Ashford 30 -2 months old door hinge smoke smell

[aaronk25]

So I bought this stove as it appeared to be the best stove to buy and love most things about it except that when trying to use the low burn features the room smelled like smoke. I've read every thread on here I could find about others that had these issues and take even a few more steps trying to correct the problem.

The smoke smell only comes when running under level 2 on the thermostat. Called and talked to BK Corp, and was told that engineering always points back to a draft issue so I Bought myself a manometer and checked draft and on low I'm getting .05 which is where it should be on high and that was at 30f. On high im getting .10 which is to much draft so the good thing is I think we can rule out a chimney draft as a issue. I've taken apart the entire door assembly glass and and even applied high temp silicone behind the glass retainer gasket thinking that smoke is getting behind it and that didn't solve it either. I've even adjusted the latch assembly so tight that the door barley latches and it would most likely pass the dollar pull test by a factor or 2. The rope seal is heavily indented and seating perfectly.

Like the others I've read about if the stove is turned up to 2 or higher the smoke smell goes away. The smoke smell is the worst at 1-1.5 but gets even more pronounced if the fans a ran at high with the thermostat at 1.0. Not sure if that is because it is carrying the smoke away or creating a low pressure area around the door assembly making the problem worst by sucking the smell/smoke out. It is I think a smoking gun that when ran on low, even with wood only in back of the stove that the glass gets dirty only on far sides of the glass, indicating that there is a air pattern carrying smoke to the edge of the door right up to the rope seal on both the latch and hinge side but it only stinks on the hinge side.

Moisture content is .12 burning oak.

Has anyone figured this out yet?

Thanks you.

It

Any ideas on where to go from here?

 

[webby3650]

The dirty glass pattern is normal for a low burn. Also oak at 12% MC is very very low.. very hard to accomplish without a kiln.
That was a fresh split piece at room temperature?
How tall is your chimney? What's the setup like?

 

[aaronk25]

In the garage stacked dry for a couple years. Grabbed the driest stuff I had to see if it made a difference most of the wood is upper teens m.c.

The wood was at about 50 as its was in the garage which was heated.

Brand new chimney. Double wall black pipe up 4' then 2-45 degree angles together to make a small off set and then 2-30 degrees to make another off set then 21' straight up rising 5' above the house with a Deluxe super vent cap to improve draft.
I was thinking the bends might be the problem but given even at 1 the lowest setting the draft is at the highest end allowable buy BK for the stove. At 3 the draft exceeds where it should be.

I have no problem with the glass sooting up as it burns off when run on high for 20 min but the interesting thing was the soot extends all the way over to the hinge side of the glass which is where the stink comes from.

 

[aaronk25]

Couple pics of the set up from inside. Class A super vent chimney. The bends might actually help my over draft condition given that the overdraft measurement was taken at 30f. At -20f I better get the damper in.

 

[begreen]

This has been noted by others. The cause is not clear. One speculation is that the door gasket may be getting saturated with creosote and smelling.

 

[Niko]

I used to get that smell once in a while on my king. I never really run the stove on a high temp so i get more build up in the box. So at night once every 4 days maybe less maybe more id let the stove burn on high for a good 40-60 min or more to burn all the creo out of it. Once you do that your smell should go away.

maybe you have some nice creo build up in your stove pipe?

 

[aaronk25]

This has been happening since I first tried lower burn settings which was about the 3rd day I got the stove and the chimney was installed new with the stove. The gasket doesn't appear saturated and if backed down from high to low setting within 15 min it stinks. Given dropping 6k for the complete investment of the new chimney and stove and doin things the right way I'm gonna be sick if I can't get this performing right, it's such a good stove.

As another data point it only smells when the air flap closes down. If the fire is running out of wood to burn but the flap is open because the thermostat isn't satisfied it doesn't stink at all. I think it's got somthing to do with CFM moving though the stove. The higher air velocity must keep the smoke off the glass where the lower allows it saturate the glass edge/rope with smoke.

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[begreen]

Are there nuts for the glass gasket retainer under the door gasket?

 

[aaronk25]

Are there nuts for the glass gasket retainer under the door gasket?

Yes there were which were all tight before disassembling them, removing and the putting high temp silicone behind the retainer, reinstalling the nuts coating the nuts and threads in sealant to ensure that the smoke couldn't travel though the clearance hole for the stud. Gonna be a pain to dig them out of the sealant but want to stop any path for smoke.


