30NC Install

[concourspilot]

Greetings, I've relied on this forum as a source for over a year leading me to choose to install a 30NC in the living area of our Colorado home that sits at 9200ft elevation. First, thank you to everyone who posts and shares information and experience, I know there are a few rock stars among 30NC installers and owners and I hope they can help me along as I make the journey to install mine. I got as many answers as I could here but as most would I still have a few.

A little background, I sold off 2 pellet stoves that I didn't use much and they are luckily financing most of the install. Our home has no furnace, our source of heat is a wood burning insert also located in the living area of our open floor plan with 20ft ceilings. We enjoy it and it keeps the house a nice 65-75 on days in the 20's but we want and need a longer burn time and heating cycle a large metal stove can give.

Were I'm at, I have measured and laid out where I plan to build the hearth and I'll be coming back here when that begins for help on construction techniques and materials. I've chosen my flu material and made a cardboard template of the stove dimensions to see how it fits into my space. My Heart will be about 10-12" above the current finished floor, and I'll need approximately 113" of black stove pipe before reaching a 36" support box mounted on a cathedral ceiling/roof with no attic. I chose a 36" box based on a steep roof pitch and needing to keep the black pipe 12" from the combustable wood ceiling. I plan to have decorative metal with a 1" air gap mounted to the wall behind the stove that will extend about 12" higher than the top of the stove, and install rear and side shields on the stove. So on to the questions.....

1. I'll attach pictures but I have a wall mounted TV about 40" to the right of the front stove corner. Is that to Close?

2. A Love seat is about 22" away from the proposed front left corner of the stove. I can move it back to about 30". Is that still to close?

3. with the protective metal on the wall behind the stove can I have the rear corners closer then the 12" depicted in the stove manual? The manual also mentions 2/3 reduction in distance for non combustable materials. This would help me utilize the old stove pipe ceiling location without as much worry about pipe turns.

4. I planned for black single wall (Dura Black) form stove to support box, is this okay or should I transition to double wall before the support box.

5. Do I need the support box or can a double wall such as Duratech pass through the ceiling since there is no attic? I seen one diagram that appeared like this is why I ask

6. Is there a way to calculate chimney hight to be within the 2 foot above any roof in 10' rule using the roof pitch so I can have the correct material on hand?

7. What is the distance of the flu nipple on the stove from the back of the stove? It seems like Englander should have published this

8. I planned for Duratech/Duraplus flu components but was surprised that I'll pay more than what the stove costs at Northline, Home Depot saves me about $200. Is there another source or material I should consider?

I'm sure I'll have more....go easy on me

 

[concourspilot]

In the photos the green tape represents the hearth outline the cardboard is the stove. Yes the speakers will be relocated its the TV and couch I have concerns about

 

[BobUrban]

Ok. I don't have all your answers but I do have one. In the photo that is a 30nc and the tv is exactly 40" away. I was told by the person who sold me the tv to put a candle on the tv. If it melts your too close. My set up like this has been running like this for 4 years without any problems. Others miliage my vary. As far as the couch. Even a save distance for combustion does not necessarily mean safe from heat. That leather would likely suffer a shortened quality lifespan that close to the heat.

Use the best chimney system you can afford. Think of your savings on the stove cost incentive to invest more in a chimney. Chimneys are the link to life in the circle of fire. Don't opt for the weakest Link. Just my opinion. Ironically and sad. If you zoom in on the television you see that is a tragic family death story by carbon monoxide. We had a wind storm last week that had a lot of power out and this is a result of some form of alternative heat. I have Duravent from stove to chimney cap on mine.

 

[concourspilot]

Thanks Bob, very helpful and thats a nice install you have. I've thought about putting a small wall such as you have on the end near the couch to deflect some heat. Is your stack double wall from the stove up? As an A/V pro that TV install would drive me nuts, if you need help with that let me know.

 

[begreen]

Installations at high altitudes need additional chimney to compensate. Just how much will depend on the altitude. How much chimney after the support box are you planning on adding? Definitely use double-wall stove pipe to connect to the chimney. Besides having reduced clearances and higher quality pipe, it will also help draft. Modern stoves like the 30NC need decent draft to support a good burn and in order to pull air through the secondary air system. At sea level this is at least 15ft, but that can go up to 20' or more depending on the installation altitude.

Also note the hearth insulation requirements for this stove are R=1.5 and plan accordingly. Regarding the sofa, 22" would be too close for my comfort, but it is just within acceptable side clearance requirements. You can not take the stove closer than 12" to corner clearances with proper NFPA wall shields.

 

[BobUrban]

I would love to have better from an AV standpoint but not so much that I will likely ever do anything about it.

