Another "no heat" stove? 25-pdvc

[Skunk]

So we bought the Englander 25-PDVC to replace an ancient, free wood stove. Supplemental heat from ventless LP heater in the kitchen and plug-in electric heaters (but trying to reduce use of these sources). House is ~1,500sq ft, old and leaky. But we were always able to heat it with wood previously.

The pellet stove is installed in the basement, same location as previous wood stove.
3" exhaust - 1' horiz, followed by a tee, followed by 4' of vert, then 90*, 3' of horiz, into a masonry chimney,
3" intake for <15', all vertical or 45* diagonal, except for a 1' horiz section using the original 1 7/8" flex pipe.


The problem is that the stove isn't putting out very much heat at all. About a foot in front of the stove, where the air blows out, it's warm. Step away, or even alongside / behind, and warmth falls off quickly. The fire seems to be burning well. Pellets were burning completely; ash is excellent. We kept the stove at 5 & 5 heat / fan for most of the time yesterday.

We finished installing it yesterday, dumped 40lb of pellets in at 4pm and when I woke up to check it at 9am, it was off. My father checked at 6am and it must have been burning, so the 40lb of pellets lasted somewhere 14-17 hours.

Right now the stove is at 9 & 9, and the basement is not comfortable, let alone the 1st + 2nd stories. It's been two hours, so I would at least expect the immediate area around the stove to be warm.

Outside temperatures were in the 30s, dropping into the 20s - teens overnight. Inside temps were on the fringe of comfortable, maybe low 60s. And the LP heater, turned to it's lowest setting, was probably the reason it stayed that warm.

After searching over hearth.com, I found several accounts of people having mysteriously lackluster performance, returning the stove, and the replacement working perfectly. What I wonder is what would make the stove not heat, if everything points to it functioning properly?? Would rather avoid hauling the 300lb stove back up the basement stairs, into the truck, and back to the store.

Also, just to confirm... The bottom three buttons (low fuel feed, low burn air) are only for when the stove's heat setting is on 1 or 2, correct? Or do they affect things regardless of the heat setting? I could not find a definitive post by Mike Holton / another company representative. But still looking through posts so might come across it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[cntbill]

Wow 9-9 and no heat? If I set mine up to that I could never stand within 3 feet of it...

Sound as if all your heat is going out the chimney.

There is a steel plate that fits above the fire box and latches / hooks above. Is the plate there and if so is it hooked and does it fit flush?

The three buttons on the bottom, the only one that I change is the Low Feed one for the variance of pellets. And from the best of my knowledge The Low Feed is for speeds 1 and 2 only. Call Englander up and they will be happy to explain and run you through the settings.

 

[HD41]

The three buttons only affect burning in settings 1 and 2. The feed can be increased by adjusting the plate in the bottom of the hopper however I would get a good reading on the amount of fuel used over time at a given setting and contact Englander customer service to get their recommendations. Based upon posts I have seen the most effective installations are on the floor that needs the heat, a basement install of a pellet stove replacing a wood stove has limitations because a lot of heat is absorbed there and little reaches the upper floors.

 

[pennichuck]

i have this same stove and an 100 year old englander house around 1500 sq ft...mine is in the living room and it heats the downstairs into the 70's an the upstairs about 7 degrees cooler. I believe i would be in the same situation as yourself if my stove was in the basement.. no way would it heat all that granite and have any left over for the rest of the house. These stoves arent designed to be installed in the basement like a woodstove. Woodstoves put out way more radiant heat, so they do a much better job of heating concrete ect.. the pellet stove just puts out hot air..move it to the first floor it will work much better..and use far less pellets.

when mine is on 9 + 9 the air coming out of the left front of the stove is very hot and the steel on the front of the stove reaches into the 380 deg range.

 

[Skunk]

Wow 9-9 and no heat? If I set mine up to that I could never stand within 3 feet of it...

Sound as if all your heat is going out the chimney.

There is a steel plate that fits above the fire box and latches / hooks above. Is the plate there and if so is it hooked and does it fit flush?

Plate is in place and sitting flush. Noticed heat haze from the top of the chimney. But the pellet pipe remains at about that point where you're able to touch it for a 1/2 second... (what does that translate into degree-wise? ;-) )

I'll take a thermometer to it shortly.

I wasn't aware of the adjustable plate at the bottom of the hopper till reading posts on here, just cleared out the hopper and checked it, it's about 1/2 open for what that's worth.

Disconnecting the intake so that it was 6' of 3" had no visible effect.