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[begreen]

I am wondering if those nuts affect the sealing of the door gasket. Not sure, but it is a less common design.

 

[aaronk25]

I am wondering if those nuts affect the sealing of the door gasket. Not sure, but it is a less common design.

Ya not sure placed continuous silicone in the retainer to bond the back of the seal and to the nuts to ensue the back was sealed and to pre-load the rope seal out just a bit so it would provide a tighter seal on the hinge side of the door since that side is not adjustable, only the latch side.

Thanks by the way for the thoughts and helping. I want so bad to but I'm not going to but installing a deflector that is welded to the air wash angle that would be a part of the stove not the door to direct airflow over the glass and rope area by the hinge. I think that's the difference between low and high is that on high there is enough airflow where the laminar flow of air stays on the entire door and hits the brick/silk area where on low the air stay on 1/2 the door and smoke comes into direct contact with the rope seal and leaches through.


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[aaronk25]

One thing I'm seeing now is the white build up near where the rope seam is located at and wondering if that where the smoke is getting by? Maybe I order a spare rope and relocate the splice/seam to the middle on the bottom and see if it makes a difference. The indentation is so deep in the rope it's hard to believe it would be leaking there.

 

[webby3650]

Ya not sure placed continuous silicone in the retainer to bond the back of the seal and to the nuts to ensue the back was sealed and to pre-load the rope seal out just a bit so it would provide a tighter seal on the hinge side of the door since that side is not adjustable, only the latch side.

Thanks by the way for the thoughts and helping. I want so bad to but I'm not going to but installing a deflector that is welded to the air wash angle that would be a part of the stove not the door to direct airflow over the glass and rope area by the hinge. I think that's the difference between low and high is that on high there is enough airflow where the laminar flow of air stays on the entire door and hits the brick/silk area where on low the air stay on 1/2 the door and smoke comes into direct contact with the rope seal and leaches through.


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Don't go modifying the stove. It's early..

I'm pretty sure the stud length was a concern on some earlier models. Maybe trimming down the stud length would allow the gasket to compress fully?
I had one the first Ashfords in use, I didn't have this issue, some did. No elbows certainly helped with my draft.

 

[aaronk25]

Thanks for the reply. When the nuts are fully torqued the stud is flush with the face of the nut. They did a good job with that revision.

There might be someone on the forum who is a expert in draft I just don't know how I couldn't have enough draft given I'm at the top end of draft limits.

Thinking out loud there are 2 factors in chimney performance. 1st pressure drop measured with the manometer measuring the pressure difference between the room and the inside of the chimney and velocity which only could be measured with a cfm devise or pitot tube like on a aircraft. When the door is shut with .05 of water column pressure drop the chimney is sucking hard against the stove (air flapper) pulling like a John Deere and even if the chimney did a cork screw if it's got .05 of pull against the stove it's doing its job. The amount of time to get to ultimate velocity would be affected by bends which would show up in the amount of time it would require to wait to open the door after cracking it in order to not have smoke spillage as more bends would take the flue longer to get velocity up. I don't know got off on a tangent I guess just want to get it fixed.


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[Blazing]

Thanks for the reply. When the nuts are fully torqued the stud is flush with the face of the nut. They did a good job with that revision.

There might be someone on the forum who is a expert in draft I just don't know how I couldn't have enough draft given I'm at the top end of draft limits.

Thinking out loud there are 2 factors in chimney performance. 1st pressure drop measured with the manometer measuring the pressure difference between the room and the inside of the chimney and velocity which only could be measured with a cfm devise or pitot tube like on a aircraft. When the door is shut with .05 of water column pressure drop the chimney is sucking hard against the stove (air flapper) pulling like a John Deere and even if the chimney did a cork screw if it's got .05 of pull against the stove it's doing its job. The amount of time to get to ultimate velocity would be affected by bends which would show up in the amount of time it would require to wait to open the door after cracking it in order to not have smoke spillage as more bends would take the flue longer to get velocity up. I don't know got off on a tangent I guess just want to get it fixed.


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I just have to give props to a person who is off the chart smart and tried to fix the problem. Maybe @BKVP can chime in on this.

 

[pdxdave]

I think it's safe to say at this point there is ample evidence that this particular stove simply has an issue.

 

[Woody Stover]

I'm pretty sure the stud length was a concern on some earlier models.

the stud is flush with the face of the nut. They did a good job with that revision.

The title says "Ashford 30," but "2 months old" leads me to believe this is a 30.1, correct?

