Any advice for draft control for less heat up the chimney and more in the house?

[Keepitwarm]

I've got a Regency Hearth heater h2100 in a zero clearance box and a fairly tight house. I don't seem to get very good burns unless the draft control is wide open. I'm very new to burning in a stove and trying to absorb as much information as possible. I have been waiting until the stove top temps get to around 450 F and then closing the draft control halfway and then gradually trying to close it more. I really want to get and maintain those secondary burns and stop throwing all my hard earned heat out the chimney. The problem is that within 20 minutes of closing down the draft control my temps begin to drop down and I lose most of my flames unless I throw open the draft control again. I'm looking for any advice or solutions.

I'm burning ash that seems dry. (I don't have a moisture meter yet). I have a bunch of splits that are a year old, but I've also tried burning the kiln dried wood from the big box stores as well as that wood brick fuel and had similar results so I don't believe it's just my wood supply.

Any thoughts?

 

[DougA]

More flame does not equal more heat. I don't have a Regency but typically most stoves will be producing a lot of heat with minimal flame once the air is closed down.

If the heat is not being produced when you close the air, the most likely cause is the wood. You need to buy a moisture meter and be sure. You should be able to get one for $20. on sale. Don't count on anything being 'dry enough' until you meter it. A year old split should be great if it is ash or pine and stored correctly but if it's elm, oak, maple, etc. it will not be dry enough at all. It needs 2+ years.

Older stoves are much less picky on what 'dry' means. Newer stoves can be a PITA unless you are 20% or below. When you get a meter, make sure you re-split a number of pieces and push the pins in very hard to take the measurement in the middle area.

 

[Keepitwarm]

More flame does not equal more heat. I don't have a Regency but typically most stoves will be producing a lot of heat with minimal flame once the air is closed down.

If the heat is not being produced when you close the air, the most likely cause is the wood. You need to buy a moisture meter and be sure. You should be able to get one for $20. on sale. Don't count on anything being 'dry enough' until you meter it. A year old split should be great if it is ash or pine and stored correctly but if it's elm, oak, maple, etc. it will not be dry enough at all. It needs 2+ years.

That's good advice for sure. I think Santa is bringing me a moisture meter. Again, I'm super new to this so I may have misinterpreted what I've read here on other posts. I thought I had to keep my stove top between 400-600F to keep creosote down. I was just concerned because as soon as I damper down the draft control my temps drop off soon after. If I'm cruising at 450 and climbing it'll be at 375 and falling within 30 minutes or so after starting to close draft control. I've even had that with the kiln dried stuff.

I just didn't know if there was something I'm missing with regards to how and when to close down draft control. Or then again maybe it was air supply issue with the house. Thanks again for helping. This forum is amazing.

 

[begreen]

In the early stage of the fire, while the wood is outgassing, as you close down the primary air control, secondary combustion will increase. That will make the stove top hotter. Most stoves with the proper height chimney (or liner) will run well with the air control almost all the way closed. Try it with your next fire. Close down the air in steps, when the stove is cooler, say 300F on the stove top. Close it down until the flames slow down and start to get lazy. Then wait for 5-10 minutes for the flames to regain vigor and close it down again until the flames get lazy. Rinse and repeat until either the air control is all the way closed or the flames stay lazy. You don't need or want raging yellow and orange flames to get a hot stove. When they just sort of waft over the top of the logs and out of the secondary ports with a blue tinge you are getting a hotter burn.