Yes that is dbl wall stainless to the ceiling and class A to the cap. I have roughly 16' straight up but as already mentioned you may find that not enough up at higher altitudes. I'm at about 600' or roughly 8500' below you

 

[concourspilot]

Thank you Begreen, I plan for 6' of chimney above the support box because of the steep pitch on the roof. What do you think of the idea of having a pony wall even if it's made of decorated metal on the couch end that extends at least to the top of the stove? This pony wall would likely also be about same height as the back of the couch.

 

[concourspilot]

I'm looking at just under 10ft of indoor and 6ft above the support box. My pellet stove worked fine but I have a feeling that was a different animal in terms of draft. My fireplace insert has roughly 20ft and drafts very well. How do you think I'll fare? Is there some sort of calculator I could reference? Looking at other chimneys in the area some on single story homes I see none that appear to be extended to far above the roof.

I would love to have better from an AV standpoint but not so much that I will likely ever do anything about it.

Yes that is dbl wall stainless to the ceiling and class A to the cap. I have roughly 16' straight up but as already mentioned you may find that not enough up at higher altitudes. I'm at about 600' or roughly 8500' below you

 

[gnatboy911]

I am in the middle of an NC13 install. After months of research, I purchased my chimney kit from home depot. The manufactured home kit, since that is what my house is. However, I found the cheapest DVL (double wall pipe) at Northline Express. I bought the longer telescoping pipe, plus two 45 degree elbows so I could get enough clearance to the wall.

In addition to the chimney pipe included in my kit, I'm going to need another 12 inch section to get me the minimum height above the roof (hopefully it drafts well) Right now, Home Depot is running some great deals on chimney pipe, etc. Best I've found online.

 

[BobUrban]

I believe the Duravent chimney comes in 3' sections so it is either this or that. As in... If you get it all set and don't feel you have enough draft you add 3 more feet. Not tough to do if you can get up there.

 

[begreen]

Thank you Begreen, I plan for 6' of chimney above the support box because of the steep pitch on the roof. What do you think of the idea of having a pony wall even if it's made of decorated metal on the couch end that extends at least to the top of the stove? This pony wall would likely also be about same height as the back of the couch.

A heat shield wall is fine as long as the 1" spacers are non combustible and it is open top and bottom by an inch so that air can convect freely behind it. It should extend at least 6" higher than the stove top.

Modern stoves need stronger draft than old stoves. Having a straight up chimney will help. You can try 16', but be prepared to add more chimney if secondary burning is lackluster. The chimney pipe gets braced at every 5ft. above where it exits the roof. If you are in an area of very heavy snows you might also want to consider putting a cricket (snow diverter) above the pipe.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Welcome..congrats. It is a great stove and it is keeping my home nice and warm.

I went with the single wall pipe. I don't regret it. It looks nice, and it cost about 20% of what a double wall would cost. I have a very similar setup as you. High ceilings without bends.

 

[begreen]

The OP is at a much higher altitude and with just adequate chimney height. I would do double-wall to aid draft. It's also a higher quality stainless pipe inside which should last much longer. And lastly, they may need to use double-wall for the closer clearances.

 

[Highbeam]

we want and need a longer burn time and heating cycle a large metal stove can give.

So I own an NC30 and while I do agree it is a great value, I don't know that you are going to get what you want from it. Like your insert, it's just a steel non-cat stove and will burn about the same amount of time. This stove will consume a full load of decent wood in as little as three hours or up to 8 if you are willing to count coals as burning. It's not a cat stove, so 30 hour burns aren't going to happen.

 

[Gibraltar IV]

Regarding the "distance of the flu nipple on the stove from the back of the stove," I am also in the middle of a 30NC install so I had to measure that distance when planning my install. Because I started my build while the new stove was being shipped or was still crated, I researched this forum and found one reference of 4.5" from the back of the stove, and some people call it the "flue outlet" or "drove collar" or whatever. I ultimately did my own measurement and found the distance from the back of the stove to the back of the 6" flue opening is exactly 4 inches on my NC30 that was manufactured in January 2016. Or you could look at it as about 7" from the center of the opening to the back of the stove.

 

[concourspilot]

Ive also been comparing HD with Northline and even Amazon. HD unfortunately doesn't seem to carry the Durvent, only Dueaplus otherwise they do appear to be cheaper on several things like Durablack, and supporting pieces. Amazon is actually pretty good on their prices, saving me about $200 over Northline. Any other place I should price shop?

I am in the middle of an NC13 install. After months of research, I purchased my chimney kit from home depot. The manufactured home kit, since that is what my house is. However, I found the cheapest DVL (double wall pipe) at Northline Express. I bought the longer telescoping pipe, plus two 45 degree elbows so I could get enough clearance to the wall.

In addition to the chimney pipe included in my kit, I'm going to need another 12 inch section to get me the minimum height above the roof (hopefully it drafts well) Right now, Home Depot is running some great deals on chimney pipe, etc. Best I've found online.

