3 Stage Snowblower

[velvetfoot]

I saw one at HD. Anybody heard anything about them?

 

[TreePointer]

I was looking at them when I was in the market for a snowblower last year but never actually used one. I decided on a less expensive Husqvarna 2-stage model (ST224P).

 

[Batman]

I took a shine to them a couple of years ago too. I think cub cadet was the first vendor to make one. My main take-away from it all was that the ones from the dealer are of higher quality than the home cheapo ones, just like saws. I was all set to take the plunge when i found a barely used toro for $500. I have noticed that more companies are putting out "three stage" models, so maybe there is something to it. I am still curious about 'em. I wonder how they do with heavy wet snow. Here's hoping that someone here can fill us in.

 

[Gotrek]

One extra bearing to wear out Never needed more then 2 stages here in the great white north. And we get all the kinds of snow. The locals have like 72 different words for the different kinds of snow...

 

[firefighterjake]

One extra bearing to wear out Never needed more then 2 stages here in the great white north. And we get all the kinds of snow. The locals have like 72 different words for the different kinds of snow...

1. Snow Dust
2. Blizzard
3. Nor'easta
4. 'Slotta Snow
5. Crap Load Of Snow
6. I'm Not Going To Make It To Work Today Snow
7. Weather Forecasters Blowing The Storm Out of Proportion Snow
8. Snow-pocalypse
9. Snow-mageddon
10. Time to Pick Up the Bleach, Beer and Batteries Snow
11. Day Off From School Snow
12. Time for New Snow Tires Snow
13. Do You Want to Build A Snowman Snow
14. 'Taint Nothin' to Worry About Snow
15. Don't Eat the Yellow Snow Snow
16. Probably Shouldn't Any Colored Snow For That Matter Snow
17. Snow Flurries
18. Graupel
19. Snow Squall
20. Hoar Frost Snow
21. White Out Snow
22. Powdery Snow
23. Sleet-snow Mix
24. Thunder Snow
25. Lake Effect Snow
26. Kid Hopes School is Canceled Tomorrow Because He Didn't Write His Term Paper Due Tomorrow Snow
27. Champagne Powder Snow
28. Rimed Snow
29. ^%$@! Snow
30. Got My &^$%( Plow Stuck in the Snow Snow
31.Crusty Snow
32. Corn Snow
33. Snirt Snow (Snow and Dirt)
34. The Most Beautiful First Snow Fall of the Season Snow
35. It's Going to be a White Christmas Snow
36. It's a Christmas Eve Miracle Snowfall Snow
37. December 25th This Snow Is Going To Make Traveling to Grandma's House Over the Hill and Through the Dale Treacherous Snow
38. The %$#@ 24th Snow Fall Snow of the Season
39. My $^#@ Snow Shovel Broke Due to This Heavy, Wet Snow Snow
40. Crud Snow
41. Packed Powder Snow
42. Holy Crap that Snow Has a 2 Inch Crust on It that Could lacerate a guy's liver if he fell on it wrong Snow
43. Does The Town Snow Plow Really Have to Throw that Snow in My Driveway Right After I've Finished Shoveling It Out Snow
44. Watermelon Snow
45. Brown Snow (Also not safe to eat in any situation)
46. Snow Donut Snow
47. This 2 feet of Ice on the Pond is Going to be Terribly Difficult to Remove for Ice Fishing Snow
48. Roof Snow
49. Where Did My Ash Can That I Just Filled With Hot Ashes Go Snow
50. Probably Shouldn't Let My Dachshund Out In This Snow Without a GPS Tracking Collar Around Her Neck
51. Snow Patrol's Snow
52. Snow Slick
53. Feels Like My Face Is Being Bombarded By a 1,000 Needles Snow
54. Groomed Snow
55. Hardpack Snow
56. Snice
57. Peanut Butter Snow
58. You Think This Snow Storm is Bad, You Should Have Been Here in ___ For that Snow Storm. That one was bad Snow.
59. Memory Snow -- When you were younger there was always more snow, it was deeper and it snowed way more
60. Why Is This Idiot Driving 10 mph in this Snow Snow . . . it's not that bad . . . do they think they are going to suddenly careen off the road and die
61. Why is This Idiot Driving 85 mph in this Snow Snow . . . it's really bad . . . do they think having 4WD means they are invincible
62. Snizzle
63. Slush
64. Wheel Is Out of Balance Due to Snow Build up on the Rim Snow
65. Virginal Snow
66. Squeaky Snow
67. Laying Down First Tracks on a Freshly Groomed Trail Snow
68. That's It . . . I've said it for years, but this does it . . . I've had enough and I'm moving to Florida Snow
69. You Think You Have It Bad where you Live, Let Me Tell you about the Snow Here in My State Snow
70. Snalt
71. Holy Crap, Guess I Should have Buttoned my Jacket Better so I didn't End up with the snow going down my jacket and shirt Snow
72. %&^$*$

