found raking the coals to the front makes a significant difference in heat up time for a fresh load. Coals in front take longer for cat to come up to temp and longer to go nuclear. Coals in the back, the cat temps pop right up quick and shorter time for cat to go nuclear. Notice with both methods cat goes nuclear for me.... just a matter of how long it takes.

I think the over drafting is still a potential cause. Not sure how to prove or disprove it. I inspected my key damper today and found it was cracked and the groove for the shaft was worn out. So I need a new one, need to rig up some way to seal it better. I estimated about 11 in^2 of open area when my damper was closed. That equates to a 3.8" diameter, so pretty healthy open area even with the damper closed.

Running tonight with no damper and factory configuration, no blockages..... will be small loads for sure. Pray for me.

Draft is the engine that drives the stove. when draft is super high its pulling tons of air through the stove.. Its also the opposite.. Lack of draft will kill the stove and stall the cat/stove.
When draft is super high this is why people feel that A.. the stove is getting away from them and its getting to much air B.. the need to plug the primary/ or secondary air
My stove rarely has a cat temp of 1400 and above but the other day it was extremely cold and draft was higher thn normal.
Draft will change throughout the burning season.. weak in early fall.. strong in dead of winter.. weaker again come later spring.. it will even vary from week to week in winter.. last weekend draft will be super high.. next week will be alot weaker..

Strong draft will pull lots of air into the cat if draft is to high, even with the aire turned back your cat temps will get super.. your stove pipe will draft.. draft is like hooking a vacuum cleaner up to it..it will draw alot of.air through it..

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I only meant running it with partial loads. Catalyst is still installed in my unit. As best I can tell from running a bit with the factory sensor, near 650 is the bottom of the “operate catalyst” range. That being said, I’ve only run this stove for 2 months. Is bouncing between 650 and 1000 (catalyst engaged) with partial fuel loads a risky way to run?

One.of the things that has helped in the past is using the digital prob. When I ran the factory bimetal prob I found it to be difficult at best. Putting the digital meter on was night and day.. no guess work
Many are using the aubor AT100 with.k type 6in thermo coupler.. information is like 5 pages back.. one member installed it and was nigh and day for him running the stove

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I have an Encore 2040. Added it to the signature.

Every once in a while the cat still goes nuclear. Few times it has definitely been user error. Too much primary air on a full load and bam off she goes.

The root of all these problems could very easily be the cat itself. Would a larger cat help?

Its not a matter of a larger cat. There are 2 things.. fuel going to the cat and air/draft.. with out the excessive fuel the cat cant take off.. the more fuel that is pulled into the cat by air/draft the higher the cat will go.. I have the 2040.. so do some of my friends.. great heaters.. they will throw some heat

 

[Ashhole]

I can’t help but wonder how quickly mankind would have developed fusion if the cavemen had discovered fire in a Vermont Castings catalytic stove. The level of frustration in these threads is depressing.

In 2020 I bought an Intrepid Flexburn and have been mostly happy with it. It burns 16-18% moisture content Red Oak without a catalyst. I’ve learned much from the forum and continue to build knowledge each time I light the stove. But this I’ll say – I wish it was that late 70s Resolute we had at our family cabin. That things was as easy to operate as an anvil. Back then my dad sold Disa-Matic moulding equipment which is what really made precision cast iron stoves possible. The fellow dad replaced at Disa became the foundry manager for Vermont Castings.

I wish you all the best figuring out these challenging stoves. For my part I think I’d see how far I could throw the catalyst.

I've had a VC Winterwarm for 20 years. It took a while but I know the stove's personality pretty well. Get a 1 inch bed of coals, throw some splits on and engage cat when the splits are scorched. The stove will make a certain clanking sound of iron heating up which lets me know the cat lit off. I'll go on the deck to check for chimney smoke. No smoke all is well. No thermometers or probes.

 

[Eman85]

I've had a VC Winterwarm for 20 years. It took a while but I know the stove's personality pretty well. Get a 1 inch bed of coals, throw some splits on and engage cat when the splits are scorched. The stove will make a certain clanking sound of iron heating up which lets me know the cat lit off. I'll go on the deck to check for chimney smoke. No smoke all is well. No thermometers or probes.

