Basement Installation Underway for Jotul f45, Old Version

enduring

Member
Feb 29, 2020
96
Central Iowa
Hello, I hope all are feeling well. This is a follow up to my other threads on the process of finding and understanding chimney and stove installation.
Husband wants to install a wood stove for emergency heating in our old smallish farm house.
Explain to me the anatomy of a wood burning stove chimney, and hear me complain a little.

I have the new chimney in place that includes the insulated flexible 316Ti liner, a double walled chimney up top with cap and all the needs to integrate into the roof. This all went through the old brick chimney. I will have double walled stove pipe installed to the thimble. The stove will sit on a piece of countertop material. I have 4 pallets of old scrape stone on the farm that I scavenged 5 years ago. The picture shows it sitting on a collection of scrapes, but I am not happy with this arrangement, and have found a large one piece of soapstone that I will have brought in to use instead if I choose. The other option is to just use the small scrape that is there, but have no margin of stone around the front or sides, for a "look". The floor is concrete and no stone is needed, really.

old chimney, looking up:
YOjUmk+eR5aHJADoqV1h1g.jpg
New:
GZWAqcUKRmCKlgVBQkKQXA.jpg 6pgnT1zEQNKdQ+v7VVT4XA.jpg nCYFl1OBSLCWmnXgAoeJtg.jpg bcmhZgfeRHabpo6qvzQfVg.jpg eDBQdL30SJC8KUzwgrhGPQ.jpg OaZAZ3yiShW5Szbnp8Pe2g.jpg

Pretty level in all 4 directions:
IS4YaFdsT96xQJFdnfTSZQ.jpg
I can't tell you how many people (well not that many people have seen it), tell me I could have just used the chimney as it was. Then I explain that it is best to have a liner, and insulated, for the whole enclosed system. I tell them the the old brick is leaky for CO, and that the old chimney was class B, which isn't appropriate for solid fuel.

I still don't totally know the best explanation to give to others who make comments about using the old chimney as it was. Could someone provide me with a quick couple sentences that I can give to others to explain?
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,567
central pa
Hello, I hope all are feeling well. This is a follow up to my other threads on the process of finding and understanding chimney and stove installation.
Husband wants to install a wood stove for emergency heating in our old smallish farm house.
Explain to me the anatomy of a wood burning stove chimney, and hear me complain a little.

I have the new chimney in place that includes the insulated flexible 316Ti liner, a double walled chimney up top with cap and all the needs to integrate into the roof. This all went through the old brick chimney. I will have double walled stove pipe installed to the thimble. The stove will sit on a piece of countertop material. I have 4 pallets of old scrape stone on the farm that I scavenged 5 years ago. The picture shows it sitting on a collection of scrapes, but I am not happy with this arrangement, and have found a large one piece of soapstone that I will have brought in to use instead if I choose. The other option is to just use the small scrape that is there, but have no margin of stone around the front or sides, for a "look". The floor is concrete and no stone is needed, really.

old chimney, looking up:
View attachment 258720
New:
View attachment 258721

View attachment 258722 View attachment 258723
View attachment 258724 View attachment 258725 View attachment 258726
Pretty level in all 4 directions:
View attachment 258727
I can't tell you how many people (well not that many people have seen it), tell me I could have just used the chimney as it was. Then I explain that it is best to have a liner, and insulated, for the whole enclosed system. I tell them the the old brick is leaky for CO, and that the old chimney was class B, which isn't appropriate for solid fuel.

I still don't totally know the best explanation to give to others who make comments about using the old chimney as it was. Could someone provide me with a quick couple sentences that I can give to others to explain?
The brick and standard mortar are not made to hold up to the heat or corrosive properties of flue gasses. Because of that the structure of both slowly breaks down over time which can allow the products of combustion to escape.

In addition old chimneys were never built with any clearance around them. We found over time that enough heat could be transferred through even good masonry to ignite adjacent combustibles. Because of this the insulation is nessecary.

It also sizes the chimney properly and makes it much easier to maintain
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,567
central pa
The install looks good btw
 
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enduring

Member
Feb 29, 2020
96
Central Iowa
Thank you so much @bholler You have been so helpful with this installation and it is comforting to hear you say that things are looking good to this point.