 

[concourspilot]

I was hoping for some heat output at 8hrs or close to it, enough to get through a night with quick restart on refuel in the morning

So I own an NC30 and while I do agree it is a great value, I don't know that you are going to get what you want from it. Like your insert, it's just a steel non-cat stove and will burn about the same amount of time. This stove will consume a full load of decent wood in as little as three hours or up to 8 if you are willing to count coals as burning. It's not a cat stove, so 30 hour burns aren't going to happen.

 

[concourspilot]

Begreen would you recommend using the double durablack/DVL for the interior? I was mainly considering the single wall at least in a lower section (48"-68" telescoping section) because I was under the impression I could gain some heating off of the pipe. You have convinced me otherwise because of the draft concerns. BTW I'm now designing the system around 18ft of pipe, will be above the roof. I have another issue with the ceiling support and will post a photo and question separately in this thread. Thanks

The OP is at a much higher altitude and with just adequate chimney height. I would do double-wall to aid draft. It's also a higher quality stainless pipe inside which should last much longer. And lastly, they may need to use double-wall for the closer clearances.

 

[begreen]

The stove is for heat, not the pipe. It is more efficient than old school stoves that sent a lot of heat up the flue. Draft is the engine of the stove and that is controlled by the flue system. Keep the flue gases hotter and the flue will draft stronger and cleaner. Long runs of single wall are not recommended.

An overnight fire should be entirely doable for most days if the stove is sized right for the home and reasonably well insulated. On extreme cold days, reloading may be more frequent. It will also depend on the fuel you are burning. If you can get high mountain spruce I have heard that is quite dense and burns well.

 

[concourspilot]

So here is my next obstacle to design and plan around. There was a pellet stove in this location and I wish to use the location of the old support box, making it larger for the new box
instead of a separate hole in my roof and ceiling. The issue with this is my preliminary measuring puts the new ceiling support connection point about 24" to the rear of the stoves flu collar. Should I use two 45deg pieces to make this up and should it be done at the highest point? Will that type of sweep require any support brackets?

 

[begreen]

Looks like you will have to use double-wall pipe just to stay within clearance requirements. Single-wall requires 18", double-wall needs 6". Most folks do the offset up high. Each joint should have 3 screws 120º apart. That will keep the stove pipe rigid without extra support.

 

[concourspilot]

Thanks, very helpful information you've been providing and I'm ready to order all the pieces. I just cant seem to locate a double wall stove top adaptor. DVL requires 8" clearance to ceiling, would this also mean that I have to have my support box extending 8" below the finished ceiling? I plan on using the 24" deep box which measures 12" square placing the ID of the DVL pipe about 1.5" from the edge of the support box.

Looks like you will have to use double-wall pipe just to stay within clearance requirements. Single-wall requires 18", double-wall needs 6". Most folks do the offset up high. Each joint should have 3 screws 120º apart. That will keep the stove pipe rigid without extra support.

 

[gnatboy911]

Ive also been comparing HD with Northline and even Amazon. HD unfortunately doesn't seem to carry the Durvent, only Dueaplus otherwise they do appear to be cheaper on several things like Durablack, and supporting pieces. Amazon is actually pretty good on their prices, saving me about $200 over Northline. Any other place I should price shop?

Northline was the cheapest for DVL pipe. I went with the double wall telescoping. I also needed to add two 45 degree elbows to give me the clearance out from the wall that I needed. Once you get over $129 they give you free shipping which was nice also.

I read your post about the DVL stove adapter and realized I over looked that piece...so thank you. Here is a link to one on the northline page.
https://www.northlineexpress.com/6-dvl-adapter-section-no-damper-6dvl-ad-6733.html

If you have other things to purchase at Northline it would probably be the best place, but shipping was a little cheaper at Amazon

Here is one on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/M-G-DuraVent-...1456325389&sr=8-11&keywords=DVL+stove+adapter

A couple people on the comments section of the Northline page were saying that the adapter was fitting loosely in the top of their stove, one specifically mentioned their Englander stove. Northline recommended using some Rutland Furnace Cement to seal it up tighter, but said it wasn't absolutely necessary.

 

[Highbeam]

I was hoping for some heat output at 8hrs or close to it, enough to get through a night with quick restart on refuel in the morning

An overnight fire should be entirely doable for most days if the stove is sized right for the home and reasonably well insulated.

8 hours is very doable. That is a reasonable expectation of burn time from this stove whether it is outside on the lawn or inside a small yurt. It has nothing to do with your house size or insulation.

 

[begreen]

It has a lot with how soon one will be turning down the fire and where the air control are set to. If the stove is being asked to heat a cold barn up 20º one is going to push it a lot harder than if one is raising the temp 3-5º in a well insulated house.