Another newbie question for DIY Install and Insert Selection

[SeattleRider]

Hi all,
I live in a heavily wooded area so pretty have an abundant supply of wood for the next 10 years. I want to install a wood burning fireplace insert into my existing masonry fireplace. The intent is to heat the first floor (1500 Sq ft) of the two story house with this insert.

I am right outside Seattle and went to a local stove shop to get pricing, they gave me a rough estimate of $4K - 5K for a Regency unit + install.

I simply cannot afford something in that price range, so my question is what is the level of difficulty of doing the liner install + insert install yourself by ordering the needed materials for the online shops?

As for the stove selection, I browsed craigslist and found a listing for a Quadra-fire 5100i for about $700, what are your thoughts about buying a used insert in good condition from a place like CL?

Any other advice you can give will be greatly appreciated.

 

[lostDuck]

There can be a lot of variables in your total cost but by using the web and Hearth.com for guidance I got a brand new insert (2.1 cuft) + 25' insulated liner + rebuilt my hearth and I am in it for less than 2k. Other than getting a town permit I did everything online.

My flue was in good condition so the install is straight forward. My only recommendation to you is to study the manual of the insert you want to buy to make sure you meet all of the clearance and floor protection needs.

Also you may want to look at a wood stove as it will provide more radiant heat if it would fit in your location. I would have gone with a wood stove but the significant other objected....

 

[USMC80]

If i did it all over again I would do the install with a buddy. Done in 3 hours tops and save some cash. If you do go the stove route you can get a Englander nc30 for around 900 brand new. Hell of a stove according to everyone here

 

[SeattleRider]

Thank you for the replies. Since you mentioned using a stove, my question is does the stove need to be outside the fireplace or can it be place inside the fireplace as well, meaning if it will fit will I get the same results as far as heating efficiency goes?

 

[etiger2007]

I got an Osburn 2000 delivered for $1700, then an employee of mine who does chimney's on the side charged me $1,000 to drop the liner he supplied and rebuild my crown on the chimney. Now that I'm good with burning wood I would have done it myself.

 

[bholler]

really usmc80 3 hours tops? we do 25 to 30 liners a year and I would say that less than 10% of those are 3 hours or less most of the time we allow a whole day for the install and are usually done in about 6 hours unless we have to break out the old liners then it is 7 or 8 hours. but it can absolutely be done diy if you have decant skills are not afraid of heights and follow all of the instructions. although in my biased opinion you should have a pro do it lol

 

[mstoelton]

I was a complete noob to this stuff but I am handy. I know how to do plumbing, and electrical work and was not interested in paying someone for something that I had the tools and time to do. So I spent about 2 weeks lurking on the forum and studying the specs and clearances for the insets I was interested in. It came down to a simple decision for me. I have an elevated hearth and wanted to limit how much the insert intruded into the room. I went with a Clydesdale insert and have been extremely happy with it. It heats my 1600 sq foot basement to 80 degrees and keeps it there as long as I want to sustain the fire.

The clyde is not cheap, but it does a great job. I'm sure that other inserts are equally good.

Some on the forum will tell you that you should go with a stove for more radiant heat, but most inserts either come with a circulating fan that draws air around the unit or have it as an option. The Clyde comes standard with the fan, but if you go with an insert that does no include a fan, you will want the option. Most of these fans work with a thermostat so the fan only runs when the insert is hot so you are not using the fan to circulate around a cold insert.

I am not familiar with the quad 5100 but there are several negative posts about quads and not being able to control them well. Apparently they have an automated start-up sequence that does not always work well.

If you choose to install yourself, make sure you do a few things:

1. Insulated stainless liner is necessary and code in most places
2. seal the top cap
3. make sure the existing chimney is suitable and in good enough condition to use a liner
4. A flue stop plate is recommended by most manufacturers and will provide better heating. Directions to make a flue stop plate are found on this forum
5. Ensure you have adequate clearances to combustibles. Clearances for virtually all currently manufactured stoves and inserts can be found on-line.
6. double check all of your clearances
7. learn how to run your stove
8. start cutting wood now for 2016. oak takes ~2 years to season properly
9. make sure you follow installation directions for your insert
10. Inserts and stoves are heavy the Clyde weighs 550 lbs. Other inserts and stoves weigh less, but they are still heavy. You will need help moving the stove and setting it in place.
11. Make sure your chimney is clean before you install the liner.

 

[NRGarrott]

SeattleRider, I was in your shoes about 4 months ago. I was moving into a new place, and I couldn't afford to burn oil heat, but I also couldn't afford 4k for a woodstove installed. I purchased my my liner for under $400 from rockford chimneys online, and I picked up a Quadrafire 3100i from craigslist for $200. The liner took about 4 hours to install, and if I had to do it again it would take about 1 hour. The insert has been running for about a week now, and the only thing I have found wrong with it is the door gasket is pretty leaky. I ordered a new one with cement for under $50.

 

[USMC80]

really usmc80 3 hours tops? we do 25 to 30 liners a year and I would say that less than 10% of those are 3 hours or less most of the time we allow a whole day for the install and are usually done in about 6 hours unless we have to break out the old liners then it is 7 or 8 hours. but it can absolutely be done diy if you have decant skills are not afraid of heights and follow all of the instructions. although in my biased opinion you should have a pro do it lol

A little exaggeration. They did it in 4 hours. So after watching them and learning on here maybe 6 hours. Point is I would do it myself next time.

 

[bholler]

yeah it really isn't hard and many people can do it themselves. here are some points that are often overlooked

safety first we take the time to set up a work platform on the roof if it is wet snowy or very steep

clean everything completely this means the flue the smoke chamber the smoke shelf and the firebox. if the fire place has been used very heavily this usually takes a half hour to 45 mins

do not ovalise the liner to fit through the throught of the damper cut out the damper frame and remove brick if necessary you should never ovalise it if it is absolutely necessary you need to go with a larger liner to make up for the lost volume

insulate the firebox we usually make the block off plate then cover everything inside the firebox with foil faced ceramic wool this helps reduce heat loss to the fireplace structure.

we always insulate our liners usually for inserts we wrap them but sometimes it makes sense to use pour in cement and vermiculite mix a 6" liner in a 12 by 12 would obviously be wrapped but in an 8 by 12 you bight not fit blanket and if it is to tight break out the liners because if it is that tight you wont get enough insulation in it no matter what you do.

and finally through the whole process check your clearances and make sure you read and understand all of the instructions ahead of time if something isn't clear figure it out ahead of time so you don't have to try to figure it out in the middle of the project

 

[bholler]

as far as stove choice I know allot of people thrilled with their quads. things to look for are the square metal tube in the back just below the baffle in these has been know to crack. quad makes a repair kit for it but check for it and just look every thing over really well check for warped parts and anything that just doesn't look right. make sure the door closes evenly if it isn't tight that can be adjusted but if it isn't even it means something is warped and that cant be fixed

 

[SeattleRider]

Thank you for all the advice, I am planning on getting a liner kit in a couple of months and then have this project completed by summer time.