A Square Peg in a Round Hole

[BrowningBAR]

The Model 91 is also a freestanding stove and an insert. Too early in the morning to figure out if that would fit in your fireplace dimensions...

Yea, I know it's too early for this much brain power (which ain't much).
However, I just checked out model 91 and find it a beautiful and LARGE @ 4.4 cu.' wow. Why did they have to make it a cat?
I am so uneducated regarding cat stoves that I shy away from that which I don't know.
( back to the kitchen for a cup o' java...)

Eh, cats aren't a big deal. I haven't been paying too close attention to this thread, but last I checked you were trying to heat 4,000 sq ft with, I think, a decent floor plan. I would ignore the fact that it has a cat and embrace the 4.4 cu ft fire box if it fits.

Unless BeGreen felt the 91 wouldn't work in your case (he recommended the 74), I would look at getting the larger stove.

 

[HollowHill]

The new woodstove from Woodstock, Progress Hybrid, with the plinth base might fit the bill. Great introductory price. (www.woodstove.com). Good luck with whatever you choose.

Which won't fit in his fireplace.

I thought we were talking about in front of his fireplace? If so, the plinth brings the rear vent down to around 22.75 centered, which with a 6" pipe would still clear his 27" opening by 2.25", but my math or understanding of clearances may be seriously flawed...

 

[Benchwrench]

After looking at some of your guys pictures I've come to the conclusion that my FP is very short at just over 6 courses of brick high. Whereas some of you guys have 10-12 courses high.
That's my main dilemma. Additional, the lintel is just 4" above the arch opening.
I will carefully review all your guys input as to what option to choose for this existing opening, otherwise I'd have to hire a FP mason and demo out a bigger hole. (not the route I want to go)

 

[Benchwrench]

I thought we were talking about in front of his fireplace? If so, the plinth brings the rear vent down to around 22.75 centered, which with a 6" pipe would still clear his 27" opening by 2.25", but my math or understanding of clearances may be seriously flawed...

Post #39 has my arched dimensions as to width vs. height.
So far I know of one insert that would fit, but I want to research all you guys have shared.

I went to the woodstocksoapsotne.com website you recommended and it seems they will build a FP for you. They have some nice looking units.
It's my turn to do some more research.

Great day to you guys,
Bench

 

[ddddddden]

The following criteria would be ideal for a hearth mounted appliance instead of an insert;

(EDIT: it does not need to be rear venting )1. needs [not] be a Rear vented appliance ( flue no higher than 24" to centerline )

2. Somewhere around a 3.0 cu. ft. firebox, I'm looking for btu's in the vicinity of 85k-100k

wide is OK but not very deep, around 24"
( the hearth is elevated some 15" from floor and right now is only 17" deep )

Does anyone know of such an appliance?

I should be able to post a couple pictures of the FP and hearth Sunday.

Thanks guys,
Bench

If you are talking about extending your hearth out to accommodate a 24" stove, the new Woodstock would juuust about fit. . .you'd have to give it a few more inches, but you wouldn't have to worry about any other floor protection to the front, since there's no front door. (Assuming the requirements for the new stove are similar to those of their current models, 8" elevation from the floor takes care of the front clearance to combustible flooring.)


I dug up Todd's exemplary project. If you decide to bring in a mason, this is what I would do:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/56601/P22/


Best practice is to install a metal "block off plate" to seal the top of the fireplace around the stovepipe / chimney liner. If I were going to hire a mason to modify stuff, it would be to raise and seal up the top of the fireplace instead of extending the hearth.

 

[Benchwrench]

Purists beware, some images below may be too disturbing to view... you have been warned.


At all cost I wanted to accent and show off our arched masonry fireplace with a wood stove/ hearth mount as I started out looking at hearth mounts there was a problem , one; BTU output, I need a rather high rating so I narrowed it down to first the Buck 91 or Alderea T5 only to find out dimensionally they wouldn't fit. The other was due to the rather short opening nothing with a high enough BTU rating would fit the bill.
The only other option was (gulp) an insert.

Well guys I pulled the trigger on the only thing I found that would work, another Quadrafire.
I went with a 5100i -ACT
It was a very tough decision to cover such a nice arched fireplace but finding the right appliance for heating a large area which took precedent.
The PE Summit was the only other contender when it came down to the brass tacks. But with a detailed review, the Quad took the lead and won me over, (again)

The purchase of this particular unit is the very last of the ACT models Quad will ever sell from any of their warehouses. There is no longer any ACT's available from Quad any longer which makes this the very last new "ACT"from QuadraFire in the US.
Since 1990 I've owned an ACT version and am grateful that I have another. The only other way one can obtain one would be from existing stock of a dealer.

Below are a few pictures for your pleasure, please feel free to comment and point out any mistakes or just enjoy.


the begining of the end for this open burn fireplace ...yea!

I used a carbide blade which was necessary to notch the arch and refactory board giving it that nice beveled look above.