Here's a shot of the ash left after burning the stove for 5 hours today, and the flame at 5 - 5. I wouldn't describe the fire as lazy, it's practically the opposite. Looks drafty inside, wisping upwards past the point where you can see through the window. (At least on 9..)

If the stove is operating properly and this is a case of improper application, then... doh. The wood stove had the distinct advantage of being able to heat the entire house, basement (and plumbing) included.

 

[cdodge04]

I had this same exact problem with a PDV...I took that thing back to the place I got it and got a new one.

 

[Skunk]

I had this same exact problem with a PDV...I took that thing back to the place I got it and got a new one.

It seemed to be working perfectly fine but wasn't putting out much heat? Do you have any idea why? I found several threads on hearth.com with similar experiences, but it doesn't make much sense. I don't know if that's the issue, or if I had inflated / wrong expectations.

 

[EWILT]

I have the PDV...basement install (1550 sq ft) it heats the basement up rather well. I might add I'm not 100% insulated either. My burn pot looks the same as yours after several hours of burning. The PDV is larger but I'd think yours should heat better than that though. I will add that the more insulation I add the better the stove heated, so if you have a draft....just some more info for you.

EW

 

[cntbill]

Here is a couple of photos I just took of my stove as an example and to show where I have a thermometer to monitor temps.

At the moment the stove is set to 1 for heat and 5 for the fan, the low feed to 4 and the low air to 9. The thermometer shows that it is 200*.

At this moment I am using Penningtons Nature's Heat pellests, I had to set the LF up to 4 for these. A couple weeks ago I was using Hammers Hot One's and set my LF to 3 and LA to 8 and had about a 10* increase of temp. on my thermometer. And Last week I was using Freedom Fuel by Natures Earth that I pick up at the local HD and had to set the LF to 5 and just barly getting 170* out of it and even had to put the room fan down to 4 and I seem to have more ash build up as well. So pellets and LF, LA make a big difference for my stove at the 1 setting.

Stove is in the basement about 1200 Sq FT unfinished and the cinder block acts as a huge heat sink, the ceiling is insulated between the floor joists (1st floor)

Temps at this moment is 72* basement at the other end, and upstairs living area is 68*, outside it is about 35*, the stove is on the low settings,

Don't know if this helps a whole lot but it might give you some idea what to expect and then what to expect with different pellets.

 

[Skunk]

Just an update to tonight's situation -

Outside temp is 28*, basement temp is 56* - measured almost directly above the stove about 4' away. It's slightly warmer in the sweet spot in front, and cooler in the farther corner of the room. Basement measures 12'x18', with an additional 9'x8' crawl space (housing water pump) opposite side of the room from the stove. This is with temp & fan settings at 7 for the past few hours. Stone / cement walls, ceiling (1st floor) uninsulated. One door, blocked off w/ plastic sheath insulation stuff. Two small eyebrow windows, no noticeable drafts.

Let's put it this way - how hot can you get the room your pellet stove is in? We aren't looking for mid 70s on the 2nd floor, but it's not breaking 60 in the basement. I understand the missing radiation as opposed to a wood stove, but thought the pellet would be able to keep the basement comfortable enough and it would rise. First and second stories are warmer courtesy of the LP heater tonight.

Thinking a call to England's Stove Works will be necessary tomorrow, possibly Lowes' to see if there's a chance of exchange. There is room for the stove on the 1st floor, but want to make sure it's working right no matter where it is. Then we'll still need to keep the basement from freezing.

 

[EWILT]

Last night it was -9 at my house in Cheyenne Wy...I had my PDV on 5 and 9. When I got up in the early AM it was chilly down in the basement however, not cold. I think the temp was right around 70 close to the stove also. I cranked it up to 7, took a shower and went down to fill turn down to 4 and I left. Wife said it was 68 upstairs when she got up three hours later. My house is 3100 sq ft. Stove is in the basement 60% finished with some exposed concrete walls and the whole floor is exposed. It's a walkout with a few windows and 1500 sq ft. I would think unless you have a bad draft, which you stated it's not that bad your heat output should be better. One thing I have found out is there is no two similar scenario or houses. Most of the basement is wide open as well. Hope this helps.

EW

 

[donkarlos]

hey Bill.. and Ewilt,
my basement install sounds very similar but 900 sq ft in basement and 900 on first (only) floor. my pdvc is on 1 and 3 and upstairs is 69 +. basement is very warm. glad to know there are others with successful basement installs. question : do you use fans (typo) to move the heat? I don't - it just blows up the stairway on its own..

