Bad install?
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Ctwoodtick
Minister of Fire
My amateur eye says that you clearly have a case for the dealer to have the job redone. As said above, this time specify that the liner is to be fully insulated from top to bottom. While your at it ( and while this will be redone anyway), I’d double check that the fireplace and chimney are nice and clean. These guys likely cut corners there too. You might choose to have them do the block off plate, but first make sure that they are doing the job proper before that seal it up with block off plate. You want rockwool type insulation in that area above the block off plate, not fiberglass insulation.
Some of your new “add-ins” may cost more than you originally agreed to pay but you should just be able to pay them the difference, as their work appears to suck, even to the untrained eye.
Some of your new “add-ins” may cost more than you originally agreed to pay but you should just be able to pay them the difference, as their work appears to suck, even to the untrained eye.
I would look for an independent installer that has a good reputation and have them give you an estimate to correct the installation. Bring that to the dealer and ask for a refund of that value. If they send the same group back it will likely be hacked up somewhere that you can’t see in an attempt to save money.
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
Good for you on everything you've done so far, the inspection of the stove as well.as the email to the store. Its best to refrain from insults as it puts most people off and they don't want to help. Sorry your install was crappy. A reputable store will fix this and give them the opportunity to prior pore reviews and stuff like that..
Just as a follow up. I had an email back from the dealer at 7am and a Monday morning appointment by 9am. He sounded pissed that the installers did such a garbage job. I just sent him over a list of questions about insulated liners, block off plates, rock wool, and how do I know they didn’t do a garbage job up top.
It seems to me like they are going to make it right. We will see what his response to those specific questions are and what they do to make it right.
It seems to me like they are going to make it right. We will see what his response to those specific questions are and what they do to make it right.
Ctwoodtick
Minister of Fire
That’s good news. I’ll be curious to see how they respond to your specific questions.
Be polite, but make clear that you now have concerns about the whole job, including what can't be seen. Note that in addition to rock wool, kaowool (ceramic insulation) is also acceptable. It's white.
Ok so here is what I believe to be the final update.
They guys showed up today and they were the same guys that did the half assed install on Friday. No apologies or nothing, just just walked in and said “oh you have a hole in your liner”.
I went through everything with them the hole in the liner, the clamp that wasn’t really clamped on, etc. I told them that I had paid for a good install and that they should having to piece something together. They told me that they were sent with a couple pieces of pipe to see if it is “salvageable”. Not what I was waning to hear, but whatever. I went upstairs and went back to work.
They worked for a couple hours and called me down. They had added a block off plate and swapped out the insulation. Overall it looks better, at least to my untrained eye.
Honestly the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth and I probably won’t do business with them again. As long as it is safe is all that matters.
They guys showed up today and they were the same guys that did the half assed install on Friday. No apologies or nothing, just just walked in and said “oh you have a hole in your liner”.
I went through everything with them the hole in the liner, the clamp that wasn’t really clamped on, etc. I told them that I had paid for a good install and that they should having to piece something together. They told me that they were sent with a couple pieces of pipe to see if it is “salvageable”. Not what I was waning to hear, but whatever. I went upstairs and went back to work.
They worked for a couple hours and called me down. They had added a block off plate and swapped out the insulation. Overall it looks better, at least to my untrained eye.
Honestly the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth and I probably won’t do business with them again. As long as it is safe is all that matters.
To be honest I don't have anything to compare it to. The stove seems to work ok. Where the reversable collar meets I can sometimes see fire through the gasket because while the stove is straight to the hearth, it isn't straight to the pipe and the gasket is compressed more on one side than the other. So I know that air is getting in there. Also I will need to pick up some stove cement or something because whatever they sealed up there the stovepipe meets the collar with just dried and cracked off.
Overall the installers were bad and I wouldn't have them out again. My favorite line from them was "These modern stoves aren't meant to be air tight". My mother in law against my recommendation went and bought a pellet stove from the same place. I'll have to check the install once it is done.
ETA: Also I wish I went with a different stove. This one is way too small for my house. The wife got her pretty stove, now when we replace this I'll get my workhorse stove.
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Actually, that is correct. Modern stoves always allow a little air in, in order to reduce the chance of smoldering the fire.
Correct, but that would be through the air control not through gaps in the stovepipe correct? Gaps in the stovepipe would allow for more creosote production.
Yes, and also through the secondary air intakes. Additionally, some stoves have a small boost air intake port.
The stovepipe is under vacuum from the draft. Gaps in the stovepipe will allow cooler room air to seep in. But if the flue temp is high enough so that it exits the chimney cap at >250ºF then a little (like less than 1/16") gap at the flue collar may not be of great consequence. Stove cement is typically used to fill the gap at the flue collar and just as typically, it flakes off because this area expands and contracts with the heating and cooling of the stove.
How large is the gap of concern?
The stovepipe is under vacuum from the draft. Gaps in the stovepipe will allow cooler room air to seep in. But if the flue temp is high enough so that it exits the chimney cap at >250ºF then a little (like less than 1/16") gap at the flue collar may not be of great consequence. Stove cement is typically used to fill the gap at the flue collar and just as typically, it flakes off because this area expands and contracts with the heating and cooling of the stove.
How large is the gap of concern?
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
If the gap is large enough, a (flat) gasket may work better (or at least longer) than stove cement.
Regarding sizing: how large is the space you are trying to heat?
(And, regarding heat output: is your wood dry enough? How did you determine that?)
Regarding sizing: how large is the space you are trying to heat?
(And, regarding heat output: is your wood dry enough? How did you determine that?)
Right now it is just some smaller gaps that I'll put a fresh coat of stove cement on and it will flake off by the end of the season. The other gap is seeing flames through the gasket where the flue collar is. The gasket is more compressed on the left side and barely compressed at all on the right(this is where I can see the flames). I'm not sure what if anything can be done with it, but I'm sure that it isn't going to ruin my season.
At first the gap was larger (see photos in the beginning of the thread) but I think I'll be able to get away with just doing some stove cement a couple times a year.
My house is 3400 sqft and I'd love to heat all of it. haha. This does a decent job of heating the 1st floor if I close off a room that has vaulted ceilings.
Wood this year is good to go. At the beginning of last year was garbage that I purchased that is still around 25% a year later(this will sit until next year).
I have about a years worth of stuff that is reading 17-18% on a fresh split.
Stove cement will constantly fall out. I'd try wrapping the crimp with high-temp flat gasket for a long-term fix.
The little Intrepid is an area heater. It's not going to heat much more than 1000 sq ft.
The little Intrepid is an area heater. It's not going to heat much more than 1000 sq ft.
I couldn't agree more. I cant ask for more heat out of this stove. For what it is I think it does a decent job. It is just the wrong stove for my house. I'm sure that it saved me a couple hundred gallons of oil last year so I can't complain about that.
I'll look in to the flat gasket. In the next couple weeks I plan to go through the stove to make sure it is good to go come October or so.
