2022/23 VC Owner thread

[arnermd]

How are you guys measuring your CAT temps? did you install an aftermarket probe in there? I have never monitored my CAT temp and by reading this thread i dont want to even know.

Welcome to the club..... ignorance is bliss.

Search previous posts for "Auber" you will find cat temp monitoring has been discussed at length. I would recommend you take a valium before reading, it can get pretty depressing, but then @Woodsplitter67 shows up and preaches his gospel of hope.... hahaha

Best I can tell we all fall into one of three categories:

1. Figured out how to burn consistently (very small elite crowd)
2. Gave up and either stopped caring or bought another stove
3. A few of us idiots keep trying to figure it out with more and more data / adjustments. That's me.....

 

[GrumpyDad]

Welcome to the club..... ignorance is bliss.

Search previous posts for "Auber" you will find cat temp monitoring has been discussed at length. I would recommend you take a valium before reading, it can get pretty depressing, but then @Woodsplitter67 shows up and preaches his gospel of hope.... hahaha

Best I can tell we all fall into one of three categories:

1. Figured out how to burn consistently (very small elite crowd)
2. Gave up and either stopped caring or bought another stove
3. A few of us idiots keep trying to figure it out with more and more data / adjustments. That's me.....

Im literally in all 3 camps, at the same time, to some degree.
You forgot about #4. They dont know they have a problem, burn hot all the time and probably have overfired their stove and their secondary more times than I can count.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

How are you guys measuring your CAT temps? did you install an aftermarket probe in there? I have never monitored my CAT temp and by reading this thread i dont want to even know.

The VC Encore is the hardest stove to run I have ever had, and I've had multiple brands over the past 20 years. Granted mine is an older Encore CAT stove but i did a ton of maintenance to it before this burn season and its hardly different than last year. I'm about done with it. There should be more people on here steering others away from VC, I sure wish I did more research before i bought the "pretty" stove from a company thats been making stoves since the beginning of time. A company thats been around as long as VC there is no excuse as to why these stoves are a PITA to operate.

Its a more challenging stove because its a down draft stove. It was this way when you purchased it. There were some troublesome stoves in the past for sure and there were some design problems.. aka.. I wouldn't want a stove where you have to take the back apart to get the cat out.. also down draft stove require alot of pre-planning regarding set up
Which stove model do you have.. and what is your stovepipe set-up

Most use the Auber AT100 .. many have posted in the past that putting this in has made a bug difference in stove operation.. you see in real time what the cats doing

 

[arnermd]

This mornings fiasco.....

- Full load of dry splits (15% MC), typical coal bed, loaded engaged cat and put air to 10% right away.
- Cat climbed to 1550, I closed my key damper because draft was high again
- Thought is was under control but then turned up again, increased air to 40% to get more primary burn and it settled down after bouncing off 1620.

Possible mistake this time:
- Reloaded when cat was pretty hot, 650. But heat from coals took it right to 800... Coal bed too hot?
- Ran with very low air and ended up with a smokey primary?

On the plus side I checked for smoke several times and there was none / very little, whispy....

All opinions / suggestions / comments are welcome...

 

[Eman85]

@njk4o5 What model and how old is your Encore? I have an original bought in 1987. I never had any themp readings before this year aside from STT and flue temp with magnetic thermometers. I'm sure I wasn't controlling it optimally in the past but I also think that the older cats weren't as wild as the new ones. I quit with using the cat for a few years until this year when I regasketed and installed new DW stove pipe and an Auber probe. I already owned temperature meters for K style thermocouples so I just use them with the probe from Auber. I can say that following the cat temps requires a lot of other judgement calls as far as air control. This is a lot like tuning my drag car and predicting e.t.'s. I'm getting better but my cat will still take off if I'm late to the air control especially on a full load after a hot reload which I do every night. I have been able to get 12-14 hour burns before reloading when I hit it right and reload early enough in the evening that I can have it set to cruise by bed time.

