About to buy new wood stove!

[boisblancboy]

I am about to buy a new wood stove for the new house I am about done building. Now I know there are all kinds of different wood stoves, models, makes and tons of accessories, but I had a couple random questions that i hoped you could help me with. My house is 1600 sq ft. Is it better to have a stove that is rated to heat a 1600 sq ft home or one a little larger like for 2000 sq ft?

Now a different random question. The place I have rented until I get into my new house has a nice small woodstove which works well to heat that house but here is my question. No matter how choked down i have that stove its temp seems to run accordingly with how much wood I have in it. If I have it full of wood, about 6 pieces or so, and have it choked down, it will run at about 1200 or a little hotter which tends to heat the house up to much. Are the newer woods stoves all like this or can you get them to run at whatever temp you like? Hope that was explained clearly. Sorry for the random questions.

Brandon

 

[mikepinto65]

is that 1200 degrees Fahrenheit? And stove top temp???

 

[Jags]

At 1600 SQFT of well insulated home, I would be looking in the 2.5 cu ft firebox range. It is true that a smaller stove could produce enough heat to do the job, but I am considering fuel load for the extended burn times. And yes, the new stoves, being properly installed should have all the control that you should need.

Watch out for the advertised number of BTU and SQFT. Is that 1600 sqft for 3 hours or 7.....ya get my drift?

 

[boisblancboy]

Yes its 1200 Fahrenheit. It is a built in thermometer right on the top center of the wood stove that looks like one of those magnetic types.


Jags, yeah I get your drift. So basically I should be more concerned with the burn times? Smaller firebox could heat 1600 sq ft but the burn time would be significatly less, then again I wouldnt want to big a firebox thus I would have to have it choked down too much, correct?? And yes, this is a very well insulated 1 and a 1.5 story home.

 

[Highbeam]

It is always better to have an oversized stove than to have an undersized stoves. For several reasons including the fact that stove manufacturers can't possibly know how much heat loss your SF will endure. They are not rewarded by being conservative with there rated heating area so will generally overrate their stoves. More important than heating area rating is burn times. You will want a 2.5 CF or larger firebox simply because you can put enough wood in there to make it through the night.

Modern non-cat stoves can only be shut down so far. Due to the EPA, there is a minimum intake setting that allows too much air to enter the stove and prevents you from keeping the filled stove at a low temperature. This control can be defeated with a pipe damper.

 

[Jags]

Jags, yeah I get your drift. So basically I should be more concerned with the burn times?

Nope - sometimes those numbers should be quoted in fiction novels too. Firewood has xxxx amount of btu's per pound. More pounds = more btu. Is it a 7 hour burn time at 45000 btu or 7 hours at 25000 btu?? Those are the numbers you will NOT see in the glossy hand outs.

Basically the firebox size dictates your fuel load. Soft woods, maybe you want to go a little bigger. All hard woods, you might get away with a little smaller. But basically, its pretty hard to run a stove for over night with less than a 2.5 box. Some may pipe up and argue with that, but not at the heat load that I require for an over night heater. They simply will NOT hold the pounds of wood to create the BTUs needed.

New construction with preemo insulation will also change things. You simply won't have as large of a heat requirement as a lesser built building does.

I heat 1750 SQFT with modest insulation and a 3.0 cu ft firebox. The next stove I own will be 1 size up.

 

[mikepinto65]

Yes its 1200 Fahrenheit. It is a built in thermometer right on the top center of the wood stove that looks like one of those magnetic types.


Jags, yeah I get your drift. So basically I should be more concerned with the burn times? Smaller firebox could heat 1600 sq ft but the burn time would be significatly less, then again I wouldnt want to big a firebox thus I would have to have it choked down too much, correct?? And yes, this is a very well insulated 1 and a 1.5 story home.

I agree with the above posts that bigger is better in most cases. Just because you have a larger firebox does not mean that you have to have a new EPA stove choked down too much. You can still manage the heat with the air control and also the amount of fuel in the firebox.
FWIW your stove top temps are WAY to high. unless im missing something here, you should be running the stove between 400-600F

 

[Jags]

FWIW your stove top temps are WAY to high. unless im missing something here, you should be running the stove between 400-600F

Yeah, don't plan on being able to run an EPA stove like that. That would be considered an overfire situation for all MFGs that I know of.

 

[mikepinto65]

P.S. what stove have you been operating at your rent?

 

[boisblancboy]

It is always better to have an oversized stove than to have an undersized stoves. For several reasons including the fact that stove manufacturers can't possibly know how much heat loss your SF will endure. They are not rewarded by being conservative with there rated heating area so will generally overrate their stoves. More important than heating area rating is burn times. You will want a 2.5 CF or larger firebox simply because you can put enough wood in there to make it through the night.

