Active Burn Zone on BK Stoves Accuracy?

[Pgaron]

Still breaking in my new ashford insert, just went to load it for the night and it was going good nice heat, spread the unburnt wood to the back and raked the hot coals for an even bed, loaded it up. It was a very very hot fire so hot i could not use my hands to even rake the coals with the poker had to get my gloves, loaded it up and checkec the thermometer on the side to see where it was at and i was shocked it was outside the active zone. my question is where is the thermometer getting its reading and how accurate are they. as always with a new load set to high for 30 mins and will engage the cat when it gets to the active zone but i cant belive its not there already.... such a hot fire going

 

[Highbeam]

Yeah, the new model inserts use a remote read system that is not quite as desirable as a direct read thermometer IMO.

 

[Pgaron]

Yeah, the new model inserts use a remote read system that is not quite as desirable as a direct read thermometer IMO.

hmm that's interesting are there schematics or anything to show this, i need to visualize it to make sense of it not quite sure I understand how its getting the temps. my best guess as to what happened was opening the door and the long time it took me to load it might have cooled it off but i would love to see it. is there anyway to call other members to the thread i know there is that guy BKVP maybe he could shed light on it. Like i said i took a dandy ol time loading it because i had to rake the coals and what not then i was playing geometry in regards to fit the most wood in the box so it was open for maybe 5 mins or so

 

[spudman99]

Monitor your Ashford when you do this again. Remember that unusual events can be just unusual, unless they are repeatable. Not uncommon with a new user and a new stove. Not saying you did anything wrong, just could have been a one off. Report back after your next load, hopefully repeating the same sequence (or similar) to see if the thermometer falls out of the active zone.

 

[Nelson]

Still breaking in my new ashford insert, just went to load it for the night and it was going good nice heat, spread the unburnt wood to the back and raked the hot coals for an even bed, loaded it up. It was a very very hot fire so hot i could not use my hands to even rake the coals with the poker had to get my gloves, loaded it up and checkec the thermometer on the side to see where it was at and i was shocked it was outside the active zone. my question is where is the thermometer getting its reading and how accurate are they. as always with a new load set to high for 30 mins and will engage the cat when it gets to the active zone but i cant belive its not there already.... such a hot fire going

I've had similar experience with my Ashford Insert. Stove is still throwing off great heat, red hot coals in the stove and no smoke coming from the chimney - but the thermo is just barely out of the active zone. I have had this occur on numerous occasions. Second year with the stove and we only run it some weekday nights and on the weekend in colder weather - so, I don't have a ton of reload experience with it yet.

 

[Poindexter]

I think I remember the 25 series inserts, and the Boxer 24 freestander, use a go/no go indicator for the cat probe. I haven't operated one yet, but with what you are describing I would have expected the indicator to be back up in the active zone pretty quick, maybe five minutes or so, after you closed the loading door and had the knob at the top of the swoosh.

 

[Pgaron]

I think I remember the 25 series inserts, and the Boxer 24 freestander, use a go/no go indicator for the cat probe. I haven't operated one yet, but with what you are describing I would have expected the indicator to be back up in the active zone pretty quick, maybe five minutes or so, after you closed the loading door and had the knob at the top of the swoosh.

What do you mean by a go/no go

 

[moresnow]

I think I remember the 25 series inserts, and the Boxer 24 freestander, use a go/no go indicator for the cat probe

You are correct on the 25 series insert. Incorrect on the Boxer 24 as it utilizes a standard indicator. Just a heads up.

 

[Nelson]

I think BKVP mentioned something similar with regards to go/no go on the cat prope (for the ashford 25). however, mine does not necessarily present that way. During the early parts of my burns, the indicator can be at the 2 o'clock position (if you think of the indicator like the top third of a clock). It will slowly drift back toward 12 (straight up and down) and sometimes it will hover at 12 for quite some time before eventually falling back to the 11 or 10 (cold) position.