This is a Hilti diamond blade that really smoothed out the rough edges of the notched brick, however I now had a house full of brick dust even with taking all the precautions.

I ran the shop vac outside the window to help keep brick dust to a minimum however with all the dust one would never known as this red dust was EVERYWHERE

now look what you've done

It almost seemed a sin to do this to such a well built arched FP, but it was a necessary measure to heat such a large area

Hide your tools! This is the

that's responsible for all this damage. I think inhaling all that brick dust was the culprit.

Fittin' a square peg fit in a round hole.

Since the insert has a surround, the arch is going bye-bye. Behind the twin lamp is an ash dump that needs to be smoothed out with a layer of concrete

the next step was to level out the hearth and firebox using clay brick that has been shaved in order to lay flush, any cracks were dealt with using Rutland products. I also mounted the label denoting a permanently modified Fireplace, basically it says: Benchwrench was here.

In order for the insert to slide easier in and out, I bent a 22 gauge pan out of some sheet metal found at Lowe's, laid it over the brick the insert rests upon there's no need to cover the rear brick, these are used to keep the pan from migrating to the rear of the firebox

Since the chimney flue was a straight shot, the method of this install is to use rigid pipe, I chose to go with Rhino rigid liner. As far as the Flex connection between the appliance up through the smoke shelf, I went with Rhino's "Armor Flex" This stuff is the way to go! it is soooo thick and heavy a finished section of 5 feet of it weighs maybe 40 lbs. I'll have to take a snap shot of the stuff, I'm so glad I chose it as there are so many different makers of flex.

this 1/2" insulation skin was the deciding factor in choosing Rhino as their competitor only uses 1/4" , however after measuring the thickness I find it to be between 3/4" and 7/8" thick

the wrap is crimped on the ends and every 6", this 1/2" insulation offers a UL 1777 listing whereas 1/4" insulation does not give this rating.

 

[Benchwrench]

This is Armor Flex by Rhino Liner wrapped in a 1/2" foil backed insulation blanket
Armorflex is extremely heavy duty flex pipe, I bought a cheap funnel for use as a "pulling cone" however there was No pulling required as this install was a straight shot down to the smoke chamber.

I went the extra step by wrapping 30' of SS wire up and down the mesh for added measure keeping the sock in place just in case it was to get hung up while dropping it down the flue during installation.

this one foot section of rigid was a real blessing as it was needed for a few reasons.
1. it was needed for overall dimension
2. the heavy flex needed a section of rigid attached to it before it was stuffed down the chimney and 1' is much easier to handle than a 4' section of rigid along with 5' of HD flex attached to it. (did I mention how heavy the flex was?)
3. it was a needed length in the installation process for the insulation wrap that was used on each 4' section of rigid since each section of pipe was the same length as the insulation there was a loss of about a foot in overall calculation of liner needed. As each section was lowered upon the next, a loss of about 1.5" per connection was to be factored in. This allowed an exposed section of rigid needed to rivet the next section.

instead of riveting this first section of 1' rigid to the flex I used SS bolts that will support the first length of the insulation wrap. This way 25' of insulation wrap won't migrate down the length of the flex. The stainless bolts were just long enough to extend beyond the metal skin of the insulation wrap.
Also if you notice, this union was treated with furnace cement for an air tight seal.

At this point everything is now prepped and ready to install the liner and stove

 

[Benchwrench]

the scrap that was left over from building the tray seen in the fireplace will come in handy to slide the stove across the brick hearth.
The strips were just long enough to cover the edge of the pan so the stove wouldn't get hung up in the process of sliding it in there.
(not shown: I painted the tray with BBQ high temp paint so it wouldn't rust over the years as the stove rests upon it.)

I can already visualize what it will look like... BIG.
this is twice the size of my last Quadrafire stove

my friend who manages Lowe's let me use one of their hand carts which turned out to be the perfect height to the hearth
Since the stove tips the scale at 520 pounds, I removed as much as possible as to lighten the load since I was installing this by myself.

 

[tfdchief]

Benchwrench, I made a sheet metal hearth protector about like yours, back in 1982, to slide my Buck into and out of the fireplace. It has worked great for all these years. Good job and can't wait to see fire in that baby

 

[Benchwrench]

thanks for the flowers, there's a few more pics to follow, I really hope I don't have to remove this thing again.

 

[Benchwrench]

I learned how much more work it is to install rigid but I know this is the way to go.
I had to deal with an 8/12 pitch two stories up, it started out a challenge but after several trips up and down the ladder the job became more fun than dread.
The last day I was up on the roof to install the top plate, storm collar and terminate the chim cap, it was snowing!

The final product, ready for a stove to slide in place.
Roxul insulation was stuffed in the smoke chamber until I couldn't stuff another cu. inch. past the damper.
Then it was installed below the damper supported by insulation joist wire.

If you're wondering what the arrows are all about, it's used to line up the stove adapter to the threaded holes inside the stove. Instead of securing the liner with screws to the stove from the outside, there's an option to attach the adapter & liner via inside the stove with a couple 1/4 x20 hex bolts but to line it up meant to be spot on.