Modern non-cat stoves can only be shut down so far. Due to the EPA, there is a minimum intake setting that allows too much air to enter the stove and prevents you from keeping the filled stove at a low temperature. This control can be defeated with a pipe damper.

Thanks for the info so far! I understand exaclty what you mean as far as the BTU's per pound and firebox size and having enough wood to burn through the night, which I definently want it to do. I will definently look for something with a 2.5 CF firebox.

 

[boisblancboy]

P.S. what stove have you been operating at your rent?

I do believe it is a dutch west, size and model number I dont know for sure. Im not currently at the rental house so I cant just go look at it. Its not a big stove. It does have a side loading door. 16" pieces of wood fit nicely, but I think you could just get a 18" in. It has the damper/flue control, a screw in type air control near the top above the side door and a small lever on the same side near the bottom that controls two flaps on either side of the front door.

If I have 3-4 pieces of wood in it, it will run at about 400-1000 degrees with all the controls choked down. So I have generally tried to only put 2-3 pieces in it and it will max out at 800 degrees. I just found it very hard to control it well.

 

[Wet1]

You might want to consider a stove with a cat as well. Cats can conserve wood, burn longer, and burn at lower temps. They can also burn more constant temps throughout the burn cycle. The down side to cat stoves is the cat has to be replaced every 6 to 10 years or so (at $100-$200), but this is a small price to pay IMO for all the benefits they offer. You also have to throw an additional lever when loading wood.

Two obvious choices in cat stoves are the Woodstock Fireview and the Blaze King Princess. The WS FV is smaller and maybe a little undersized for for your new place, although I think there are owners here heating this much space and more in your climate. The BK Princess is larger and has a built in thermostat so you don't have to fiddle with the air throughout the burn. The BKP would probably be my first choice if I were in your shoes. Although I suspect the WS FV might work for you and it's a sharp looking stove (IMO).

 

[mikepinto65]

Good points Wet1 but I think any new stove will work for him in terms of managing heat cleanly. Sounds to me that old dutchwest is just a little leaky!
boisblancnoy, if the larger fireboxes are just too much of a tern off for you, check out the Jotul Castine....very sharp little stove. IMO you really dont need to be threatened by larger firebox sizes and, if you do like the looks of the Jotul, move towards the Oslo.

 

[boisblancboy]

Thanks I will check those stoves out. How hard is it to replace the Cats? Also one thing I am really look for in a new wood stove, is one that will keep the glass clean for a decent amount of time. Part of the allure for me, along with saving money burning wood, is to be able to sit there in the evenings and watch the flames. Do most of the newer wood stoves burn this way to keep the glass clean?

 

[boisblancboy]

No im not worried about a larger firebox, if thats what I need then by all means I will get it. But of course if I dont need something too big i wont get it, save on space in my living room and maybe some up front money.

 

[mikepinto65]

Thanks I will check those stoves out. How hard is it to replace the Cats? Also one thing I am really look for in a new wood stove, is one that will keep the glass clean for a decent amount of time. Part of the allure for me, along with saving money burning wood, is to be able to sit there in the evenings and watch the flames. Do most of the newer wood stoves burn this way to keep the glass clean?

Yes but you wont be able to see "as good" flames in a cat stove!

 

[Jags]

Yep! Most do a pretty good job of it....if you are doing your job.

 

[ControlFreak]

Yes but you wont be able to see "as good" flames in a cat stove!

That's right. With cat stoves, and "everburn" stoves, the wood in the main firebox generates the smoke that is burned in the cat or the refractory combustor, respectively. This means that the smokey combustion happening in the main firebox can leave the glass covered in soot even though the final exhaust is cleaned up by the cat/combustor. This ability for these stoves to clean up the emissions enables you to slow down the fire a great deal and extend the burn time, ie the heat is spread out more evenly over the duration.

 

[Highbeam]

Guys, it sounds like the rental house stove is a cat stove. A dutchwest and the cat probe thermometer is the one at 1200.

The non-cat will have a prettier fame picture than a cat stove. A larger stove only costs a little more than a small one and you will be rewarded greaetly by easier wood loading, easier fire starting, and of course more HP.

We stare at the fire almost as much as the TV. We have a big window that stays very clean due to the modern air-wash systems. If you are burning dry wood then your glass will stay clean.

 

[mikepinto65]

Guys, it sounds like the rental house stove is a cat stove. A dutchwest and the cat probe thermometer is the one at 1200.

The non-cat will have a prettier fame picture than a cat stove. A larger stove only costs a little more than a small one and you will be rewarded greaetly by easier wood loading, easier fire starting, and of course more HP.

We stare at the fire almost as much as the TV. We have a big window that stays very clean due to the modern air-wash systems. If you are burning dry wood then your glass will stay clean.

