Air Travel Through Existing Duct In A Rancher

[fdegree]

I have tried to search the forum, but the results I have encountered don't seem to apply to my situation...then again, I'm new to wood stoves and may have misinterpreted what I was reading.

First, I am very new to wood stoves...never been around one for any length of time. Although, I do have a background in basic heating, A/C and ventilation.

My home is 2300 sq. ft. - single story - supply air duct work in the attic with registers in the ceiling - return air duct work in the crawl space with the grilles low on the wall - all of this duct work is insulated sheet metal - the indoor air handler is a vertical unit located in the garage.

I am considering a radical change to my heating system only if, for some odd reason, we ever lost power for an extended period of time...worst case scenario:
- remove the indoor air handler
- install an air-tight wood stove in the same place the air handler was
- install a canopy hood over the wood stove to capture the radiant heat and direct it into the existing supply duct work in the attic
- attach the smoke pipe to the existing 6" 2-wall smoke stack
- through natural convection, allow the existing return duct work, in the crawl space, to bring air back into the garage

My questions are:
How well would this work...keeping the entire house comfortable?
How far down over the stove would the canopy have to go in order to be most efficient while ensuring personal safety (i.e. - CO transmission)?
What type of wood stove would work best for this application?

Any other input is greatly appreciated.


Thanks

 

[Inside Guy]

Interesting idea. I've seen applications where heated air is directed into the cold air return of the furnace and utilizes the furnace's blower to distribute that heated air throughout the home (without engaging the furnace burner). I'm not sure how well the heated air from your setup would flow throughout your home without a blower.

 

[mellow]

check out this thread

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/42080/

 

[fossil]

Your supply registers (feeding conditioned air into the living space) are in the ceilings, and your return registers (sending air back out of the living space to the air handler) are low in the walls? Sounds like this system was designed to be more efficient for cooling than heating. In any case, expecting a system of ductwork to function without forced circulation is, I think, pure folly. Also, if you look into your local Mechanical Code, you'll likely find that it's not permissable to have a return duct for a central system within 10 feet of a solid fuel-burning appliance...and what you're proposing is to install the mother of all return ducts directly over the top of your solid fuel-burning appliance. And, when you say "the existing 6" 2-wall smoke stack", what are you talking about? What sort of flue is intalled there? Solid fuel-burning appliances require very specific connector pipe and chimney systems because of the temperatures involved in their operation. I'd say if you want a wood burning backup to your existing system, then go for it...but don't try to incorporate it physically into what's already there. Rick

 

[fdegree]

check out this thread

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/42080/

Thanks for the link.

I did see this thread previously, and it made my idea sound a bit promising. But, I wasn't sure how much of a difference it would make considering the 2 different types of houses...this other one being multi-story with the stove in the basement vs. mine being single story with the stove on the same level (in the garage). This other house requiring mostly a natural, upward flow while mine would require mostly a horizontal flow.

 

[mellow]

That should pretty much answer your question, without some sort of blower device that heat will just sit there. I posted that in hopes of you reading how many codes are being broken with that setup as well. But each to their own.

 

[fossil]

Your plan will (after a whole lot of effort on your part to reconfigure the system) heat the garage quite nicely. Whatever movement of warm air you get to rise up toward the attic will find some place where thermal equilibrium is reached, and airflow ceases. The air in the ductwork will stratify according to temperature and just sit there. It won't appreciably move horizontally, and hot air will most certainly not displace cooler air beneath it. You'll have a nice toasty garage and a warmer attic, and that's about it. Ever move a wood stove around? Rick

 

[madison]

Sorry to put out the brainstorm, but I would agree with mellow and fossil. Unsafe, unwise, unworkable , unimaginable, un .....

If you are going to purchase a woodstove, why not put it in your home? It will work without electricity if that is your concern.

I would have to ask, what are you smokin' to come up with these ideas?

 

[fossil]

OBTW, solid fuel-burning appliances are generally not permitted in garages. Rick

 

[fdegree]

Your supply registers (feeding conditioned air into the living space) are in the ceilings, and your return registers (sending air back out of the living space to the air handler) are low in the walls? Sounds like this system was designed to be more efficient for cooling than heating.

I realize there are a couple of thought processes on this, my thought is...it is actually set up more for heating. My reason for thinking this is: with the returns low in the space I am pulling the cooler air out while trying to heat the space, which make more sense. If the returns were high in the space, I would be pulling the warmer air out while trying to heat the space...seems counterproductive to me. I have heard the other argument...hot air rises so you want your supplies low in the space allowing the warm air to rise through the room, but with the returns high, you end up pulling that warm air right back out of the room...doesn't seem logical to me.

And, when you say "the existing 6" 2-wall smoke stack", what are you talking about? What sort of flue is intalled there?

I currently have an oil fired furnace with a 6" double-wall smoke pipe. As I mentioned in my original post, I know nothing about wood stoves, so I was hoping to utilize this same smoke pipe for the wood stove. But, if that is not feasible, so be it...I'll have to take another approach.

Thanks for your input.

 

[mellow]

Where at in the mid-atlantic are you?

If you are anywhere near me we have not be without power for more than a few hours in the winter, storms just do not get that crazy around here.

 

[fdegree]

Where at in the mid-atlantic are you?

If you are anywhere near me we have not be without power for more than a few hours in the winter, storms just do not get that crazy around here.

Not far from you...Delaware

You're right about the loss of power in this area.

My intent was to get the assistance of those that are more knowledgeable than me, and help me work through my silly ideas. Proving them useless if that is what they turn out to be.

