Advice needed on stove purchase

[Jason_in_AK]

Howdy all. I recently bought a 700 Sq foot cabin that came with a Blaze King Royal Guardian. It's a tiny little stove but throws out too much heat too fast. Within about 4-5 hours of starting the stove with the damper all the way on low, it will have completely burned out a full load of spruce, (only thing I have access to here), and gone cold to the touch. At I really want a stove that I can rely on 24/7 with up to 10 hours between load times. I don't mind if my oil heater kicks on to help a bit when it's really cold, but I'd like to be heating almost exclusively with wood.

The Royal Guardian puts out enough heat right now at 10F or so to force me to open a window or door for circulation. You can hear the air suck in through the door of the stove. I've read some reviews of the stove that say that this lack of a good seal is a common issue with this model, even after attempting gasket changes.

So... I need a stove with enough capacity to burn long and slow without producing enough heat to cook me out. I was renting a place with a locally made barrel-style smoke belcher that had plenty of coals for a simple reload after 10 hours overnight, so I know it's possible, but I'd really like to accomplish that same thing more cleanly.

The other side of the equation is that it hits the negative 70's here, and long stretches of -50 to -65 are not uncommon in the winters, so the stove has to have the capacity to crank out enough heat to keep me from freezing in those situations. I know that I'll be making trips home during the day to load up the stove during these times.

The larger Blaze King "King" looks like it might fit the bill, or perhaps a soapstone. Any input is very welcome!

Thanks.

 

[Hanko]

wow 70 below. I dont even want to try an imagine how that would feel. I give you credit for living in that climate. You must really enjoy it in Alaska. I would think the best advise you could get is from other people in your area. On this site all you will get are (geez buy this stove its better than anything in the whole world cause I own it) From what i read on this site, there are maybe a dozen or so good EPA rated wood stoves. To name some, Jotul, Loppi, Pacific enegry, Heartstone, Vermont Castings, to name a few. Start checking web sites and most of all read up on these websites, there is alot of pretty good info. Check woodheat.org . Good Luck

 

[brooktrout]

Well, with spruce, you may never get a ten hour burn, that stuff goes fast. If you can hear the air rushing through, then the draft is probably too strong- try a chimney damper. Sounds like your problem is opposite of what a lot of people on this site incur- not ENOUGH heat. If you are able to tame that puppy, it should do you just fine. -70 :bug:

 

[eernest4]

What you want is a EPA (enviremental protection agency) rated Secondary Burn Stove.
The give the same heat as an old timer stove,like the barrel stove mentioned in your post, but only burn 1/3 of the wood to do it with. This results in savings of wood of 66%.

I do not recommend a catalitic combustor stove as they are all high cost of maintaince
stoves , too complicated for your cold envirenment, where a good running stove can make the difference between life or death.

You mention over nite burns as being important on the one hand & on the other hand complain about the stove being too hot. I think that the stove you are using has a primary air leak into the combustion chamber that causes too much primary combustion air into the fire box so that your burns are very hot & very short.

the sq ft of your cabin is 700 sq ft , but due to the extreeme cold temps I would not buy anything smaller that a medium capacity firebox stove rated 1800 sq ft, but that size of firebox is a bit small & can only manage a 6 hour overnight burn.( 8hr if you lucky, but don't count on it) overnight burn.

You could be better off buying the large size 3.5 cubic ft firebox, rated 2000 sq ft, because it has a proven 8 to 10 hr overnite burn with red hot embers to wake up to.

I am from conn . usa (new england) so I dont know the stoves or stores in your area.
If you have lowes home improvement , buy the summersheat model 50snc30lc, it is a secondary burn wood saver with 2000 sq ft heating capacity & 8 to 10 hr overnight burns.

If you have a home depot, ace hardware or tru value hardware buy englander model 50-30ncp or ncl . Same stove as summersheat,parts interchange.

If you don't have any of then click here & buy 50-snc-30lc for $799.oo(shipping included to most locations) but you might have to pay additional shipping, depending.
www.overstockstoves.com

NOTE THE PRICE: > $799.oo & compair this to 2000.oo for a blaze king or 2500.oo for a pacific energy summit or 3000.oo for a soapstone.

Here are the reasonS why I recommend www.englanderstoves.com

1. Summersheat & englander stoves are the same stove, but different names are propietary to different relailers and englanders are the simple uncomplicated
work horses of the wood stove herd.

2. they are the least costly stove that you can buy that is still a high quality 20 year life stove.