 

[DodgyNomad]

Avoid the 3 stage units in general. More moving parts, most aren't very well built.

 

[mustash29]

Seems like a gimmick to me.

I moved to CT in late '95 and saw what 102" of snowfall looked like. Moved into the house late summer '96 and bought an 8 hp 26" 2 stage MTD from the base PX for 600 when everyone else was selling them for 750. It has saved my butt many times over and has needed very little maintenance. Just oil changes, couple of shear bolts & I made a HD scraper for it out of 1/4" flat bar. Heck it still has the original belts & spark plug.

It's semi retired now. My JD 425 came with a 54" plow & 47" 2 stage blower. No more walking

 

[velvetfoot]

I've done no research; my sister told me that Consumer Reports loves the 3 stage. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Of course, I have a relatively new Ariens and I really shouldn't be thinking about a new one, should I

 

[blades]

When you have a big snow the only 2 things that are needed in a blower is power and weight- Power to blow the stuff clear and weight to keep the machine from riding up over the top. So open sprials on the first stage and a big 4 bladed impeller on the second and 10-12 or more HP. I have an old school Simplicity around a 28" wide by 24 high 8 hp eng. ( which now days would be about equal to 12 as the way they are rated was changed) It will chug through 30" snow and toss it at least 20 feet + depending in the snow type The whole unit is mechanical as such it is repairable - I would not give a rats a.. for electric shoot rotation because I darn well know it is full of plastic gears and they do not do well in artic weather. Now a poly shoot isn't to bad - less sticking of snow until it gets beat up then it is worse than steel. I do commercial snow removal- one the best little units I have had the pleasure to use is the Toro 3650 or its predecessor 2000x Around 6 hp . Now these are 2 stroke which ya can't get any more ( frigin EPA bull....) so I do not know how the 4 strokes stack up other than they weigh in at about 20+ pounds more in the same size single stage which I do not like as we are tossing these in and out of the trucks, quote " these things seem to gain weight as the day wears on" from one of my helpers. I have used these to clear truck dock pits of blown packed tight snow when the plows can't get a bite to back drag the snow out. So a big 2 stage is not always the only option.
Just my take I do not think highly of the semi 3 stage units for the consumer market. I am not a fan of MTD either. I can forsee problems in that central feed auger to the impeller ( likely the gear box and maybe over feeding the impeller in some types of snow).

 

[velvetfoot]

I have the toro ccr 2450 which is also a single stage two stroke. I did notice that the replacement, I suppose, in HD was a four stroke with electric start-yes I can imagine them being heavier. I use mine for sidewalks and the deck-rotor doesn't hurt the wood.

For me, a 3 stager would be primary snow removal machine.

I'm noticing my current Ariens leaves more 'snow turds' in its wake compared to the old one.

 

[JRHAWK9]

3 stage is all marketing BS. Throwing distance and bucket width are also more marketing than actual performance gauges. What matters to me is the ability to move a large VOLUME of snow. Bucket width is meaningless if the impeller can't remove the accumulating snow fast enough in order to avoid it piling up in front of the bucket.....turning the snow blower into a snow pusher. Of course you need the power to be able to spin a 14" impeller stuffed with snow fast enough to achieve decent throwing distance, but throwing distance in itself doesn't mean anything. I've been down that road before with my old "Husqvarna" (it's not a Husky, as it's made by the same company who makes all sorts of cheap blowers). I have since moved on to a Ariens Pro 32, which has a 14" impeller, and it's snow throughput is MUCH greater than that of my old Husky with the 12" impeller.