 

[Eman85]

@arnermd If I get mine turned down earlier I give it room to climb with the air cut down. I will shut the air almost closed in the 11-1200 range and it will slow down and cruise then rise slowly and finally stop in the 1300-1400 range. I've tried the open the primary but if it's in the 14's already it takes off fast to the 16's. I don't have a key damper, 8" pipe but short as it's 1 story straight up.

 

[arnermd]

Metal Cat on order.... $180 after sales tax..... cheaper than a new stove. Fingers crossed but I am a skeptic....

 

[Diabel]

agreed.... except I freely admit I am very frustrated...

I feel like this poor little dog here, whenever I re-load......

View attachment 308451

Metal Cat on order.... $180 after sales tax..... cheaper than a new stove. Fingers crossed but I am a skeptic....

How many cats have you gone through over how many years?

 

[arnermd]

My cat / refractory history:

• Jan 2012: new stove installed
• Jan 2015: New cat (Firecat under warranty)
• Nov 2017: New refractory (under warranty)
• Jan 2017: New Condar CC-800
• Nov 2020: New Condar CC-800
• Jan 2021: New refractory (under warranty)
• Nov 2022: New Condar CC-800
• Feb 2023: Metal cat, Midwest Hearth

I am on my 5th one in 11 years, ~1.5 - 2 years per.
Refractory life: 5 years, 4 years, 2 years and counting.

 

[njk4o5]

@njk4o5 What model and how old is your Encore? I have an original bought in 1987. I never had any themp readings before this year aside from STT and flue temp with magnetic thermometers. I'm sure I wasn't controlling it optimally in the past but I also think that the older cats weren't as wild as the new ones. I quit with using the cat for a few years until this year when I regasketed and installed new DW stove pipe and an Auber probe. I already owned temperature meters for K style thermocouples so I just use them with the probe from Auber. I can say that following the cat temps requires a lot of other judgement calls as far as air control. This is a lot like tuning my drag car and predicting e.t.'s. I'm getting better but my cat will still take off if I'm late to the air control especially on a full load after a hot reload which I do every night. I have been able to get 12-14 hour burns before reloading when I hit it right and reload early enough in the evening that I can have it set to cruise by bed time.

We should be able to establish a bed of coals, close the damper to put it in CAT, then adjust the air knob to whatever keeps the house warm and forget about the stove for 8 hours. My stove is a late 90s model i think 1998, and it's too small for my house. I would like to be able to keep the air knob full open in CAT mode on real cold days but i bet something would go terribly wrong.

 

[njk4o5]

My cat / refractory history:

• Jan 2012: new stove installed
• Jan 2015: New cat (Firecat under warranty)
• Nov 2017: New refractory (under warranty)
• Jan 2017: New Condar CC-800
• Nov 2020: New Condar CC-800
• Jan 2021: New refractory (under warranty)
• Nov 2022: New Condar CC-800
• Feb 2023: Metal cat, Midwest Hearth

I am on my 5th one in 11 years, ~1.5 - 2 years per.
Refractory life: 5 years, 4 years, 2 years and counting.

doesnt a refractory cost about $900? Why would that ever break? I know for sure before i spend that much on my VC toilet im putting that money toward a Blazeking

 

[Diabel]

My cat / refractory history:

• Jan 2012: new stove installed
• Jan 2015: New cat (Firecat under warranty)
• Nov 2017: New refractory (under warranty)
• Jan 2017: New Condar CC-800
• Nov 2020: New Condar CC-800
• Jan 2021: New refractory (under warranty)
• Nov 2022: New Condar CC-800
• Feb 2023: Metal cat, Midwest Hearth

I am on my 5th one in 11 years, ~1.5 - 2 years per.
Refractory life: 5 years, 4 years, 2 years and counting.

That is a lot of maintenance and stuff. It should not have to be like this.

