Ban gas stoves

[old greybeard]

Can’t believe this is even being considered. No details I’ve seen yet, cook stoves? Heat? Seen another article today claiming they emit pollutants even when not turned on!! No details of course, pilot?
Woodstoves will be next. So happy big brother is taking care of us.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/09/business/gas-stove-ban-federal-agency/index.html

 

[MJSullivan56]

Can’t believe this is even being considered. No details I’ve seen yet, cook stoves? Heat? Seen another article today claiming they emit pollutants even when not turned on!! No details of course, pilot?
Woodstoves will be next. So happy big brother is taking care of us.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/09/business/gas-stove-ban-federal-agency/index.html

Seems they are trying to protect/extend corporate use of (post peak) gas at the expense of individual use of an increasingly limited resource. Given that today’s USA could be easily renamed at “The Corporate States of America” this makes sense. Expect other corporate (in partnership with their beholden government rubber-stampers) “land grabs” as other commons (such as water, bio-diversity, and air) become resource-constrained.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I figured this was a big push for electrification that the grid can’t handle.

I heard 2 transformers blow from inside my house last year. There’s no way that mass conversation to electric stoves and heating will go well, much less vehicles.

NY just passed a bill with no new gas hookups after 2 years, no more current home heaters installed after 2028 or 2030? I don’t see that working out too well.

 

[Vg3200p]

Heard about this proposed gas stove ban on the radio today. My theory is that the gov wants all electric so they have more control over the infrastructure and then can freeze or starve out people they don't like or just shutdown power to more conservative towns. Wouldn't be surprised if they call for our woodstove soon to

 

[gzecc]

Studies go back 20 yrs about childhood asthma more prevalent in homes with gas stoves. My brother and I slept off the kitchen (gas stove) my brother had asthma. If its a medical issue it should be quantifiable.

 

[EbS-P]

The data to back it up is solid. Gas ranges and ovens are the single largest source of indoor air pollution. Kids are spend a lot more time inside than a generation or two ago. What don’t have the numbers but the fraction of gas used for cooking is probably a tiny fraction of what is used for heat and hot water.

Safer options exist. Induction cooktops are great. All I remember about gas ranges were the burn kitchen towels my grandmother had. And smelling smoke and tossing one in the sink occasionally. The family gladly replaced it with an electric range/oven in her later years. She was happy with the change.

 

[ABMax24]

So ventless gas heating appliances are okay in the US but they want to ban gas stoves?

I don't have a way of measuring NOx, but in my home the increase in PM is statistically insignificant from operating a gas burner. The act of cooking itself is a different matter, anything fried, seared, caramelized or browned creates a measurable amount of PM.

If I could find a cost effective NOx measuring device it would be cool to try and see what quantity of NOx I actually have in my house.

 

[peakbagger]

Buildings are a lot tighter. Build to a modern standard with blower door testing to verify and there are not enough air changes. Dedicated fresh air ventilation is not yet required in many jurisdictions and most of the systems installed require frequent maintenance or they cease to work. Unless someone has a large crop of plants in the house its going to have poor air quality even without unvented gas appliances. BTW, this applies to both natural gas and propane appliances, they both put out Carbon Monoxide (CO), Nitrogen Dioxide, NO2 PM 2.5 and submicron particles. In many cases they have or had standing pilots so its 24/7 pollution.

It is like lead paint, asbestos and mercury. Lead paint was great stuff, it was durable with great coverage and easy to clean. Asbestos was the wonder fiber, used in floor tiles, gasketing, and heat shields. Thermostats and occasionally appliances has mercury in them and many kids myself included couldnt resist playing with mercury. All three obviously had a big down side, mercury and lead both are accumulative nerve toxins and asbestos is a major source of lung cancer. Most people didnt know the risk and wouldnt have taken it if they had known. These were also there for the long term, the original owner may have long since sold but the problem remained for unsuspecting homeowners. Sad to say, growing kids are like sponges and they dont have say in whether or not take the voluntary risk.

