A few questions from a newbie

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sconnieman

New Member
Aug 23, 2011
4
NW Wisconsin
First I want to thank all of you here for all the help that you have already given me even though this is my first post. Although things might have been easier if I never found this site, because my plan was to get an OWB like most people in my area do. Now I'm learning about boilers I never knew existed.

Second my house is 2700 sq ft, was built in 2001, and is well insulated albeit with a quite a few good windows. It's a split level with vaulted ceilings and a loft, so quite a bit of open space too. We just moved here in Feb of this year, but the lady we bought if from said she averaged between 1200 and 1500 gallons of propane a year. I figured that $3k a year would be better spent on a boiler. My in-laws live a few miles away and have 180 acres of mostly hardwoods, and said we can cut all the wood we want from there. Obviously that won't do for this year, so I'm hoping to find some seasoned wood to buy.

Anyway I'm now leaning toward an indoor gasser installed in my detached insulated garage. Already talked to the insurance agent and he said he would be fine with my plan to enclose a corner in there to install it. My main question revolves around storage, which it seems is true for most people new to this type of system. I would like to start with no storage but plan to add it in the future. Will I still be able to load the boiler in the morning and again in the evening, or is it going to function more like a wood stove and I'm going to be putting wood in it every few hours. The brands I am thinking are Eko, Empyre, and Tarm. It seems that the Empyre Elite was designed without storage in mind even though I'm sure it would be better with. I talked to a dealer in Minnesota who was using the Elite 100 to heat his hardware store, he knew it probably wouldn't keep up but tried it anyway and was impressed, but he is now switching to one of Empyre's larger outdoor gassers. He told me the elite would work great for me, but suggested thinking about the Energy King indoor wood boiler (non-gasser) because it is close to $3,000 less than the Elite.

My reasons for thinking gasification are the usual, less wood, less smoke, but I would still like the convenience of two loads a day like I would have with an OWB. Is that possible without storage? I know I need good insulated underground lines too, I learned that from reading here.

Sorry for the super long post, but thanks for all the help.
 
I'm no expert, in fact I've read so much I probably know less than someone new, but I decided on a Biomass boiler. I just got it, from New Horizons, and, although not installed, I'm impressed with the unit itself. Zenon at New Horizons should be a conversation before you buy.

I'm going storage now since I found propane tanks relatively inexpensively and that the cost to do it once will be less in total.

Good luck,

Bill
 
I dont know your budget, but you could look into a Garn. That has a large firebox that would hold a lot of wood, and built in storage. That might take care of several things that you would like in a boiler system. But they are not the least expensive option.

You could load something like the Tarm Solo Plus with wood a few times a day, and it will operate on/off, at the expense of efficiency. Adding storage, depending on the amount, enhances the efficiency and could extend the interval between loadings.

If you are looking to go with anything indoors, I wouldnt bother looking at a non-gasser boiler.

Just a thought, what about adding a woodstove to the open area of your house? It would help cut down on the propane bill, add a little ambiance to the living room, and you would get out a lot cheaper than a full boiler and underground line install...
 
I am no expert but mark as Ahona is the closest you will find to one when it come to wood boilers. He sells Vigas with storage systems.It will be well worth you time to give him a call.Empire is like walmart products.They use roll pins for the door hing and there is no adjustment.
 
Bill I know what you mean, I feel more undecided the more I read. I have looked into Biomass too and should've put them on my list.

Clarkburg, I wish I had the budget and space for a Garn. I think that would be a nice option for me if I had some more coin. I have thought of the woodstove option, but I really don't have a good place to put one in our great room. I've thought about putting one in the lower level family room too since it's an open staircase to the main level, thinking that the heat would make it's way up through there and I could just keep the forced air fan running circulating the warm air through the house. Still not a great place to put one down there either, and we have little kids to worry about touching the thing.

Henfruit, sounds good I will be giving lots of dealers calls in the next couple of weeks, so I will put him on my list.


Thanks!
 
vigas and froling are on the same playing field,almost.vigas is forced draft. froling is induced. and froling is a lot more money than a vigas.do your research.
 
I did the EKO40 boiler in the garage thing for four years and without storage. My home is not that well insulated though progress is being made in that area. (1700' older home circa late 1800's when more insulation was a bigger wood pile or another buffalo robe and a house with doors was better than a cave without one). The EKO idled a lot during the shoulder seasons but was sometimes cold (during the hard part of winter when 2.5-3 loads was needed and less than premium btu wood was being used and a source of lost btu's when the load times exceeded actual burn times and the controller kept trying to fire an empty boiler firebox. The EKO is a prolific smoker when you open the upper chamber to load before the load chamber reduces the wood to coals so you want to bear that in mind as well. The EKO is very picky about not using cold wood (in the heart of winter) as well as using dry wood too so if your heated boiler room will allow you to store a couple (or more) loads you will be better off. Learing to use the EKO saved me much expense through diverting heat and DHW costs with fossil fuels. I had to go off line with it but hope to be back with it this year. The OWB "fill in" I used last year used around 12 cords of wood and was less sophisticated to use but ltime gained between longer load times was used scrounging, splitting and buying more wood. The EKO only used 6-7 cords of wood for the entire year (summer DHW) and the OWB used 12 cords for just the heating season. I think an outdoor OR indoor gasser with built in storage should be examined before you finally lay your money down but I say that with a qualifier...find out what the real burn times and actual loads are from experienced users befroe you buy. As an aside using some of the lower density hardwoods for the shoulder seasons will help with better management of your wood lot source. Burning just premium hardwoods will eventually leave the wood lot with with nothing but low quality btu hardwoods. Dry softwoods can actually be used during the shoulder season if the mfg will not void a warranty over it.
 
If you are thinking of going with pressurized storage, it might be a good idea for you to start scrounging around for a used propane tank for storage at the outset of your project rather than later. They are not that easy to come by. It might take you some time to find one, but they are not prohibitively expensive. If you have a little time before you get your boiler it would be time well spent looking for one. I got a lead on mine (1000 gallon for $700) from a local propane distributor. You might be able to do better pricewise. Then you'll have to plumb your system only once and not have to manhandle that weight around an existing system. My 16 foot long tank did end up determining the precise location for our Tarm Solo Innova and the corner boiler room I built in my garage. I am really glad I put it in first before anything else. Having all your components in place right off will make for a more straightforward and well planned installation in my opinion. Retrofitting and remodeling is always a huge hassle and inevitably ends up wasting both your time and money.

And why I'm thinking of it start getting your wood supply cut , split and drying now if you haven't already. It taskes a long time to dry to the requirement of a gasser.

Mike
 
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