Good Point! Completely looked past that as a possibility :roll:

 

[Wet1]

On a cat stove the glass will stay clean if you burn it warmer, but it will get covered in time at a low setting. This will clean right off once the stove gets hot again. It's also worth noting that we're talking about a low output, a level non-cats simply can't burn at... if they did they would just smolder and puff creosote, which the EPA certainly wouldn't allow.

With that said, non cats (w/o afterburners) typically have a better flame show since they will have secondary combustion flames at the top of the stove while the stove is hot.

The cat is easy to get at on both stoves mentioned.

 

[Wet1]

Good point HB.

Brandon, that Dutchwest is a real POS so disregard anything you might think about cat stoves based on that thing! :cheese:

 

[Todd]

Thanks I will check those stoves out. How hard is it to replace the Cats? Also one thing I am really look for in a new wood stove, is one that will keep the glass clean for a decent amount of time. Part of the allure for me, along with saving money burning wood, is to be able to sit there in the evenings and watch the flames. Do most of the newer wood stoves burn this way to keep the glass clean?

The Fireview would be a good choice. The cat is easy to get at and clean, just lift the lid and it's right there. The double paned glass stays very clean, I might clean mine once per month if that. The flames are lazy slow yellow, orange and blue with awesome secondary bursts that last longer than any other non cat stove I've owned before.

Your DW stove temps are fine, if that is the DW cat version it should have a probe thermometer that sits right above the cat. Once it reaches 500 degrees you should engage the cat by closing the bypass damper. Internal temps can reach as high as 1700 for short times but 800-1200 is normal.

 

[firefighterjake]

I am about to buy a new wood stove for the new house I am about done building. Now I know there are all kinds of different wood stoves, models, makes and tons of accessories, but I had a couple random questions that i hoped you could help me with. My house is 1600 sq ft. Is it better to have a stove that is rated to heat a 1600 sq ft home or one a little larger like for 2000 sq ft?

Now a different random question. The place I have rented until I get into my new house has a nice small woodstove which works well to heat that house but here is my question. No matter how choked down i have that stove its temp seems to run accordingly with how much wood I have in it. If I have it full of wood, about 6 pieces or so, and have it choked down, it will run at about 1200 or a little hotter which tends to heat the house up to much. Are the newer woods stoves all like this or can you get them to run at whatever temp you like? Hope that was explained clearly. Sorry for the random questions.

Brandon

One of the best nuggets of advice I picked up here before I bought my own woodstove was to figure out what I needed square footage-wise . . . and then get a stove one size larger than what I needed. I did so and have been very happy.

Why? 1) The Dream Numbers . . . the manufacturers come up with the burn times and square footage based on lab testing . . . I don't live in a lab though. In my real life-experience I have to contend with factors not anticipated in labs -- i.e. insulation in the home, winds, windows, etc. One thing I found is that the defintions can be a little ambiguous as well . . . I mean is burn time the time taken from when a match lights kindling on fire until the last glowing coal is no longer seen or is it the time a stove reaches 500 degrees until the temp drops below that amount or is it . . . well you get the idea.

2) Maybe a stove sized "correctly" for your square footage would work . . . or perhaps it will work, but just have to work a lot harder to keep up to the demands . . . and on those very bitterly cold, sub-zero temp nights the stove might not cut it. It is far easier (for you and the stove) to have a slightly larger stove and when needed light a small fire in a bigger firebox than it is to try to light a bigger fire in a small firebox when it is full to capacity.

As I said . . . some of the best advice I received . . . and I think if you look back at past posts and folks with issues . . . there seem to be a lot more folks complaining of issues with too small stoves and not getting enough heat vs. folks saying they bought too large of a stove . . . although, of course, it is possible to have too much of a good thing as well.

As for your rental home stove . . . either the temp is measuring something quite differently than what we're accustomed to seeing for stove top temps (most stove top temps seen in modern stoves tend to be 400-700 on the average . . . or there is a leak in the firebox or gasket causing this fire to burn a heckuva lot hotter than it should . . . those temps seem pretty high.

As for keeping the glass clean . . . it seems as though most stoves today with "glass" have air wash tech that does a pretty decent job of keeping them clean. Burning unseasoned wood and/or not running the stove hot enough can however soot up the glass . . . and even normal operations can result in some smudging over time . . . lots of fixes though . . . everything from running the stove hot and letting it burn off, using ash to clean, razors to scrape and about a half dozen other methods.

 

[boisblancboy]

Thanks for all the help and advice everyone, I really appreciate it! Im sure all this information will come in handy while shopping around for a stove.


As for the stove at my rental, yeah I didnt think it was of high quailty, but I figured I would ask about it anyway.

Thanks again