 

[blades]

Grocery store( & similar bundels) kiln dried is really not kiln dried but baked for a few hours to kill bugs. ie internal temperature raised to 160-180 degs for x hours. It can take several days or more at those temps to truly dry splits out depending on the cross sectional width and density of the species. Kiln dried in all but a very few cases is just a marketing ploy. Oh for sure it is a bit drier than fresh split green particularly on the out side- what counts though is the middle. The compressed bricks do not off gas all that long kinda a flash in the pan type of thing. One or two of those and then your wood on top works pretty well for those with questionable wood, internal moisture wise. Even though you might not see bubbling or sizzling at the end of questionable wood splits, rest assured that the excess moisture in the fuel is causing things to cool down quickly. Also not if you have a blower on your stove that that also cools things down , on my own unit -no blower 600+ blower on readings are 150 to 200+ degrees cooler externally on the stove - so inside is going to be cooler also as you are pulling the heat away to maintain those secondaries. Also varies with species of fuel.

 

[slayer7]

Like Begreen said, if the wood and draft are good, the stove temp should INCREASE when you cut the air back. I usually follow this procedure with my insert: Fill firebox either on coals or with firestarter if cold - air is full open and door cracked. Wait for wood to become fairly engulfed, good fire going in the box - close door (usually 10-15 mins, temp about 200-300*). Flame may stall down for a minute or two (or not) depending on wood quality. Flame then intensifies and temperature rises (about another 5-10mins). About now, temp is up to @500* and I cut back air to about 1/3 and turn blower on. Flames tamp down a little then intensify again (approx. another 5 mins.) Now, the stove top is between 550-600* and I'm able to cut the air all the way down with the stove staying in the 500-600* temp range for several hours until most of the wood has outgassed and is going into the coal stage. If I'm too slow cutting the air back or the wood is really nice and dry, the temp will rise into the 600s for some amount of time. So you shouldn't be seeing the temp drop you are describing unless something is wrong. Btw...I clean the liner every year and only get a small can of creosote coffee grounds which mostly comes from the very top by the cap, even after burning some amount of pine and semi-questionable "chunks and uglies" in the shoulder seasons.

 

[TheRambler]

I have found with my hampton h300 that it doesn't like the gradual air shutdown. Instead i let it burn with air wide open for around 5-15 minutes until the wood is burning good and then immediately close the draft fully and open it just a very small amount. Secondaries then will usually take over and i am done until its time for a reload. If it dies out in 5-10 minutes after closing the air then i will open the air again for a few minutes and then close down again, always leaving it open just a tiby bit unless its really cold out and the draft is really strong.

Since i started doing this it has worked much better, and i have yet to have to repeat the "process" more than twice after a reload. I pretty much always am able to have it shutdown to where i want it within 30 minutes or so.

 

[begreen]

It depends on the wood and draft. I often find that I can close the air down in two steps. But I have very dry wood and have been doing this for awhile. For beginners the trick is to watch the fire as well as the temp. Get used to reading the fire by its flame.

 

[Keepitwarm]

Thanks for all of the great replies. I will definitely try all of your suggestions. I think I definitely need to have wood that's a little more seasoned, but I am finding that even with kiln dried or those wood fuel bricks I'm having trouble getting and certainly maintaining high temps (400-600) unless I run wide open. I have been going mostly by stove top temps instead of watching the flame so I think I'll take begreen's advice and focus on the flame some more.

If it's either wood or air supply I'm thinking that at least some of it is the fact that my house is fairly tight. When I close draft control I can almost watch the fire starve. Do you think I should open the window some or is there something else I should be doing to increase air?

 

[slayer7]

Opening a window near the stove during a restart will definitely be a good test to see if it is starving for air. If your house is that tight you might need an OAK (Outdoor Air Kit) for your stove to run properly. If you do the test with the window open and there's little/no change to how the stove's burning, I would return to suspecting the wood or draft. I didn't see anywhere that you mentioned your chimney set up (liner, connections, height, roof situation, etc.) A description or pics of your install might shed further light on the issue.

 

[Keepitwarm]

Opening a window near the stove during a restart will definitely be a good test to see if it is starving for air. If your house is that tight you might need an OAK (Outdoor Air Kit) for your stove to run properly. If you do the test with the window open and there's little/no change to how the stove's burning, I would return to suspecting the wood or draft. I didn't see anywhere that you mentioned your chimney set up (liner, connections, height, roof situation, etc.) A description or pics of your install might shed further light on the issue.

