Added insulation to the liner and a block off plate...

[burntime]

Boy does it increase the heat output and allows me to damper the stove down more. I am getting 50-100 degrees more on top of my insert shelf and heat is coming from around the surround. If I had to guess I would bet that I get 25-50 percent more heat with the increase in temp... I have been running the fan on low so I will post when it gets really cold and I run it on high. 36 degrees last night so its not a true 0 degree test

 

[begreen]

Congratulations. Isn't it nice to have the heat in the house instead of the exterior walls of the chimney. I'll bet you feel like you just got a whole new heater. I think you'll also see a significant decrease in wood consumption.

 

[burntime]

It should burn less if I damper it down more Yep, looks the same but boy oh boy more heat...

 

[Northeaster1]

As I am just getting ready to install an insert, what type of insulation did you use, for the liner, and above the damper plate?

 

[burntime]

I bought a kit from rock(something) co off of ebay, then I bought rockwool to go around the area where the liner goes thru the damper plate. The liner is a 1/2 to 3/4 inch with a foil face.

 

[ba_jie]

So what do you think is the main reason for the boost? the insulation or the block off plate?

 

[ozarkjeep]

I am in the process of adding a block off plate as I type.
its in place, I need to goop some hi-temp goo around the edges.

Im hoping it makes a noticeable difference.

 

[burntime]

I think the liner being insulated, a good seal on the top plate(it was leaking around the top plate before and making the house dry) as well as the block off plate all contributed. I have not used the steamer on the insert yet but I can tell you that it should do a better job as well!! Th insert shelf used to hover around 200-250 for temp, now I am geting 300-350 so it should be noticably better to get moisture out of the kettle.

 

[oconnor]

Northeaster1

I found out that you can get the Simpson Duraliner preinsulated rigid liner in Halifax from Powrmatic. I haven't checked on the price yet - I'll PM you to let you know. I'm planing on using that with a section of flex on the end.

As for insulating above the block off plate, my installer cut some rockwool to fill the gap. Still have to make the plate though.

 

[bren582]

I'm in the process of a DIY insert install and have wondered the same thing about insulating the damper block plate and the firebox surround. I did a quick mock up with cardboard. I'm thinking of Galvanized sheet metal painted black with high heat ceramic engine paint and some ceramic wool on top of the block off plate in addition to the bottom and sides between the brick and sheetmetal plate.
My fireplace is external on the north west side of the house and i can tell you the masonry gets really cold during the winter months especially inside the firebox. I am also going with an insulated flex pipe kit to the top of the flue which measured 14ft to the damper plate. I'm going with a clydesdale Insert and the masonry demensions are 42Wx30Dx32H. A great deal more volume than I need for the insert. I'm wondering if this is overkill or if there is a signeficant gain to be realized by this approach? Any input is appreciated..

I will start a seperate thread for my project as it progresses but this thread in right in line with what I plan to do. This site has been a great source of information and I really appreciciate it.. Thanks

 

[burntime]

Could you maybe tapcon some rock wool on the back side of the fireplace as well to insulate against the cold? I would definitely insulate and block off plate with rock wool at the top and bottom.

 

[begreen]

bren, I like the cardboard mockup, you think like I do. It's a lot easier to mess with cardboard than a full insert and sheetmetal. The blockoff plate and insulation will keep the heat inside instead of that masonry structure acting like a big wick to the outdoors. You should see a significant gain in heat retention.

 

[burntime]

I have proof, too bad you could not come to WI before and after. I had a decent fire last night and it is 31 degrees now. I did not load up the stove and the house is 68 degrees this morning. It is well worth the extra work and expense.

 

[Northeaster1]

I will only have a couple inches of space on each side, and a few inches at the back, between the new insert and the existing firebox. I was planning on just installing the insert, and a block-off plate.

Now you guys have me thinking about maybe an inch or tow of insulation (rockwool of other suggestions??) on each side, and a few inches at the back, covered by sheet metal on both sides and back, and by the block off plate at the top. (similar to the cardboard mock-up above. I guess that way, the block-off plate would be attached to the new sheet metal sides, rather than the top of the old firebox.

Unless there is a reason not to do this, it looks like this method would really keep the heat away from the cold brick (exterior chimney) and into the room

Thoughts??

 

[burntime]

Try just the back and see what you get, you don't want to overheat it? You could always pull the surround and do the sides if needed? My chimney is internal so I did not do it but the idea came to mind looking at your setup. Good luck.

 

[deedub]

has anyone used this exterior chimney-insulated-wall-heat-shield idea for an alcove stove application ?
my masonry firebox adjacent to the stove gets realllll hot.