 

[Eman85]

We should be able to establish a bed of coals, close the damper to put it in CAT, then adjust the air knob to whatever keeps the house warm and forget about the stove for 8 hours. My stove is a late 90s model i think 1998, and it's too small for my house. I would like to be able to keep the air knob full open in CAT mode on real cold days but i bet something would go terribly wrong.

That would be ideal, but it ain't going to happen. Now if you installed stepper motor on the air intake and monitored STT,Cat temp and flue temp and designed a control module I think it's possible. Real advanced would be outdoor temp, humidity and indoor temp inputs. Then we need O2 sensors in the flue and an automatic fuel feed.

 

[njk4o5]

That would be ideal, but it ain't going to happen. Now if you installed stepper motor on the air intake and monitored STT,Cat temp and flue temp and designed a control module I think it's possible. Real advanced would be outdoor temp, humidity and indoor temp inputs. Then we need O2 sensors in the flue and an automatic fuel feed.

so basically a pellet stove that takes 22" long pellets haha

 

[arnermd]

doesnt a refractory cost about $900? Why would that ever break? I know for sure before i spend that much on my VC toilet im putting that money toward a Blazeking

If memory serves it was ~$1200 worth of parts a couple years ago. As I indicated, VC covered parts cost (twice) under warranty. I just had to wait for parts to come in (took 2 months) and rebuild the stove, twice.

Why would it ever break.... You should ask VC that. My opinion is that frequent 1600 - 1700 secondary temps puts a lot of stress on refractory. Which is why I am so worked up about staying below 1500.....

 

[GrumpyDad]

If memory serves it was ~$1200 worth of parts a couple years ago. As I indicated, VC covered parts cost (twice) under warranty. I just had to wait for parts to come in (took 2 months) and rebuild the stove, twice.

Why would it ever break.... You should ask VC that. My opinion is that frequent 1600 - 1700 secondary temps puts a lot of stress on refractory. Which is why I am so worked up about staying below 1500.....

Well you saw that guy's video. Warranty denied. He showed his refractory. It looked pretty gnarly. Not sure what point you determine to get a replacement though? Assuming once it starts crumbling away?

I can't believe you've been fighting with your stove for over ten years now. I don't know that I would have that level of patience. Every year I'd save a bit in a jar to turn that stove into a lawn ornament.

 

[arnermd]

Well you saw that guy's video. Warranty denied. He showed his refractory. It looked pretty gnarly. Not sure what point you determine to get a replacement though? Assuming once it starts crumbling away?

I can't believe you've been fighting with your stove for over ten years now. I don't know that I would have that level of patience. Every year I'd save a bit in a jar to turn that stove into a lawn ornament.

I give VC credit.... they honored my warranty twice. My stove has a lifetime warranty on the refractory, I do not think that has persisted. I have no idea how many times they will honor it, I am hoping I do not need to find out.....

Hard to believe it has been ten years..... Some might call me crazy and they might be right. I keep trying for 2 reasons, primarily:

1. I am pretty frugal and I get the most out of my equipment, after it owes me nothing I fix it and squeeze some more juice out of it. Ask my wife. She has resorted to burying dead hairdryers in the garbage so I can't find them and fix them.
2. I love to fix things.... I have "fixed" nearly every thing in my house. Appliances, small engines, cars, electronics. Very few things I can't fix and I enjoy figuring it out and doing it. So far this stove has eluded me and my patience is wearing thin..... Unfortunately in this case, I can be very persistent.....

I ran with mag temps on stove pipe and top for years till my refractory showed signs of stress, then I realized something was not right.... So really I have only been trying to solve this problem for 6 years.... this could be the year!

I keep at it because I love owning a wood stove, I grew up processing and burning wood, I also had coal in the past. I love dropping trees, bucking, splitting, stacking, loading the stove. I used to split 4 cord a year by hand, couple years back I got a good deal on a splitter.... I still go out some nights and split by hand for an hour or two.... just for the satisfaction. It is gratifying work I think.

