30-NCs and random post reading sensory overload

[NickW]

So why do I read so many random posts here? Because I'm always learning something!

I was reading a recent post about NC-13's and the OP talked about all the holes in them and the NC-30's and how there's been lots of posts about it. What? Now, I have the Summers Heat 50SNC30. What's the difference to the Englander NC30? Looked behind the front legs on mine and lo-and-behold....holes! Didn't find anything about where the 3rd air intake is though. And what's the "doghouse"? Where do the holes behind the legs go to? OMG! I am having a serious wood stove sensory overload! Love the stove, but other posts talk about 24hr burn times in the BK's... WHAT!?! I need pretty serious heat when it's cold out (lots of sqft, not great air sealing). When my wood stove addiction forces me to replace it, will a catalyst stove give enough heat and longer burn times?

Arghh! Not even a year in and I'm looking for something even better!?!?

 

[Highbeam]

So why do I read so many random posts here? Because I'm always learning something!

I was reading a recent post about NC-13's and the OP talked about all the holes in them and the NC-30's and how there's been lots of posts about it. What? Now, I have the Summers Heat 50SNC30. What's the difference to the Englander NC30? Looked behind the front legs on mine and lo-and-behold....holes! Didn't find anything about where the 3rd air intake is though. And what's the "doghouse"? Where do the holes behind the legs go to? OMG! I am having a serious wood stove sensory overload! Love the stove, but other posts talk about 24hr burn times in the BK's... WHAT!?! I need pretty serious heat when it's cold out (lots of sqft, not great air sealing). When my wood stove addiction forces me to replace it, will a catalyst stove give enough heat and longer burn times?

Arghh! Not even a year in and I'm looking for something even better!?!?

I have a 24 hour burning cat stove in the house and a no BS nc30 in the shop.

There are 4 air inlet holes to the nc30, three of which are fixed size and only one is adjustable with the intake control. Still, my nc30 is very controllable. Works great for a hot burner. I can reload every 3 hours several times per day.

Two very different machines.

 

[NickW]

Where are the other holes? The main one in back that is controlled, the two behind the front legs, where else?

I get pretty good burn time and still have good coals after a full load overnight burn (8-10) hours. At least 3 hours of good secondary's, then 6 hours of coaling. Right now (sunny days around 40) I make a mid size softwood fire in the am, another early afternoon, another early evening to give a good coal base for the full hardwood load overnight. When it's really cold it's more bigger hardwood fires - 3 per day and I keep the electric baseboards from kicking in, so it's all good.

I'm wondering if a catalyst stove burning in the mid range to keep the house warm enough would be more efficient (less wood, more consistent heat, longer burn times). I hear about 24hr burn times on low, but don't know that it'd be enough output. Poor air circulation in the house doesn't help.

 

[Highbeam]

If you need the heat, you need to burn the wood. The cat stove is more efficient but not enough so at higher outputs to matter much.

The fourth hole is a big rectangle right above the round 3” inlet pipe. It’s on the very back center bottom corner of the stove body. Think it’s like 1”x2” and feeds the secondary tubes.

Three full loads in an nc30 per day is a decent amount of wood for keeping a house warm. Rather than switch out stoves to save one of those loads per day I would suggest improving the house to lose less heat.

 

[NickW]

Thanks for the input Highbeam. I'll be poking around looking at the holes in the morning when she's a little less hot.

3 full loads is only on the coldest (below 0 all day, well into negatives overnight) windiest days with little sun. Usually once "real" winter hits but it's only "reasonably" cold (highs around 20, overnight single digits) I get by with the full overnight load and a couple mid size loads during the day. I do plan on some efficiency improvements during a remodel in a few years.

This stove is way better than the old smoke dragon was. Uses less, heats better, and softwoods are useful during shoulder season and daytime fires. I am tracking my wood usage closely. I used to go through 5-7 full cords of hardwood. I am thinking it'll be about 4 mixed cords with the new stove. Only time will tell.

This years wood should help too. I have beech and sugar maple to supplement my normal ash on the cold overnights and it's all better seasoned than previous years. Working on getting 3 years ahead. Have enough css for this year & 2021/2022 and working on 2022/2023. Hopefully will have 2023/2024 css by spring. I gather and css all winter long as time and weather allow.