This is my first BK so it's hard to compare this behavior to the cat thermo on the other BK units (which, as I understand it is more of a standard temp thermo and has a wide range of readings). I assume most of the other BK cat thermos will have a much wider range of readings during the burn cycle.

 

[twd000]

I know my stove well enough by now to ignore the temperature probe. On a cold start, it seems especially sluggish to respond. I can eyeball the amount of flames in the box and use that as my cue to engage the cat. Typically it starts glowing orange shortly afterwards. If I waited for the probe to indicate that it's in the active zone, I would be wasting a lot of extra heat up the chimney.

 

[Highbeam]

I assume most of the other BK cat thermos will have a much wider range of readings during the burn cycle.

The actual cat thermometers on the conventional stoves have more than 270 degrees of effective range. The most important information from that meter is the active line. The rest is just for fun. I replaced the factory numberless gauge with a properly labeled version from condar that works pretty much the same but allows me to know what the actual temperature of the cat is. Lots of fun.

 

[Nelson]

I know my stove well enough by now to ignore the temperature probe. On a cold start, it seems especially sluggish to respond. I can eyeball the amount of flames in the box and use that as my cue to engage the cat. Typically it starts glowing orange shortly afterwards. If I waited for the probe to indicate that it's in the active zone, I would be wasting a lot of extra heat up the chimney.

I'm with you on that. I'm at a point where I know when I can engage the cat, even if it's a few ticks in the inactive zone, and have it in the active within a minute or two. It's really the back half of the burn that has me wondering.

This is the first year that I'm going to be able to run some good hardwood (oak and hickory) through the Ashford - Last year I was burning mostly White Pine and I was probably expecting too much from it. So this year will be a much better test for in terms of seeing how the thermo behaves.

 

[Nelson]

The actual cat thermometers on the conventional stoves have more than 270 degrees of effective range. The most important information from that meter is the active line. The rest is just for fun. I replaced the factory numberless gauge with a properly labeled version from condar that works pretty much the same but allows me to know what the actual temperature of the cat is. Lots of fun.

I find myself wanting that kind of data too! However, I don't think it's possible (at least not easily) with the Ashford 25 cat thermometers. If there is a way, I'd love to hear it!

Like I said earlier, I find that a lot times my thermometer is riding the active/inactive line, about midway through a burn, to the point where I can't tell if it's in or out of the active zone. So, does that mean the cat temp is hovering right around 500F and just cruising there? Or is it lower and the cat technically is not active. When I've been able to check the stack, in this scenario, I'm not getting any smoke - maybe I'm just in the coaling stage and this should be expected?

 

[Highbeam]

I find myself wanting that kind of data too! However, I don't think it's possible (at least not easily) with the Ashford 25 cat thermometers. If there is a way, I'd love to hear it!

Like I said earlier, I find that a lot times my thermometer is riding the active/inactive line, about midway through a burn, to the point where I can't tell if it's in or out of the active zone. So, does that mean the cat temp is hovering right around 500F and just cruising there? Or is it lower and the cat technically is not active. When I've been able to check the stack, in this scenario, I'm not getting any smoke - maybe I'm just in the coaling stage and this should be expected?

So very few members have the ashford inser and of those, even fewer care about the details like you do. I wish I could answer your questions.

 

[mellow]

I put a thermocouple on my exhaust and used that to monitor temps instead of using the included gauge.

 

[Nelson]

So very few members have the ashford inser and of those, even fewer care about the details like you do. I wish I could answer your questions.

Yep, makes sense - I knew that going in so no worries. Appreciate you taking the time to read!

 

[Nelson]

I put a thermocouple on my exhaust and used that to monitor temps instead of using the included gauge.

Interesting. Thoughts on how well the exhaust temps correlate with the temp of the cat?