 

[cntbill]

Skunk - Your heat output temperatures are miserable in my opinion, and I would defiantly call Englander to see what they have to say.

donkarlos - Not sure what you mean by "deans", but last year just pretty much relied on the natural draft from the stairway as you and worked ok. This year I made some changes, here is the link to the thread rather then repeat it all here:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/22307/

My only regret is that I used 3" vent pipe instead of 4" because after finding out here on this forum my total length calculates to 17'

Ewilt - Wow -9 burrrrrrrr but it seems your stove is doing a nice fair job heating 3100 sq ft, especially when you consider that most pellet stoves are considered "space" heaters.

 

[ResOps]

wow thats cold in the basement if the stoves there. We have 980 sq ft downstairs and the same upstairs. The stove is mounted downstairs, which is usually around 80 85 at this time of the year. The upstairs is anywhere from 68 - 71 depending on outdoor temp (currently 3 degrees). But we do have the fan on the furnace running on low 7/24 to circulate the heat via cold air return so that helps.
But in any case your basement should be much warmer than that

 

[EWILT]

I use a muffin fan in the doorway to the upstairs and turn on the furnace fan once every couple hours. I will be cutting a hole directly above the stove and installing a Air Flow Breeze. When it's in anywhere between 20-45 out, the basement is too hot so I want to get more heat upstairs. My house is new and there's a ton of insulation in the attic, back to the original post...call Mike @ Englander and get your stove dialed in. Like I said before there are no two homes/floorplans and even stoves identical. Call'em up and get it dialed in!

EWILT

 

[slls]

Quote Thinking a call to England’s Stove Works will be necessary tomorrow, possibly Lowes’ to see if there’s a chance of exchange. There is room for the stove on the 1st floor, but want to make sure it’s working right no matter where it is. Then we’ll still need to keep the basement from freezing. Quote

My cellar has no heat at all, stove is in the living room. It has been as low as 10 deg F, have thermometer next to water meter, lowest it has shown is 49 deg F.

 

[Skunk]

Thanks for that reassurance slls. Is your cellar unfinished?

I do believe that we're 90% likely to move the stove to the first floor. There is a porch area, currently closed off from the house and uninsulated, which would make a spectacular location for the pellet stove. Just googled the r-value of poured concrete: an asinine .08 per inch. Fighting against that is pretty ridiculous and finishing the porch will be less effort / more optimal than finishing / insulating the basement.

Spoke with Englander tech today, he was helpful for what it's worth. We played with the bottom three settings - set it to 6-9-1. He also did state that the 3 bottom settings do affect the operation of the stove regardless of the main heat setting. (I found an earlier thread w/ someone who said their Englander tech line guy said the same thing. Could anyone point me to where Mike Holton says otherwise on this forum, or will he chime in here? I'm v. curious now.)

Final attempt at heating the basement: heat / fan at 9-9, bottom buttons at 6-9-1, temp in basement ranging from 64 overhead to 60 at the far end (small fan circulating the hot air). Stove temp (thermo placed same as Bill...'s pic) nearing 400* - similar heat as pennichuck. LOL.

Thanks a lot for every response, guys.

 

[HD41]

This is a cut and paste of Mike Holton's response to a question about the Three Buttons.

petejung - 04 December 2007 02:35 PM
So, can anyone provide a good explanation of what the Low Fuel Feed, Low Burn Air, and Air on Temp buttons do? People talk about them on here all the time, but I’ve not yet seen an explanation of what those buttons are for, or how they affect the operation of the unit…

ok pete , here is the scoop:
“low fuel feed” controls the cycle “on” time of the top auger when the unit is set on its lowest heat ranges “1 and 2” does not affect the unit when the unit is set higher than that. the higher the number the longer the on cycle (the more fuel it feeds)
“low burn air” controls the amount of combustion air pulled through the fire on (you guessed it ) heat ranges “1 and 2” higher the number the more air
“air on temp” this setting does affect the unit in all heat ranges, it determines all of the temperature related functions of the unit (ie. when to turn on the room fan, when to recognise “proof of fire” when to allow the unit to turn off as it cools down during shutdown or out of fuel) this setting should always be left on “1”
note to readers: IMPORTANT not every model or every year of build will use the same settings, i know (off the top of my head) what the settings should be for any unit we have ever produced using that control board , so dont set your unit like your buddies is unless the dates and model numbers match! ASK ME otherwise. if the settings on the unit are off in the wrong way they can seriously mess with burn times as well as how clean it burns
Signature
mike holton
england’s stove works inc.
[email protected]
[email protected] “homework"email addy , use in summer months
saving the world, one stove at a time

 

[slls]

[quote Thanks for that reassurance slls. Is your cellar unfinished?Quote]

Unfinished , concrete walls.