 

[NickW]

Yep, rectangular hole in the bottom center at the back...

So a couple of new questions...

Highbeam - in your first post in this thread, you said you reload every 3 hours several times a day. Then in your last post you said 3 full loads in a day is a lot (for me). So I deduce (because I'm quite the Sherlock ) that the every 3 hours you reload is not "full loads" and you have very robust coals on reload?

I find that 3-5 pieces of wood is the minimum to get any secondaries to fire, but also tend to let my coal bed burn down to a stt of 150-200 or I'd be roasted out. If you've seen some other of my posts about warm restarts you know I have had occasional struggles. I have 3 1/2' of vertical double wall stovepipe, then about 4' horizontal stovepipe to tee, then 20' insulated liner. Drafts really well once heated up, but I am surprised that I can never choke it all the way down without killing it after finding the extra holes. It might take it an hour in for an hour or 2 on a full size load but I'd have a pile of cold charcoal a few hours later... Starting to wonder if I'd be better off during the day reloading sooner with less wood and not worrying about getting secondaries for a more consistent heat. Kinda feel that's not using the technology as intended... Or maybe treating the warm restarts more like a cold one.

The wheels are turning with new (to me) things to try...

Also, using my brilliant detective mind, I take it your "shop" is not fully heated 24/7 and the Nc30 gets the temp up fairly quickly but needs regular smaller reloads to maintain a semi steady temp without heating yourself out?

 

[Mech e]

I find that 3-5 pieces of wood is the minimum to get any secondaries to fire, but also tend to let my coal bed burn down to a stt of 150-200 or I'd be roasted out.

After establishing a coal bed, I find that I can maintain secondary combustion by adding a single split or round every 3 hours or so. In doing this I maintain a STT of about 400.

 

[Highbeam]

Yep, rectangular hole in the bottom center at the back...

So a couple of new questions...

Highbeam - in your first post in this thread, you said you reload every 3 hours several times a day. Then in your last post you said 3 full loads in a day is a lot (for me). So I deduce (because I'm quite the Sherlock ) that the every 3 hours you reload is not "full loads" and you have very robust coals on reload?

I find that 3-5 pieces of wood is the minimum to get any secondaries to fire, but also tend to let my coal bed burn down to a stt of 150-200 or I'd be roasted out. If you've seen some other of my posts about warm restarts you know I have had occasional struggles. I have 3 1/2' of vertical double wall stovepipe, then about 4' horizontal stovepipe to tee, then 20' insulated liner. Drafts really well once heated up, but I am surprised that I can never choke it all the way down without killing it after finding the extra holes. It might take it an hour in for an hour or 2 on a full size load but I'd have a pile of cold charcoal a few hours later... Starting to wonder if I'd be better off during the day reloading sooner with less wood and not worrying about getting secondaries for a more consistent heat. Kinda feel that's not using the technology as intended... Or maybe treating the warm restarts more like a cold one.

The wheels are turning with new (to me) things to try...

Also, using my brilliant detective mind, I take it your "shop" is not fully heated 24/7 and the Nc30 gets the temp up fairly quickly but needs regular smaller reloads to maintain a semi steady temp without heating yourself out?

The stove is capable of eating consecutive full loads every three hours. I did a whole photo documentary one time to prove it! Some people didn’t realize just how much fuel these things can eat. That’s what I do for maximum output but it is a huge amount of heat in a home. 3.5 cubic feet, 6 times a day, is 21 cubes a day or over one cord per week. The stove can do it.

At full buggy I can load a full load to the roof every 3 hours. Like 10 splits. I burn softwoods so the coals are not too bad, and the stove is being run at max output so the coals burn down pretty well in those three hours. Coals can really buildup with hardwoods or if you don’t let them burn down between loads. It’s a wood hog at 750 and efficiency must be lower at full output than when running at more normal temperatures.

This is in a very well insulated but large shop. Even the slab has 2” of foam all around. When a space like this gets cold it takes a lot to heat it up. Once it’s warm I can use the nc30 more like a house stove and stretch reloads out to 2-3 per day just to maintain the temperature. It’s not kept warm all the time, but because of the insulation doesn’t cool fast and never gets as cold as the outside air. We’ve been in the 20s outside the last 4 nights and I haven’t burned since Sunday. It’s mid 50s in the shop.