 

[WoodpileOCD]

Beautiful install you have going there.

 

[Benchwrench]

finally installed with the surround trim panel set, without it the job just didn't look finished. However I will miss that once nice arch.
the placement of the thermometer is incorrect in these pictures, it's much more suited and accurate on top.

I want to thank those here on Hearth.com for their input and knowledge, the search function on this site was really beneficial.
I kept this install contained in this thread so folks can see from start to finish what all was required and the difficult choice it was to eliminate the arched masonry opening. All in all it turned out great.
My next project is to install an ember pad. I think it's best to cut out the oak flooring and lay micore under whatever surface I decide to go with.
Any suggestions? slate or flagstone, perhaps? I like the rustic look

Behold, I have made fire! What you can't tell from this shot is that "new stove smell". I recommend a warm day for the first fire since it requires open windows and doors.

Baking in the paint;
This stove passes the test so far, we'll see how it heats up a large area.
Another thing regarding owning an insert, one needs to accept fan noise. I miss my old wood stove and how quiet it was.

last but not least, one of the best reasons to own a wood burning appliance, having a supply.
It also doubles as an excuse to get out of the house as well as an exercise program of turning hardwood into firewood

I don't think I have enough cut to get through this winter, especially if the temps really drop come Jan & Feb. '12
however it's been pretty mild especially compared to last year, brrr.

God Bless,
Bench

 

[tfdchief]

Man is that gorgeous! Absolutely beautiful. I don't know how it could have turned out any better. Great job, enjoy. I know I sure did enjoy the pics.

 

[dafattkidd]

I cannot imagine how anyone could have done a better job. That is really a top notch install. Congrats. And may it be a blessing to you and you family.

 

[FPX Dude]

Since you had to cut the arch, I think it looks better now with the shroud...very stunning indeed!

 

[SolarBrian]

Great install pictures! Got me excited for my install this Thursday. Enjoy the new stove!

 

[Benchwrench]

Thanks guys,
After this install so far we've solely been burning with wood which is quite an undertaking.
It has been quite a journey the past few months trying to heat this home. I was sick for several days last week so I huddled around the hearth trying to keep warm. One night when I didn't load it before bed, it got as low as 59°F. overnight while it was between 0°F.-10° outside.
It was very difficult bringing up the thermostat to a meager 63°F. by that evening.
I think it's because of lack of knowledge how to extract its full potential, and I'm sure outside temps, square footage, and a drafty house has a lot to do with it too. On top of that I've been running it at "low" with both controls shut down except during the reload process.
Still trying to figure out to feather the controls throughout the burn cycle.
Currently, I'm just about out of seasoned wood, all those piles in the pictures above are gone up in smoke already!

Here are the first real photos of this stove in action, it feels good have some heat in here.
Again, thanks guys for the flowers, I wish you guys well.

 

[dafattkidd]

Bench,
Did I miss something? why didn't you just turn on the furnace when you were sick? Wood heat is great but if you don't load the stove turn the heat on. No?

 

[Benchwrench]

'cuz I'm on a mission as well as being cheap.

Ok, here's the deal...

At our last house we were on gas that was only used for heating water. At this place last year before this install the natural gas bill for only the months to heat hovered over $300, and in my book that's a waste of moolah and haven't been used to seeing that kind of bill before because for the past 19 years we've solely been heating with wood in our previous home and wanted to do the same here. However, everything has changed, climate is considerably colder, and the stove we used to have was rather large for the home size in a milder climate. So this is still a learning curve trying to do the same by solely heating with wood once again.

The thermostat's set as a back up but it's got to get pretty chilly in order for it to come to life. Last night it felt very warm in here. yea!
Basically the thermostat's for keeping an eye on the overall effectiveness of this wood burning system that still needs to get dialed in.
The ceiling fan seems to regulate temps from upstairs to downstairs quite well as it keeps downstairs much warmer when it's in use.

In other words, I'm on a mission to try and get back some of my install investment which obviously is more important than warmth. I figure it will take about 5-6 years to recoup or achieve the "break even" point based upon the overall cost of a log splitter, rigid liner and the Quadrafire unit itself.

Anyways that's my scenario, warm wishes to you all,
Bench

 

[Wade A.]

Go man, go!

I for one would not mourn the loss of that fireplace arch. On noticing how running bond doesn't line up above it, it would have driven me nuts everytime I looked at it. Amateur job....where is the pride anymore? Obviously, you've got plenty, based on your attention to detail in your install. Nice work. Very nice.

 

[dafattkidd]

Bench, I get it buddy. Good luck with it. Looks like you're off to a good start. I'm all for 100% woodburning, but at $300/ month that's about $10/day to run the furnace. If you run your furnace for 1 hour/ day that's like an extra $12/ month to keep the heat a little more even and take a bit of strain off of you. You do what works for you. I just thought I'd put some crappy math out there to take some pressure off of you. you either way it looks like you're doing great with you new quad.