That's the way I ran mine for years, now I have a temp probe. I'd say I wasn't aware of how hot my cat had really gotten in the past, but didn't know so I didn't care. Now with the probe it's interesting and aggravating now that I know how hot the cat is getting.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Its not a matter of a larger cat. There are 2 things.. fuel going to the cat and air/draft.. with out the excessive fuel the cat cant take off.. the more fuel that is pulled into the cat by air/draft the higher the cat will go.. I have the 2040.. so do some of my friends.. great heaters.. they will throw some heat

It definitely produces heat. My layout is less than ideal and I can get the upstairs up to 70 and the stove room to the mid 70s. The furthest point it heats will get up to the mid 60s which is fine. That is a poorly insulated mudroom with 4 windows and a sliding glass door plus a door to the garage.

The process to run these correctly just takes some trial and error. Every setup and wood supply is different so there won't be a one size fits all approach here. I think the point you made earlier about ignoring the mechanics and looking at why the stove is operating the way it is is key. Cat takes off, ask why? There are a few reasons to this but I think the most common will be fuel. In most cases the primary is probably not closed down quick enough I feel from my end. But sometimes if the coal bed is too small and the primary goes down too quick it stalls. It just has come down to feel and timing making sure the cat goes off and the primary is cut when it does.

I loaded this morning cat at 630. Half box of wood. Closed damper. Cat got up to 1000 I shut the air to half. I haven't touched it or looked since. That was almost 3 hours ago. No alarm went off and its getting warmer in my house from the overnight cooldown. As much hate as these stoves get, they can be run effectively and I would not consider them defective. Are they the simplest, absolutely not. But effective heaters, absolutely.

 

[Jmorg]

Good morning, been a while since I’ve looked at the thread…unfortunately looks like people are having a lot of issues. I wish you guys luck and hopefully these issues can get resolved quickly!

On the other hand, my Dauntless has been running smoother than ever. It’s been going nonstop for 6 days now. I’m into my good wood now…all white and red oak seasoned about 1.5 years with a mc of 15-18%. Getting consistent 11 hour burn times at night and easy re starts in the morning with a lot of hot coals to get going easily. I load up at 10 pm and make sure the load catches well and the cat is lit off and then I close the air exactly half way and that gets me 10-11 hours easy. STT is usually about 350-400 deg when I wake up and I open the air fully and let the coals get nice and hot before reloading. I usually keep the primary 3 clicks back from fully open during the day and that keeps the STT between 550-650 for a few hours. I hardly ever change the air setting…it might get a little over 650 STT for a bit but usually doesn’t stay there too long. My glass gets dark at night but seems to burn off pretty well after getting it going in the AM. Here are some pics from this AM after 11 hours and opening up primary before reloading and right after reloading…

 

[GrumpyDad]

Good morning, been a while since I’ve looked at the thread…unfortunately looks like people are having a lot of issues. I wish you guys luck and hopefully these issues can get resolved quickly!

On the other hand, my Dauntless has been running smoother than ever. It’s been going nonstop for 6 days now. I’m into my good wood now…all white and red oak seasoned about 1.5 years with a mc of 15-18%. Getting consistent 11 hour burn times at night and easy re starts in the morning with a lot of hot coals to get going easily. I load up at 10 pm and make sure the load catches well and the cat is lit off and then I close the air exactly half way and that gets me 10-11 hours easy. STT is usually about 350-400 deg when I wake up and I open the air fully and let the coals get nice and hot before reloading. I usually keep the primary 3 clicks back from fully open during the day and that keeps the STT between 550-650 for a few hours. I hardly ever change the air setting…it might get a little over 650 STT for a bit but usually doesn’t stay there too long. My glass gets dark at night but seems to burn off pretty well after getting it going in the AM. Here are some pics from this AM after 11 hours and opening up primary before reloading and right after reloading…

View attachment 306449 View attachment 306450 View attachment 306451

I dont know why but I've been opening the door and doing a quick scrap with the green scrubby before reloading in the morning. Helps get the coals going in the morning and I can see better what my reload is doing. I still struggle with reloads and having to fiddle.