 

[bren582]

Master,
I was able to find a roll of #8 1" by 25 sqr ft ceramic wool on Ebay for 60 dollars plus S&H;. That's the cheapest I have found and I have seen some very high prices for the stuff. So I am thinking about sticking the 1 inch wool to the brick surface in the firebox back, sides, top and bottom and leaving a dead air space of a few inches between the sheet metal and the wool. To fill the entire void would cost a small fortune in ceramic wool and from waht I have read here regular fiber glass is not a good idea.. If you have an inch that may be all you need??

BGreen, I love to over analyse stuff and tend to get almost as much enjoyment out of the project as when the stove is complete and burning. It's a welcome destraction from work and the hassles of day to day life. Any idea what the R value is for an inch of the #8 density ceramic wool would be? Would the dead air space be more affective between the brick and wool or the wool and metal shield? I would imagine the wool has a higher R value versus regular insulation but I have no frame of reference to compare the 2.

Thanks,
Peter

 

[burntime]

I can not find the article but I read that the rock wool should not be in the living area...issues with breathing it. Sorry, can not find the link, got distracted and wife went online and shut the computer down. My history deletes at 0 days???

 

[Famer]

This will be my first year with my new insert. My install didn't include an insulated liner. I have a two story home with an exterior masonry chimney that has about a 26' run to my insert. Once winter sets in, if it turns out that an insulated liner could improve my insert's operation, how hard is it to insulate an existing (flex) liner? Is it something a Sweep would typically be able to handle? Does anyone have any ballpark costs on insulation?

Thanks!

 

[burntime]

You can do it yourself, it would probably be about 300-400 for the liner insulation and a few hours of messing around. I got the thicker stuff...like 1/2 vs 1/4 inch I think with a foil face.

 

[Famer]

Maybe a stupid question...but is the insulation a "sleeve" that fits tight around the liner, like I have on some of my heating ducts? If so, I'd have to remove the liner, no?

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Master,
I was able to find a roll of #8 1" by 25 sqr ft ceramic wool on Ebay for 60 dollars plus S&H;. That's the cheapest I have found and I have seen some very high prices for the stuff. So I am thinking about sticking the 1 inch wool to the brick surface in the firebox back, sides, top and bottom and leaving a dead air space of a few inches between the sheet metal and the wool. To fill the entire void would cost a small fortune in ceramic wool and from waht I have read here regular fiber glass is not a good idea.. If you have an inch that may be all you need??

BGreen, I love to over analyse stuff and tend to get almost as much enjoyment out of the project as when the stove is complete and burning. It's a welcome destraction from work and the hassles of day to day life. Any idea what the R value is for an inch of the #8 density ceramic wool would be? Would the dead air space be more affective between the brick and wool or the wool and metal shield? I would imagine the wool has a higher R value versus regular insulation but I have no frame of reference to compare the 2.

Thanks,
Peter

Could you share a link with us?

Thank you,Hiram

 

[burntime]

Maybe a stupid question...but is the insulation a "sleeve" that fits tight around the liner, like I have on some of my heating ducts? If so, I'd have to remove the liner, no?

No stupid at all, its about 19 inches for a 6 inch liner. 3m spray to adhear it to the stainless liner then wrap it up. Use aluminum duct foil to hold it, a pipe clamt at the top and bottom and basically chicken wire to hold it in place while putting it down the liner. You need the foil face or it does not meet the UL requirement. The way I figured it, I would spend the extra so if I ever have an issue the insurance co has no wiggle room. I would hate to save a hundred and cost me my claim. Good luck.

 

[Famer]

Burntime, thanks for the info. I totally agree with you, it seems like it's worth the additional expense. I just hate the thought of pulling out a brand new liner and re-installing it. It's probably one of those things I should have asked about before the install, but I guess I didn't really know enough at the time to ask. It's that old "you don't know what you don't know" expression.

Any way, I guess I'll see things go during this first year. Once winter really kicks in, if the insert doesn't seem to be putting out the heat that it should, liner insulation will most likely be in my future.

 

[Famer]

Burntime, thanks for the info. I totally agree with you, it seems like it's worth the additional expense. I just hate the thought of pulling out a brand new liner and re-installing it. It's probably one of those things I should have asked about before the install, but I guess I didn't really know enough at the time to ask. It's that old "you don't know what you don't know" expression.

Any way, I guess I'll see how things go during this first season. Once winter really kicks in, if the insert doesn't seem to be putting out the heat that it should, liner insulation will most likely be in my future.