The government is not banning existing gas stoves, they are just proposing phasing them out. The other aspect is that most new electric stoves are induction stoves, yes they still use electricity, but they use much less of it and has the similar gas burner fast heat response that calrod type electric stoves cannot match. I bought a counter top type unit two years ago and it rare I ever use the conventional burners unless I need a couple of them at the same time. Most bakers acknowledge that electric convection ovens are superior to gas ovens and many high end ranges are now induction cook top with a convection oven.

I do agree this does put load on the grid and just as importantly to some folks it means that when the power is down the ability to cook. I generate all my power plus charge my hybrid from solar and havent bought electricity for at least 10 years so my electric range is not a total roadblock to a future renewable power system. I happen to live in a part of the grid where all of the power is renewable 24/7. Due to grid limitations all the power cannot be exported elsewhere so if our region does not use it, the plants have to be cranked down.

IMO, this is not a subversive effort to take away someone independence, its an acknowledgment of a controllable risk that can be mitigated by phasing out the source. Unfortunately this lines up with the whole political scenario in the country. I guess the antivaxers are either dead been proven wrong so they need to move on and take up another "windmill" to fight against.

 

[Dan Freeman]

Nothing but another way to control the masses any way you cut it or want to justify it. The country is going to hell in a handbag and we're talking about banning gas cook stoves.

 

[Vg3200p]

Amen @Dan Freeman . Any thing the gov. Does is for money or control. They couldn't give 2 poops about our health as long as we generate enough taxes for them and blindly follow like good little sheeple. The main reason I heat with wood is to not rely on the infrastructure (gov.) To keep my family from freezing. If they make electric stoves tge only option they then have control of when you can cook or not.

 

[Dan Freeman]

Not to mention all the electric cook stoves that will need electricity. We don't have the electricity to run what we need to now, and if you think windmills and solar panels are going to supply the growing need for electricity any time soon, you have swallowed the government's propagandist BS. Hell, most of the "clean" electric alternatives are being charged by fossil fuels now, and that isn't going to change soon. We just don't have that technology yet. Some day we probably will, but talking about putting the cart before the horse...

 

[EbS-P]

So ventless gas heating appliances are okay in the US but they want to ban gas stoves?

I don't have a way of measuring NOx, but in my home the increase in PM is statistically insignificant from operating a gas burner. The act of cooking itself is a different matter, anything fried, seared, caramelized or browned creates a measurable amount of PM.

If I could find a cost effective NOx measuring device it would be cool to try and see what quantity of NOx I actually have in my house.

I think all ventless will be next. There are better options.

 

[weee123]

You could hookup a solar system and have battery storage and be completely unreliant on the grid. Even with gas they can shut you off if they really wanted to do so. With gas you’re still hooked to the grid unless you have propane backup.

 

[peakbagger]

Looks to me like we have a bit of an "echo chamber" going on between a few members

 

[EbS-P]

Amen @Dan Freeman . Any thing the gov. Does is for money or control. They couldn't give 2 poops about our health as long as we generate enough taxes for them and blindly follow like good little sheeple. The main reason I heat with wood is to not rely on the infrastructure (gov.) To keep my family from freezing. If they make electric stoves tge only option they then have control of when you can cook or not.

Do you care about your and your families health?

I have a many ways to feed my family for a week without electricity. Usually have 10 gallons of propane I hand for the grill. Couple cords of firewood too.

 

[Dan Freeman]

Do you care about your and your families health?

I have a many ways to feed my family for a week without electricity. Usually have 10 gallons of propane I hand for the grill. Couple cords of firewood too.

There are a lot more pressing things threatening my family's health. Gas stoves are not high up on the list and shouldn't be on the government's list with the dumpster fire this country has become. If gas stoves are that dangerous, educate the public, don't legislate the banning of gas stoves. Let the public make their own choices. That would make sense, which screams out to me that this is not about the health of anyone's family. It's about fossil fuels...again!

 

[Garbanzo62]

THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE CORRELATION BETWEEN GAS STOVE USE AND ASTHMA.