3. You can't buy a compairable stove for the same price or even for 1.5 times as much.

4. They are all welded 1/4 inch steel & built to last almost forever or at least 20 years with the exception of 7 do it yourself, replacable parts that will eventually wear or are prone to breakage. Some other stoves, century,for 1 , will use a thinner steel, thus shortening the stoves life.

5. they are simple but brilliantly designed to be fixed by the handy man owner, no waiting 3 weeks for a factory trained repairman to finally show up & for fuel efficiency on a par with the most expensive secondary burn stoves you can buy.

6. they work & work well & they save wood & they cheap & ugly, compaired to competition.
I don't care about looks but I like the big glass fire viewing door. Almost as good as watching tv.


There are other secondary burn stoves that you can buy that are as good but at twice the price & i am not one to recommend wasting money on bells ,jingles or bragging rights.

SIZES OF STOVES WITH COMMENTS!

sizes of stoves--- SMALL--- 1000 to 1200 ft --too small of a fire box for more than a 4 to 6 hr burn & has to be cranking at max all the time in colder weather to stay warm.

MEDIUM -- 1200 to 1800 sq ft -- can manage a shorter over nite burn, say 6 to 8 hr, but still a small firebox that don't hold too much wood and needs to crank full throttle in cold weather.
that for a 1800 sq ft house, In your 700 sq ft cabin ,it be ok except for them 70 below nites
& that why I want to see you get the large size firebox. If you need more wood there is room in the stove for it.

LARGE ---2000 to 2,2000 sq ft ,this the size I recommend for you based on your extra cold temps & need of a 10 hr overnight burn ,the 3.5 cubic foot firebox on this stove is big enough to delever the heat all nite long & still have red hot embers in the morning, resulting in a huge savings in newspapers & matches. , oh yea, & time & effort spent refueling the stove.

LOOKIE HERE AT THIS:A stove can only heat with as much wood as you can cram into it. You can't cram more wood into a small firebox, so you is stuck, FreezingYourAO , but you can regulate the temp output of a large firebox by putting less wood into it & space is available for more wood if you want to run around the house in just your shorts.

I have to keep mine cranked at max all the time because I heat 3000 sq ft with it,more area than it is susposed to be able to heat but it does the basement & first floor roasty toasty, 5 rooms on first floor, temps range from 69 to 79 depending on the room &
58 deg on the second floor with 4 rooms, because of poor heat transfer. I think the stove make enough heat but its a problem of getting the heat out of the basement & up to the second floor. Fortunately, I live & sleep on the first floor, where it is warmer with the summersheat stove than it ever was with the oil heat money burner.

If you follow my advise, I feel safe in saying you will be happy & save a lot of money, to boot.

But then again,I don't never seen,your place.

Im not at all worried about recommending www.englanderstoves.com but i am still thinking
med or large,med or large.

Call up mike at englanderstove.com , his phone number there on web site or email him, see weather he say med or large. BUT LARGE TO BE SAFE & JUST LOAD LESS WOOD IF IT 2 HOT.
not much difference in purchase price between the different stove sizes.

 

[Hanko]

70 below, man thats cold

 

[Highbeam]

That temp ought to really take the slack out.

 

[reelwork02]

There are two members here from the far north (North of 60, and kgrant) that burn Blazeking Cat stoves and have nothing but praise for their controllability. Hopefully they will chime in.

Eernest4 you pullin a englander paycheck yet? ;-P

 

[begreen]

Really, eernest give the Englander ads a break. My mouse scroll wheel is wearing out with these tomes. They are not going to give you a free stove. Say it once and then provide a link for all the other promos.

 

[brooktrout]

Can someone teach eernest how to use spell check? :smirk:

 

[eernest4]

There are two members here from the far north (North of 60, and kgrant) that burn Blazeking Cat stoves and have nothing but praise for their controllability. Hopefully they will chime in.

Eernest4 you pullin a englander paycheck yet? ;-P

I looked at blaze king first,before I bought the englander & it is a really nice stove & i would have bought one except that the high price soured me on it. $2600.oo &tax;&shipping;Blaze King is only sold through dealers so if you don't like the price , there are no other shopping alternatives.

No ,englander don't give me a cent. I just like their stoves because they save every one who buys one a good deal of money on the initial purchase & their stoves do what their customers require of them to do. That is , preform well & last a long,long time.

 

[eernest4]

Can someone teach eernest how to use spell check? :smirk:

First, someone have to teack me how to type, this hunt & peck it killing me!
Next, I need a seeing impared keyboard, so i can see thouse little letters.
Then, if you like, iwould be happy rto tahe spell dhecking lessonds from you. :lol:

 

[eernest4]

Really, eernest give the Englander ads a break. My mouse scroll wheel is wearing out with these tomes. They are not going to give you a free stove.