Here's a good thread from a guy who went from a Simplicity (14" impeller) to a Honda with a 12" impeller. He thought something was wrong with it because it couldn't move the quantity of snow his Simplicity could.

More info:

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...-hs1332tas-biting-off-more-than-can-chew.html

 

[JRHAWK9]

Now these are 2 stroke which ya can't get any more ( frigin EPA bull....) so I do not know how the 4 strokes stack up

the 4 stroke single stages are actually doing much better than those 2 stroke ones. 4 strokes have a MUCH wider power band and torque band, while two stokes are extremely peaky and suck at doing anything which require a broad torque band. Don't get me wrong, I like 2 stokes, as I used to race moto-x bikes back in the day, but the torquier 4 stroke is where it's at for snowblowers.

Here's my single stage Ariens Path Pro in action from a few years ago, it has a 208cc 4 stroke.





Here's my LED upgrade on my Ariens Pro 32:

 

[DodgyNomad]

the 4 stroke single stages are actually doing much better than those 2 stroke ones. 4 strokes have a MUCH wider power band and torque band, while two stokes are extremely peaky and suck at doing anything which require a broad torque band. Don't get me wrong, I like 2 stokes, as I used to race moto-x bikes back in the day, but the torquier 4 stroke is where it's at for snowblowers.

Not sure I'd agree with your 2-4 stroke assessment. Doing much better, hp for hp, and weight for weight, I'd disagree.

I have a couple of older Gilson 8 and 10 horse walk behinds, but mostly use Simplicity single stage on my 20 horse DLX tractor.

But the favorite, most underrated little blower I have is a 5 horse, 2 stroke snapper. These were only available at your local lawn and garden center, and were about 600, 15 years ago. All metal, single stage, metal auger with rubber belts bolted to it. Belt drive. One speed, so governed. They will throw snow about 18 feet. Outwork any 4 stroke blower I've had or worked on up to 8 horse.

The weight, and the lack of complexity of them is hard to beat.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Not sure I'd agree with your 2-4 stroke assessment. Doing much better, hp for hp, and weight for weight, I'd disagree.

I have a couple of older Gilson 8 and 10 horse walk behinds, but mostly use Simplicity single stage on my 20 horse DLX tractor.

But the favorite, most underrated little blower I have is a 5 horse, 2 stroke snapper. These were only available at your local lawn and garden center, and were about 600, 15 years ago. All metal, single stage, metal auger with rubber belts bolted to it. Belt drive. One speed, so governed. They will throw snow about 18 feet. Outwork any 4 stroke blower I've had or worked on up to 8 horse.

The weight, and the lack of complexity of them is hard to beat.

Maybe the ones I've used and have seen used where crappy then. I just remember having to constantly move them into the snow, pull them back and repeat because they didn't have the torque to fluidly move through decent depths of snow. They would rev and bog down as you moved them in and out of the snow piles.

Will totally agree on the weight and lack of complexity.

 

[velvetfoot]

It'd be nice if someone who actually owned a 3 stage snowblower would comment, but I guess they're probably so new that not too many people have them.

 

[JRHAWK9]

It'd be nice if someone who actually owned a 3 stage snowblower would comment, but I guess they're probably so new that not too many people have them.

They have been out a few years now....

Really wish these videos were still up. Showed how crappy the 3 stages work.

Also, keep in mind Cub Cadets are nothing but MTD. Just like Husqvarna blowers are nothing but an AYP built blower like those cheap Poulan Pro ones found at Home Depot.

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...on/12642-3-stage-vs-2stage-video-i-found.html

 

[velvetfoot]

That same thread had a video from Cub Cadet. It claims 3 stage design is patented.