For all my ranting..... there is a lot of things I love about this stove. If you could offer me a VC defiant that was guaranteed to not exceed 1350 cat temps I would buy another one over a BK at the same price..... Who needs 30 hour burns, I am perfectly happy with 8-10, more than that is nice, but not required.... Replacing a cat every 1.5 - 2 years is a minor annoyance for me, not a big deal in the grand scheme of things....

I could go on.... but I wont.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I give VC credit.... they honored my warranty twice. My stove has a lifetime warranty on the refractory, I do not think that has persisted. I have no idea how many times they will honor it, I am hoping I do not need to find out.....

Hard to believe it has been ten years..... Some might call me crazy and they might be right. I keep trying for 2 reasons, primarily:

1. I am pretty frugal and I get the most out of my equipment, after it owes me nothing I fix it and squeeze some more juice out of it. Ask my wife. She has resorted to burying dead hairdryers in the garbage so I can find them and fix them.
2. I love to fix things.... I have "fixed" nearly every thing in my house. Appliances, small engines, cars, electronics. Very few things I can't fix and I enjoy figuring it out and doing it. So far this stove has eluded me and my patience is wearing thin..... Unfortunately in this case, I can be very persistent.....

I ran with mag temps on stove pipe and top for years till my refractory showed signs of stress, then I realized something was not right.... So really I have only been trying to solve this problem for 6 years.... this could be the year!

I keep at it because I love owning a wood stove, I grew up processing and burning wood, I also had coal in the past. I love dropping trees, bucking, splitting, stacking, loading the stove. I used to split 4 cord a year by hand, couple years back I got a good deal on a splitter.... I still go out some nights and split by hand for an hour or two.... just for the satisfaction. It is gratifying work I think.

For all my ranting..... there is a lot of things I love about this stove. If you could offer me a VC defiant that was guaranteed to not exceed 1350 cat temps I would buy another one over a BK at the same price..... Who needs 30 hour burns, I am perfectly happy with 8-10, more than that is nice, but not required....

I could go on.... but I wont.

post the wood pile and processing place for us to admire

Honestly.. I wouldn't change my stove at all.. runs great heats well.. wife loves it and operates it like a champ..

 

[arnermd]

Here it comes..... you asked.

My good stuff, 2 years under the roof, 15% MC. Right side is this years, left side is next years. Almost 4 cord each. I had a lot of fun designing the sheds 3 years back..... I did it in a cad package and even did finite element load analysis and vibratory analysis, just for fun.

My junk pile 18 - 20% MC, maybe 3 cord. Some idiot bucked it for my neighbor, lengths are literally 10" to 24", nightmare to stack. This is what I burned the past 2 weeks. Lower cat temps for sure.

My "I don't know where else to put it" pile..... 8 cord, 20" lengths (bucked by me). 1-2 years under tarp, it may sit there for a few years.....

The "20 footers future work" pile.....

No processing happening this winter, I am so far ahead of my needs it is silly. I will go drop some dead once in a while and buck and split by hand, just for something to do.

Actually.... Question I have been entertaining, maybe you have an opinion....

• The right shed will be empty come March.
• I was going to move the "I don't know where to put it" stack into the shed, or half of it anyway.
  • IDK pile is 1-2 years split and under tarp, on top of pallets.
• But now I am thinking I might buck and split the 20ft pile and get it under cover, or some of it.....
  • This pile is ~1 year outside, uncovered, off ground by 12" or so. A fox made a den under there.....
• More efficient for me to buck and split the 20ft pile as opposed to moving the other pile into the shed. And I get more wood under cover.....

 

[Willcgt77]

I tend to agree here. With so many variables it is impossible to repeat a process. One small change and the stove overheats the cat. It certainly requires a lot of feel. One load of wood to the next it's all different. Even if draft, cat reload temp, coal bed size is all the same.