Say it once and then provide a link for all the other promos.

I feel like the guy that could have had a V8
Why didn't i think of that???????? :roll:
Thanks BE Green, you are a true fiend. :vampire:
Your idea will save me hours of typing.
Now,how do I go about using that check spelling thingie. :blank:

 

[johnsopi]

Eernest, from your sig. line it does not look like your Englander stove is hooked? or are you using both the old 1/4 plate and
Englander to heat.

 

[begreen]

There are two members here from the far north (North of 60, and kgrant) that burn Blazeking Cat stoves and have nothing but praise for their controllability. Hopefully they will chime in.

Eernest4 you pullin a englander paycheck yet? ;-P

No ,englander don't give me a cent. I just like their stoves because they save every one who buys one a good deal of money on the initial purchase & their stoves do what their customers require of them to do. That is , preform well & last a long,long time.

How long have you had yours?

 

[BrotherBart]

How long have you had yours?

:lol:

 

[Jason_in_AK]

Thanks for the replies all. I've been looking around for more information as well. The BK Cat is looking better and better to me as I gather up info. It's got a rated low end BTU 5% lower than the one that's cooking me out of my 700 sq foot place right now. Given that the one I have now is leaking air around the door means it will be possible to keep it even lower than the listed 5%.

The King has got a firebox that's 2.5 times the size, and over 10% higher claimed efficiency. I assume the efficiency is apples to apples given it's two stoves from the same company. On the higher BTU range the larger stove can do almost 2x the heat for those -70 times. The fact that there are some other folks at my relative latitude burning and liking them is a huge plus as well. The large box means I can load larger rounds instead of splits, which should also increase burn time and lower BTU output.

I know there is no way in hell that I'm actually going to get the 40 hour burn time they are claiming on the BK site using spruce, but at 4 hours currently with my little stove, a lower BTU output, higher efficiency, and a firebox that's 2.5 times as large, I SHOULD be able to get at least a 10 hour overnight/at work burn time, and be able to toss more wood on the coals when I wake up or get home. It isn't cheap, but it'll have a payback rate of about a year compared with how much oil I'd be burning with all the cold time on my current stove. Plus, I can take the little thing I have now and toss it in the garage I'm planning on building this summer. The garage won't need to be t-shirt warm, so a nightly/morning 1 load burn after the car is in/out to get the temp up and keep the foundation warm will be just the ticket as long as the insulation is good.

 

[swestall]

When I try to read those long posts I always wake up at 3AM slumped over the PC.

 

[raybonz]

There are two members here from the far north (North of 60, and kgrant) that burn Blazeking Cat stoves and have nothing but praise for their controllability. Hopefully they will chime in.

Eernest4 you pullin a englander paycheck yet? ;-P

I looked at blaze king first,before I bought the englander & it is a really nice stove & i would have bought one except that the high price soured me on it. $2600.oo &tax;&shipping;Blaze King is only sold through dealers so if you don't like the price , there are no other shopping alternatives.

No ,englander don't give me a cent. I just like their stoves because they save every one who buys one a good deal of money on the initial purchase & their stoves do what their customers require of them to do. That is , preform well & last a long,long time.

My cat stove is not high maintenance at all... My cats last over 6 years and cost 100 dollars and are easy to replace.. I know you love your Englander but they are not for everyone.. I am sure it is a decent stove but there are many other very good stoves out there and many of us also prefer cast iron both for looks and steady even heat... FYI I have never disassembled my stove in the 20 years I have had it to reseal it... Basically stop trying to jam your stove down everyones throats.. If I was to replace my stove the decision would be difficult because I feel the market has many very good stoves...

Ray

 

[KeithO]

Ray, the comments on durability may have more to do with recent quality issues with VC than specifically related to your (late 80's) stove. My Morso 7110 is a cast iron stove too and it is a high quality unit. The western European nations typically can't get by on crappy workmanship. I looked at the Dutchwest series of stoves last year and they were quite badly made. Shockingly bad for the price, which was directly comparable to the Morso unit. The larger VC stoves were better (at least in the castings), but really expensive and none had clearances comparable to the Morso. To add insult to injury, none of the heat shields were included either (needed even for the larger clearances), thus adding several hundred $ to the total price.

Unfortunately, there were absolutely no cat stoves available (that meet my wifes approval) which could fit in the space I had available. The 7110 had the biggest firebox and the smallest clearances for my application. For next season I will add an adjustment on the secondary air which I hope will make the stove easier to live with. Under high draft, the secondary air needs to be closed down to make the unit controllable and increase efficiency. Its illegal of course...