Hey slayer7,
Thanks for the reply. The old Superior fireplace that this insert sits in had an OAK but I was told by the installer to cover it up as the regency hearth heater I've got now draws entirely from inside air. I could always unseal it if need be. I just wasn't sure how my new insert would be drawing air from the chase when it's seated entirely on the hearth. I am still a newbie though so I'm open to new information.

My set up is a double wall insulated stainless steel liner in a prefab fireplace. It's 25 ft. I don't have pics to post right now, but I will try later today.

Another question that I'm just now realizing that I have is what is the difference between air supply and draft. I guess I had been incorrectly interchangeably using the terms. Seems I have way more to learn than I first thought.

 

[saskwoodburner]

Another question that I'm just now realizing that I have is what is the difference between air supply and draft. I guess I had been incorrectly interchangeably using the terms. Seems I have way more to learn than I first thought.

Another newbie here, so take my advice for what it's worth. The air supply is how your stove gets it's air to feed the fire. There's an inlet somewhere on the stove, and it'll pull air either from inside the house, or it will have a hose called outside air kit running through the wall, and will pull it's air from the outdoors.

Draft is like a vacuum (in my mind anyways). Think of how hot air rises and cold air drops. When you get the stove and your pipe warmed up, it makes that hot air want to rise quicker, as if the stove is pushing it up, or your chimney is pulling it up. For some reason, the colder the air outside the chimney creates a better draft. Smarter people will tell you why, I just know that it it does.

 

[Keepitwarm]

Another newbie here, so take my advice for what it's worth. The air supply is how your stove gets it's air to feed the fire. There's an inlet somewhere on the stove, and it'll pull air either from inside the house, or it will have a hose called outside air kit running through the wall, and will pull it's air from the outdoors.

Draft is like a vacuum (in my mind anyways). Think of how hot air rises and cold air drops. When you get the stove and your pipe warmed up, it makes that hot air want to rise quicker, as if the stove is pushing it up, or your chimney is pulling it up. For some reason, the colder the air outside the chimney creates a better draft. Smarter people will tell you why, I just know that it it does.

Thanks for that. Very simply put.

 

[slayer7]

Another newbie here, so take my advice for what it's worth. The air supply is how your stove gets it's air to feed the fire. There's an inlet somewhere on the stove, and it'll pull air either from inside the house, or it will have a hose called outside air kit running through the wall, and will pull it's air from the outdoors.

Draft is like a vacuum (in my mind anyways). Think of how hot air rises and cold air drops. When you get the stove and your pipe warmed up, it makes that hot air want to rise quicker, as if the stove is pushing it up, or your chimney is pulling it up. For some reason, the colder the air outside the chimney creates a better draft. Smarter people will tell you why, I just know that it it does.

Yeah, that about sums it about. Draft is like the amount of "suction" that you have between the appliance and the outside air through the liner/chimney which is generated by the difference in air temperatures. So it is affected by the temp of the air inside and outside, the height of your chimney/liner, the amount of bends in a liner (if present), the placement of chimney in relation to roof and surrounding objects (3-2-10 rule, see here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/define-the-3-2-10-rule-please.12480/), and the amount of air available to feed the fire from the appliance side (inside air or OAK) among some other minor things I might have missed. If you have poor draft, the fire doesn't burn good, there could be back-puffing of smoke and your overall experience will be less than stellar. With your 25ft liner, there should theoretically be plenty of draft. Some liners that are less than 15' sometimes don't draft well. It is still possible that your house is too tight to provide sufficient air flow to the stove or an appliance that is running (like a dryer) is competing for available air and creating a vacuum condition. You should be able to rule this in or out with the "window test". I don't know what the weather is like in Chester, PA right now but if it has been on the warm side, that can also put a "damper" on your draft as well (less differential between inside and outside air).