 

[JRHAWK9]

It's up to you obviously, but get yourself a good blower and not an MTD special. Stick with Ariens, Simplicity, Honda, Toro or Yamaha. MTD and AYP make most of the rest you see out there, and they are all made cheaper.

Just because it's patented doesn't mean it's a good design...lol It's a gimmick by a bargain basement company trying to entice people with something "new", plain and simple.

 

[blades]

any blower will bog if you move it fast enough into the white stuff. 2 stage advantage is breaking up the compacted snow and moving it to the impeller. That also cuts down your forward speed. Single stage is not the ticket for really dense snow but typically most single stage units top out at around 6 hp. I have never seen a single stage- consumer orientated- over 6hp . On the other hand take a look a the single stage units affixed to the front of old locomotives. HP is where its at.

 

[JRHAWK9]

any blower will bog if you move it fast enough into the white stuff.

It's not the bogging, it's the inability to get rid of the snow it takes in at the pace you are moving. This leads to spillage over the sides and the bucket acting more like a plow. Better designs allow for higher volumes of snow to be moved and therefore faster walking speeds are possible. I'm a tall guy with 36" inseam, I can't stand having to walk at a snails pace because a POS blower can't get rid of the snow it takes in fast enough. My old Husky (made by AYP) wouldn't bog, the snow would just pile up in front and spill over the sides because the impeller system wasn't designed to move the quantity of snow I wanted it to move based on the speed I wanted to go. My new Ariens Pro 32 allows me to walk faster without the spillage. It simply gets rid of more snow. That guy in the link below had the same issue from when he went from a blower capable of moving large volumes of snow to one which couldn't. I get that most people this is not an issue, but it bugged me enough that I actually sold my 2 year old "Husky" after I figured out what the bottle neck was and bought something better designed for what I wanted it for.

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...-hs1332tas-biting-off-more-than-can-chew.html

 

[blades]

I am not disagreeing- just got to have the hp to spin those bigger impellers- You pick the machine to match the job. That is the reason I have the big Simplicity, course it does weigh in at 200 or more pounds, it is big and bulky and not condusive to quickly being employed but it has it place every so often. Same with the 24x24 bucket on a 2 stage 5 hp toro I have. Again I am doing commercial stuff and I do not want to be hauling a trailer of blowers around. There are times where I will clear the lot and then come back with the 2 stage blower for particular area . Couple years back we got a 14" storm + drifting. In some places drifts were 10ft deep Opened up what we could as fast as possible then came back with other equipment for the rest of it. Might even have to use them this Fri- Sat. Not sure what we will get dropped on us other than about 8-12" worth last I looked. Someone must have ticked off Mother Nature this year as compared to the last several.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Here's a link in which somebody had the same question.

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ion/65906-3-stage-vs-2-stage-performance.html

 

[velvetfoot]

Just one person in that thread had one and he hadn't used it yet.

 

[JRHAWK9]

I guess, to me, this really isn't about 2 stage vs 3 stage. It's about a quality blower vs not so much. The MTD's fall into the not-so-much category. There's a reason why the quality blower manufacturers don't make a gimmicky 3 stage. There's no reason for it when a properly designed 2 stage will outperform it. I'm just trying to help ya, but you are welcome to drink the cool-aide if you want

 

[jatoxico]

I do commercial snow removal- one the best little units I have had the pleasure to use is the Toro 3650 or its predecessor 2000x Around 6 hp . Now these are 2 stroke which ya can't get any more ( frigin EPA bull....)

I'm with you on the 2 stroke Toros. I forget exactly which model I have off hand (pretty sure it is the 3650) but I bought at a hardware store 10-12 yrs ago for around $500 IIRC. That is one bad little machine. Single speed, single stage, throws just about anything and far, does slush which my 2 stage isn't good at and weighs practically nothing. I don't like to use on chunked up icy stuff just because it beats up the paddle. My two stage is an older Craftsman. Solidly built with true trans not that crappy rubber disk that MTD loves so well. It does well especially with those frozen chunks and the auger housing is a bit taller which has been good since we've had more big snows recently than years past. But if I could have only one I think I'd take the Toro.