 

[mellow]

Here is a link to my original 25 thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/blaze-king-sirocco-25-insert.157802/post-2133483

 

[Pgaron]

I think BKVP mentioned something similar with regards to go/no go on the cat prope

I have the ashford insert, and so far, i think the active zone indicator they provide isn't the best. I know I am just a new guy and I am calling shots against the 800lbs gorilla here but, I think there is something going on that I can't quite figure out without schematics. for example i come home and the stove has been burning for 8-10 hrs on low/med and the burn zone shows its a few ticks over active, I go to reload... hit the bypass and before i can even reload its out of the active zone, by the time i have reloaded its well below. this is over 380 seconds or so. My biggest worry is the cat is sucking air even when bypassed. what i have been doing was loading then waiting to get back up to active but i have since changed that and now i load, give it a few mins on high with the bypass, then shut it, within a minute its back up to active.... I am engaging well below active but it seems somehow the temp not quite accurate to the actuall firebox, just the cat? i could be wrong like i said im new to this and honestly i love this stove....... not a drop of oil burned and my 2500 sqft home stays in the furthest areas at 63 degrees!! win for me in NE

i hope my questioning isnt taken as an insult of the stove, just another guy trying to learn more.

Also another user mentioned changing the indicator out to an indicator that shows temp, is this something i can do for the ashford insert

 

[BKVP]

Cat temps are very influenced by many factors. Before we go there, keep in mind the cat thermometers are not super high tech equipment.

Much like moisture meters (consumer grade) they most importantly raise awareness for user interface.

1) Opening the bypass, when you open the bypass, back pressure on the cat drops significantly. Most off the gases the cat feeds on now go straight up and out.

2) Opening loading door immediately sends a rush of room temp air into the face of the combustor. On our digital screens with thermocouples, we can see 100 degree drops every couple of seconds. Leaving a door cracked open or fully open has the same effect.

3) A cold mass. If a person were to open the door and place 40lbs of wood straight from their wood pile, assuming it's cold out, that immediately influences cat temps. The first stage of combustion is to boil the 16lbs of water out of the wood load. (Assuming 20%average m.c.)

The best way to reduce these influences is to bring your next load in 24 hrs in advance. Have your wood ready, by the stove, gloves on. Open bypass, open door and load wood. Our lab guys can do this in 20 seconds or less. No this is not a "who can load fastest challenge ", although that might be fun!

 

[Nelson]

Thank @BKVP - I was going back through the 2018-2019 Everything BK Thread and there was a discussion in there around the cat thermometer for the Ashford 25 (it's a go/no go switch). In one of the posts, I think user @chemie posted a pic of his thermo with the indicator just to the left of the active line. I think the comment was that this was still considered "active". If that is the case, does the indicator need to be most of the way to the left to be considered inactive? Or, put another way, are we ok to assume that the indicator being slightly to the left of active still indicates an active cat? Like others, I'm in the process of trying to determine by low burn setting for the Ashford 25 and want to make sure I'm not stalling the cat.

Thanks!

 

[BKVP]

Correct, if it drops below 500-550F, it will go inactive. The needle will then be far to the left.

 

[Nelson]

Thanks @BKVP , that is really helpful. I know I have been stressing over that needle being just left of the active line when doing my lowest burn and thinking my cat was stalled out (even though I had no smoke coming from my chimney at the time). Though there is definitely a point where it is way left which makes sense for being inactive.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[Pgaron]

Correct, if it drops below 500-550F, it will go inactive. The needle will then be far to the left.

whoa whoa whoa, so what your saying here if i understand is the cat active range is just a general advice thing? this anwsers so many of my earlier questions at the begining of the season with guys telling me my wood was bad and I was stalling out. I woke up this morning and my wood was half gone and not in the active zone.... but went outside, no smoke. bypassed the cat to take a look and she was going just fine. it was probably here if you consider this the full bar with V indicating active and the edges being from inactive to overfire x represents where it was this morning

IIIIIIIIIIIIIXIIIIVVVV

 

[Highbeam]

I’m pretty happy to have a real cat meter now after reading this.