I say this and my stove has been cruising for about 10-12 days or so since the last meltdown. I'm so screwed for tonight down. 1700 cat temps incoming

I’ve been having better luck lately if my first row of Wood is Ash or Maple @ 18% MC then some Oak followed by Ash or Maple on top. Seems like the Oak burns so hot that it kicks the Cat into overdrive but if I do this It helps a lot.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Here it comes..... you asked.

My good stuff, 2 years under the roof, 15% MC. Right side is this years, left side is next years. Almost 4 cord each. I had a lot of fun designing the sheds 3 years back..... I did it in a cad package and even did finite element load analysis and vibratory analysis, just for fun.

View attachment 308499

My junk pile 18 - 20% MC, maybe 3 cord. Some idiot bucked it for my neighbor, lengths are literally 10" to 24", nightmare to stack. This is what I burned the past 2 weeks. Lower cat temps for sure.
View attachment 308502

My "I don't know where else to put it" pile..... 8 cord, 20" lengths (bucked by me). 1-2 years under tarp, it may sit there for a few years.....
View attachment 308503

The "20 footers future work" pile.....
View attachment 308504

No processing happening this winter, I am so far ahead of my needs it is silly. I will go drop some dead once in a while and buck and split by hand, just for something to do.

Actually.... Question I have been entertaining, maybe you have an opinion....

• The right shed will be empty come March.
• I was going to move the "I don't know where to put it" stack into the shed, or half of it anyway.
  • IDK pile is 1-2 years split and under tarp, on top of pallets.
• But now I am thinking I might buck and split the 20ft pile and get it under cover, or some of it.....
  • This pile is ~1 year outside, uncovered, off ground by 12" or so. A fox made a den under there.....
• More efficient for me to buck and split the 20ft pile as opposed to moving the other pile into the shed. And I get more wood under cover.....

I dont ever move wood.. Its process and stack in wood shed.. before all the sheds.. it was stack in racks and cover.. I got tired of tarps and covering so I went with all sheds.. I keep 14 cords under roof.. If anything take the time you would spend on moving wood and build a permanent roof..

 

[arnermd]

I’ve been having better luck lately if my first row of Wood is Ash or Maple @ 18% MC then some Oak followed by Ash or Maple on top. Seems like the Oak burns so hot that it kicks the Cat into overdrive but if I do this It helps a lot.

Well that is interesting.... I have some ash (the left shed is almost all ash) that is probably ready to go..... I am gong to try that. Other than that almost all of my wood is red oak. I am very curious to try it.... maybe tonight.

Just went to the shed and pulled out two splits of ash, of course it was in the back..... Split one again, MC = 17%. We shall see.

 

[arnermd]

I dont ever move wood.. Its process and stack in wood shed.. before all the sheds.. it was stack in racks and cover.. I got tired of tarps and covering so I went with all sheds.. I keep 14 cords under roof.. If anything take the time you would spend on moving wood and build a permanent roof..

hahaha.... that thought crossed my mind too.... Pressure treated is so expensive right now though.... at least it was when I built the sheds. You have a low cost method for a more permanent structure?

Last thing I want is to have the wood rot in place.....

P.S. you might wonder why I built two sheds instead of one bigger one.... Boneheads in town decided any structure > 100 ft^2 requires a permit.... So being a libertarian, I made mine slightly less than that....each. 10x8 on the inside.... The center roof is simply supported by the other two, I can take it down easy if I have too. I should put wood in there but then I need to move my Kubota implements....

 

[Willcgt77]

Well that is interesting.... I have some ash (the left shed is almost all ash) that is probably ready to go..... I am gong to try that. Other than that almost all of my wood is red oak. I am very curious to try it.... maybe tonight.

Just went to the shed and pulled out two splits of ash, of course it was in the back..... Split one again, MC = 17%. We shall see.

It makes a big difference, its been consistently better for three days with this method. The Red Oak, White Oak and Hickory don’t seem to do well on their own. Good Luck. Looking forward to your results!

 

[Willcgt77]

Move It Once!