The nc30 stove, despite all of these holes, is very easy to control and I can never use the fully shut setting. I don’t know how it passed emissions tests because it’s easy to make this thing smoke. It tested very clean. In fact, much cleaner than my fancy cat stove which I can also make smoke by shutting the air control.

I have burned other noncat stoves that could not be “snuffed” by closing the intake. The minimum setting was hotter than I wanted. Not cool.

 

[NickW]

All very interesting to my journey... thank you!

I've been playing with making sure I have a really good bed of coals before the overnight load to get everything charred, then getting the air shut down a little sooner than last year to extend the burn time. Last year I was waiting for stt of 450, then shutting it down in stages. On a full hardwood load I'd hit 700 or higher which just seems too danged hot (still thinking like a smoke dragon guy) and would burn the load too fast. This year I'm starting to cut the air at 350-400 and haven't been peaking much over 650. Stays in that nice 500-550 stt cruising range way longer.

When I don't have the good coal bed I can get the center charred, secondaries firing strongly, and stt up; but it snuffs when I try to shut it down. I believe this is because the secondaries and uncharred wood are fighting over the oxygen and neither gets enough.

Been spot checking warm wood on a fresh split - silver maple 14-16%, ash 14-25%, sugar maple 18-22%, cherry 16-22%.; some is a little higher than ideal and I've had a couple sizzle, but not many. I think as I get ahead on the supply it'll get better year to year by not having to heat moisture out before it'll burn well. I'm going to bring a bigger chunk of the beech in to warm up and spot check it tomorrow on a fresh split.

 

[NickW]

I tried Mech e's suggestion today and thought it worked pretty well. 2 small & 1 med size silver maple was good for about 2 1/2 hrs. 1 large cherry wasn't as successful, but I let it cool off too much before putting it in. Will be a good daytime temp maintenance program with some wood chips to one side...

 

[jetsam]

So why do I read so many random posts here? Because I'm always learning something!

I was reading a recent post about NC-13's and the OP talked about all the holes in them and the NC-30's and how there's been lots of posts about it. What? Now, I have the Summers Heat 50SNC30. What's the difference to the Englander NC30? Looked behind the front legs on mine and lo-and-behold....holes! Didn't find anything about where the 3rd air intake is though. And what's the "doghouse"? Where do the holes behind the legs go to? OMG! I am having a serious wood stove sensory overload! Love the stove, but other posts talk about 24hr burn times in the BK's... WHAT!?! I need pretty serious heat when it's cold out (lots of sqft, not great air sealing). When my wood stove addiction forces me to replace it, will a catalyst stove give enough heat and longer burn times?

Arghh! Not even a year in and I'm looking for something even better!?!?

Depends on your BTU need, but I find with the BK that I almost never need a big raging fire because I have low even heat all the time, not a big spike that trails off and dies after 8 hours.

You can heat just as well with your NC30, but it's not as convenient.

Honestly, given my manly need to poke at the fire and see big roaring flames, I might have been a better candidate for a tube stove, but sometimes I do really appreciate the freedom to do 14 hours at work and come back to a third of a load still burning.

I haven't yet had a year where I didn't say (to the stove) "DAMN, stove, how do you do that?", because it sometimes seems like magic to a kid who grew up with pre-EPA heaters. We used to make sure all the faucets were dripping every night so the pipes wouldn't freeze... and now I get annoyed if I misadjust the stove's thermostat and it's 68 in the foyer when I get back from work. (You set the thermostat for firebox temp, not room temp, so the 'right' setting varies depending on the weather.)

 

[NickW]

Good news! Biggest split of beech I could find on the outside pile for next year was 18-20% on a warm fresh split (brought it in yesterday, just split it), so the stuff I moved into the garage 2 months ago with a fan on it should be good.

Kinda sick, but I can't wait for some super cold weather to see just how good beech is. The couple of chunks burned last year after speed seasoning inside seemed to throw a ton of heat and burn forever.