 

[moresnow]

Must be somewhat normal to get the stink as mine will as well when turned waaay down. I've kinda been wondering if it isn't smoke/creo stink escaping the cat probe hole up top. Fans blow it towards the front and whala. Everybody thinks it's the door gasket. I went to look at a used unit once and that owner complained how the stove stunk the place up in the off season? I looked inside and . That stove was fully loaded with wet appearing drippy creo! No wonder they had trouble. Possibly a bit more hot burn time and not turning the stat soooo far down will cure the issue? Actually I have figured out that my setup is only capable of running so low without stink. I like the cat probe to read 1/3,1/2 up the scale early in the burn. Anything less on the cat probe early on and its burning to slow. And stinks. Thinking about pulling the cat probe and covering the hole for a load as a experiment. Not that I am suffering from a irritating stink often. FWIW.

 

[blueguy]

Things I would check:

The weld on the knife edge around the door on the hinge side - was it ground smooth or is there a prominent ridge where it was welded?

Where is the door gasket joint? If it's in the middle of the hinge side of the door, move it down to the lower left corner per the manual.

Take the stove adapter off the connector pipe and try using just a 6" length slid right down over the collar.

I had the smoke smell issue as well, and correcting all of what I've put here corrected it. I also have high draft, so it's not a draft issue per se.

Must be somewhat normal to get the stink as mine will as well when turned waaay down. I've kinda been wondering if it isn't smoke/creo stink escaping the cat probe hole up top. Fans blow it towards the front and whala. Everybody thinks it's the door gasket. I went to look at a used unit once and that owner complained how the stove stunk the place up in the off season? I looked inside and . That stove was fully loaded with wet appearing drippy creo! No wonder they had trouble. Possibly a bit more hot burn time and not turning the stat soooo far down will cure the issue? Actually I have figured out that my setup is only capable of running so low without stink. I like the cat probe to read 1/3,1/2 up the scale early in the burn. Anything less on the cat probe early on and its burning to slow. And stinks. Thinking about pulling the cat probe and covering the hole for a load as a experiment. Not that I am suffering from a irritating stink often. FWIW.

It's not coming from the probe hole. I thought this at first as well. As far as the creo in the box, the stink in the off season is most likely from reversed draft - covering the air intake solves the issue. Dripping creo in the box affects nothing.

 

[webby3650]

I think it's safe to say at this point there is ample evidence that this particular stove simply has an issue.

Keep in mind that hearth.com only represents a very small fraction of the wood burning community. Out of tens of thousands of units a few have made their way to this site looking for an answer. They don't all have issues.

 

[webby3650]

The title says "Ashford 30," but "2 months old" leads me to believe this is a 30.1, correct?

I assumed that as well, just starting with the basics.

 

[Deeje]

I also have a 2 month old Ashford 30.1 with the same exact problem. Any time I turn the stove low, I get a very sweet smoky smell coming from the left (hinge) side. Looked all over and haven't found a solution. Draft and gasket are good. Door seal is tight. I'd like to see BK chime in on this issue because the number of occurrences I see among the small proportion of Ashford owners who post on this forum tells me this is a widespread issue.

 

[aaronk25]

Things I would check:

The weld on the knife edge around the door on the hinge side - was it ground smooth or is there a prominent ridge where it was welded?

Where is the door gasket joint? If it's in the middle of the hinge side of the door, move it down to the lower left corner per the manual.

Take the stove adapter off the connector pipe and try using just a 6" length slid right down over the collar.

I had the smoke smell issue as well, and correcting all of what I've put here corrected it. I also have high draft, so it's not a draft issue per se.







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Thanks for the help! I'll check on the knife condition tonight when the fire is low.

The stove pipe adapter is difficult because I can't get the double wall inside pipe to fit to the stove as the collar on the stove is to thick. I remember the inside pipe of the double wall landed directly in the center of the 1/4" thick stove collar. Is there another pipe I could by that would mate with the SuperVent double wall pipe? With the excessive draft and couple inches of overlap between the stove collar and adapter what is the thought process about how the smoke could get out?


I'll move the door gasket as described too, thanks.

 

[black smoke signals]

I'm sure professionals chimney sweeps have electronic detectors for checking co levels by sniffing the stove and pipe to ceiling. Finding the root cause for smoke leaks has been a concern of mine too. I'm sure stove manufacturers have to pressure check there stoves you would think.

 

[black smoke signals]

Smoke matches from local heating might help you find a leak on a cold stove.