Keith

 

[grizzly2]

Do they have coal in Alaska?

Many hand fed, and hopper gravity fed coal stoves can go 12 hours + on a low to high burn, and heat output can be controlled very easily.

 

[North of 60]

Eernest, from your sig. line it does not look like your Englander stove is hooked? or are you using both the old 1/4 plate and
Englander to heat.

NO hes yapin about somthing thats still on a pallet. SURPRISE. I know they have Bro-barts approval and I think that stands for somthing. Eernest knows as mutch about his Englander/Summers heat, sitting on a pallet as he knows about CAT stoves. He has no experience with either. Sorry to set you back a notch EE4 but your ramblin on again. :coolgrin:
Back to Jason in AK. We have a 10,000sq ft stove dealership (GRIFFITHS) in our little town of Whitehorse. They sell the BKs 3 to 1. Spruce or pine in the smallest Cat @ 2.8cu ft is still a sinch & 10 to 12hrs in cold weather. 16 -18 0n low low after cat lights off for the spring and fall. IM serious. ITs a lower heat output for these burn times but thats all you need to maintain a comfortable temp unless you are missing walls and a roof. If you got the KE 4.0cu your laughin. If ive got mine cranked @ #3 on a full load 4-6 hrs. The
auto thermostatic control will settle it down even on #3 and not let it over fire.

 

[Jason_in_AK]

North of 60 - Really good info, thanks. I think Whitehorse and Tok are pretty close in terms of weather and cold considerations. It's really good to know that's the dominant stove there. Interestingly, most folks here seem to burn locally made smolder machines. They keep a low heat for very long times, but send smoke directly up the pipe in the process. The one at the place I was renting at the start of this winter built up creosote in the firebox like you wouldn't believe, (only having green and punky wood to burn didn't help that at all of course). It sounds like a Cat stove is the efficient and environmentally sound version of that.

One question on the large BK stove... the automatic thermostat is electrically controlled? If so, I'd imagine I'd want to have that plugged in to a battery backup to regulate fire temps during power outages?

On the question of coal availability. I hear there is a place you can get a load of coal for a few 100 bucks on the road, but it's a few hundred miles away at least. If you took a big enough truck down and had storage options, it would probably be a pretty good way to go, which made me consider this route for a bit. Wood, on the other hand is plentiful here. There are 10's of thousand of acres of 4 year dead fire-killed spruce that can be cut for free. Since I don't have a truck I'm going to go with the option of having wood delivered to my house in 8 foot poles at around $100 a cord for now. I get exercise, and save tons of $ on oil over the log haul.

 

[raybonz]

Ray, the comments on durability may have more to do with recent quality issues with VC than specifically related to your (late 80's) stove. My Morso 7110 is a cast iron stove too and it is a high quality unit. The western European nations typically can't get by on crappy workmanship. I looked at the Dutchwest series of stoves last year and they were quite badly made. Shockingly bad for the price, which was directly comparable to the Morso unit. The larger VC stoves were better (at least in the castings), but really expensive and none had clearances comparable to the Morso. To add insult to injury, none of the heat shields were included either (needed even for the larger clearances), thus adding several hundred $ to the total price.

Unfortunately, there were absolutely no cat stoves available (that meet my wifes approval) which could fit in the space I had available. The 7110 had the biggest firebox and the smallest clearances for my application. For next season I will add an adjustment on the secondary air which I hope will make the stove easier to live with. Under high draft, the secondary air needs to be closed down to make the unit controllable and increase efficiency. Its illegal of course...

Keith

Hello Keith,
I would not consider a VC stove now either.. Morso would be on my list for sure.. What clearances does the Morso stove have? That would be a factor too.. Others here speak well of the Morso too..

Ray

 

[Highbeam]

The BK stoves have impressive stats and I haven't heard of one person that doesn't like them after owning one. They have a decent website with good photos. They are relatively unattractive and relatively, OK VERY, expensive for a plate steel stove. I believe that the large BK requires the 8" flue.

There is a parts diagram on the BK website and I believe that the thermostat (a really cool feature) is non electric. A bimettalic spring arrangement.

 

[North of 60]

Correct all mechanical & over 20 years proven. As for looks they have three models for each size. What for sure looks good to anyone is the heating bills and the warm house over a long period of time. The large does have an 8". Ive seen people cheat and still use the existing 6". Not sure about code. A lot of things are let go here or not looked at in remote areas. Kgrant in this forum could fill you in an the large model. Hes from Fairbanks. Hope this helps.