 

[fossil]

Well, I lived in Fairfax Virginia 1995-2007, and when hurricane Isabel roared through there in 2003, we were without power for something like 4 or 5 days. It can happen. Woodstove in the house, or a generator, maybe...but I wouldn't go with a backup plan like the OP's that takes that much effort to assemble and isn't going to work anyway. Rick

ETA: Of course, mercifully, hurricane season and winter are normally displaced in time sufficiently that heating's not the priority when the hurricanes come.

 

[fdegree]

This brings up another thought then.

If I were to place a wood stove in the center of my house (32' from the garage/living space wall) with no obstructions between them (no other walls), and that garage/living space wall is insulated...will it keep my garage warm enough to keep my pipes and water pump from freezing?

 

[fossil]

Can you post a rough floor plan of your house here for us? Rick

 

[fdegree]

I'm out of time right now...I'll try to post that later this evening or perhaps tomorrow

Thanks for everyone's help so far

 

[fdegree]

Here is a basic layout of my floor plan...

I'm thinking of placing the wood stove in the living room, against the bathroom wall, that distance is about 32' from the garage/kitchen wall. All 4 walls of the garage are insulated.

Will that keep my garage warm enough to prevent the water pipes and pump from freezing?
Worst case scenario...0 degrees outside and no electricity.

What wood stove would best provide this desired requirement?

 

[fossil]

If you use an appropriately sized woodstove and keep the living envelope of your home warm, then the garage should stay above freezing, depending on how much time the garage door's open. There may be more things you can do to improve the situation, like additional insulation on/in the exterior garage walls, particularly surrounding the pump corner, dunno. You gotta keep in mind that woodstoves are space heaters...they work terrific for heating the space they're in, but trying to move that heat to remote areas is a challenge we all face in one way or another. What's the appropximate square footage of the big Living/Dining/Kitchen space? What's the total square footage of the home? In your cold weather/power out scenario, how much (if any) of the home would you be willing to close off from the space being heated? I'm thinking that in your situation, if I were really worried about getting through an extended power outage, I'd install a woodstove in the house just where you propose, and I'd get myself a generator to power the water pump and maybe a little space heater or two in the pump/water heater corner of the garage. Is the water heater gas or electric? I'm assuming you're on a well, since you have a water pump...correct? I know, more questions than answers, but that's life sometimes. Rick

 

[rathmir]

I can't help with your questions, but if you would like to talk to a very reputable retailer/installer, I can get you the number of the place that did mine, awesome folks to deal with. Where abouts in DE? I'm up in Wilmington.

 

[fdegree]

What's the appropximate square footage of the big Living/Dining/Kitchen space?

About 770 sq. ft.

What's the total square footage of the home?

About 2300 sq. ft.

In your cold weather/power out scenario, how much (if any) of the home would you be willing to close off from the space being heated?

Ideally, none. But, realistically:
Definitely the office - center front bed room - laundry room
Perhaps the other bed rooms and baths...depending upon how cold they might get.
Perhaps, I could devise a way to close off the sun room...there currently is no door at the sun room entrance from the living room.
I suppose I could keep the door open from the garage to laundry room...maybe that will help some.

Is the water heater gas or electric?

The water heater is electric...a tankless instant water heater.

I'm assuming you're on a well, since you have a water pump...correct?

Yes, you are correct. In fact, I have "teed" off the suction side of the electric water pump and placed a check valve with an old pitcher pump. This way I can still get water from my well if there is a power outage...another reason I don't want anything to freeze.



Thanks for being patient with me and providing all of this input...it is truly helpful.

 

[fdegree]

I can't help with your questions, but if you would like to talk to a very reputable retailer/installer, I can get you the number of the place that did mine, awesome folks to deal with. Where abouts in DE? I'm up in Wilmington.

Much further south...Seaford

That was my next step, to start looking and asking around.

 

[fossil]

...Thanks for being patient with me and providing all of this input...it is truly helpful.

Right back at'cha, neighbor...and we're both of us gonna need a whole lot more patience with each other and lots of additional folks as this concept unfolds. You're not in your wildest imagination thinking you're gonna get this scheme in place before the winter of 2010/2011, are you? Everything involved in the selection, installation, and operation of a woodstove is a pretty big deal...especially the ongoing operation of it. We have a whole lot more to talk about if you think you're going to proceed down this road. Rick

 

[fdegree]

I have absolutely no intention of trying to accomplish this in time for this winter. If everything pans out, I may get started on the project this winter, but not having it functional until next year...at the earliest. It is not something I'm going to jump right into right away...at this time, I'm just trying to get a decent understanding.

 

[fdegree]

You are making it sound like there is a lot more to it than I thought.

I was thinking I would have to make a selection of what stove I want - find the dealer/installer - have the floor prepared - get the stove installed - get the smoke pipe through the ceiling and roof - get wood - FIRE IT UP

Can't take more than a few months...right???

Or am I showing just how naive I am???


Anyway, it's getting late for me...I'll check back in tomorrow evening.

 

[fossil]

Alrighty, then, good...here's what ya do: Start a brand new thread and say you're looking for stove recommendations for the home pictured in the attached floor plan...make sure to include the square footages as you've reported them. Then you'll be flooded with more questions and lots of recommendations about stoves, and you'll be forced to think about things like clearances to combustibles, and hearth insulative values and dimensions into the room, and routing of stovepipe & chimney, and oh my what about a supply of wood for the stove, and a whole host of other things. It'll be fun. But it ain't simple. C'mon! Rick