The study that is being referenced was commissioned by a Green group who's charter is to eliminate the use of all fossil fuels.

Also, if they ban Gas Stove, then the additional Electricity needs to come from someplace. That will mostly come from Coal and gas fired power plants. Given the loss in transmission of electricity, you end up burning more gas in the long run.

 

[EbS-P]

THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE CORRELATION BETWEEN GAS STOVE USE AND ASTHMA.

The study that is being referenced was commissioned by a Green group who's charter is to eliminate the use of all fossil fuels.

Also, if they ban Gas Stove, then the additional Electricity needs to come from someplace. That will mostly come from Coal and gas fired power plants. Given the loss in transmission of electricity, you end up burning more gas in the long run.

Data???

 

[peakbagger]

WOW IF WE PUT IT IN BOLD IT MEANS IT HAS TO BE TRUE
Contrary to the Bold approach, indoor air pollution from non vented gas and propane appliances have been known for quite a while. Setting up a direct causal link would be difficult as its frowned on to use kids as guinea pigs. The correlation is there and has been there for a long time.

 

[EbS-P]

There are a lot more pressing things threatening my family's health. Gas stoves are not high up on the list and shouldn't be on the government's list with the dumpster fire this country has become. If gas stoves are that dangerous, educate the public, don't legislate the banning of gas stoves. Let the public make their own choices. That would make sense, which screams out to me that this is not about the health of anyone's family. It's about fossil fuels...again!

I Agree it’s pretty low on the list of health impacts. If we wanted to make a huge health improvement we make vegetable free and pay for with exorbitant (1000s% taxes) on alcohol and tobacco. But this is easy. Ranges an ovens get regularly replaced. It’s low hanging fruit.

 

[Vg3200p]

Do you care about your and your families health?

I have a many ways to feed my family for a week without electricity. Usually have 10 gallons of propane I hand for the grill. Couple cords of firewood too.

Of course I care greatly about my family's health. I to have many ways to feed my family without a stove. If the gov. Outlawed everything that was bad for you there would be nothing left. Bye bye ac systems freon is bad for you. Bye bye cell phones they cause cancer. Modern life would not exist. I belive gov. Should stay out of damn near everything and let us live how we want. I don't have a gas stove but people should definitely be allowed to. Won't you be upset when they come for our woodstoves? Because they polute?

 

[Dan Freeman]

What a coincidence! Only yesterday...
New York Gov. Kathy Hochul proposes banning natural gas in all new buildings

New York Gov. Kathy Hochul proposes banning natural gas in all new buildings - Washington Examiner

Natural Gas New York Gov. Kathy Hochul proposes banning natural gas in all new buildings By Breanne Deppisch, Energy and Environment Reporter January 10, 2023 03:06 PM Twitter LinkedIn Facebook Email Print Natural Gas New York Gov. Kathy Hochul proposes banning natural gas in all new buildings...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[old greybeard]

This is about control, and power. They don’t care one iota about children.
If you don’t think our woodstoves, pellet stoves, are next you’re naive.
Poor children next door can’t be exposed to your flue.
They’re claiming kids are being poisoned by pilots, which aren’t even used on most new cook stoves. Also claiming its racist.
So glad I’m not young, the future IS a boot on our neck.

 

[bholler]

You guys do realize people have been saying they are coming for your woodstoves since the late 80s now right? It's not happening sorry. I also really doubt this bill will go through either so it's a bunch of fuss over nothing

 

[old greybeard]

You guys do realize people have been saying they are coming for your woodstoves since the late 80s now right? It's not happening sorry. I also really doubt this bill will go through either so it's a bunch of fuss over nothing

Because nothing had changed with woodstoves since the 80’s? Or 2020?
Meanwhile we look at Europe and California where gas heat and stoves are being banned, today. This all ties to ESG and the WEF. I can’t claim to understand why they are pushing for it. But health of children is a excuse, not the reason. Or they would not be so quiet about the child labor digging cobalt for batteries.
It s a control/power grab from the start.