When the crew was here on Thursday, I asked all kinds of questions and made some extra requests that I thought had been settled, such as the double walled stove pipe. That wasn't on the original bid, but I thought we updated it with our last conversation. Anyway they will provide this, and will bill accordingly. DH has been on the roof checking install throughout the chimney placement and finish up. I don't have those pics now, but will have him text them to me.

I don't look forward hauling a 34x45" slab of soapstone into the house, lol. We did haul it home 5 years ago, so hopefully we can haul it into the house.
 

enduring

Member
Feb 29, 2020
96
Central Iowa
Here it is, all set in place. It is so nice looking, sitting there.

I used another piece of stone that I had that was smaller and one solid piece. I cut it down a bit, and sanded it to 60 grit with an orbital sander this morning before the chimney sweep got here to finish the installation. Its a soapstone remnant, and is very soft and can be cut with a circular saw and dry concrete type blade. It turned out pretty good, there are flaws in the stone, that's why I cut it down a bit. I think it is the perfect size. Now I would like to find another attractive stone to use as a coaster for my ash pail.

pvnQcNenQjG7K66PxOccgw.jpg MxAbxRy7TbaaSeWivKwcWg.jpg

That is water on the stone, that hasn't dried yet:
LZ2jso2ASQqYoLCC+88yXg.jpg
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,964
South Puget Sound, WA
What is the floor surface material, concrete? If so, there's no need for anything to protect it.
 

enduring

Member
Feb 29, 2020
96
Central Iowa
Yes its concrete, but I wanted something to lift it up off the surface for the rare event of water on the floor. The clay block will allow water to come into the basement if water runs down the foundation. The leaf guard type gutters really helps that not happen. With the old gutter system, if we missed a cleaning, we always had overflowing rain water running into the soil next to the foundation. Our house is high and dry otherwise, no shallow ground water to worry about. The stone also gives it a look of placement too, with its small surround.
 

moresnow

Minister of Fire
Jan 13, 2015
1,186
Iowa
Looks nice. Anything else keeping you from touching it off?
 
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enduring

Member
Feb 29, 2020
96
Central Iowa
Yes Moresnow, wood. DH has been busy getting machinery ready for planting. I don’t know where all this “wood” is, that we are supposed to have. Lastly, I don’t want to burn anything until I get a moisture meter. I have seen such a wide range in prices, and so many to choose from. I don’t know which to get.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,964
South Puget Sound, WA
Gather up some dry wood now and do a few fires. The first one should be small, just a kindling fire. Then heat it up and open the windows. As the paint bakes in the basement is going to get smoky. It will get better after a few fires where the stove gets up to 500º or higher. Do this before it gets too warm out.
 

enduring

Member
Feb 29, 2020
96
Central Iowa
Great, Begreen. Thats a good point to do before it gets too warm. Ill as DH to round up the wood. The breaking in fires are explained in the manual and I will follow closely. I will report back with the results.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,964
South Puget Sound, WA
It helps to open a window or door and put a fan in it exhausting the smoke out if necessary. This is temporary if the smoke gets overwhelming in a small, unventilated space.
 

enduring

Member
Feb 29, 2020
96
Central Iowa
Still haven’t fired it up, but putting the fire brick back inside. I want to know if this is correct in the brick layout. I took pics before I dismantled it for moving it into the basement. This is what it looked like. There was an extra brick laying on the floor when I bought it. I didn’t ask about it. Just thought I got an extra one for the future. But wondering if the black vent thing in the back of the box should have a brick in front of it. It does not look like it to me. The black vent thing has 2 small holes near the bottom. The brick would cover this. Also the brick wouldn’t be secured into place like the other ones.
4196E7C9-6AF3-4F79-9EBD-9D783BA38CE3.jpeg
 

kennyp2339

Minister of Fire
Feb 16, 2014
4,916
07462
The black vent thing has 2 small holes near the bottom
That's you secondary air intake manifold, suppose to be left bare so the air within the chamber can get preheated, this insures that when the air comes through the tubes that its super heated, and helps reburn the unburnt smoke particles that come off the main fire. As far as the extra brick, your guess is as good as mine, it might just be an extra.
 
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enduring

Member
Feb 29, 2020
96
Central Iowa
Thanks, KennyP. very helpful. Still no fire in the stove. Waiting for DH to be around to help with the break-in procedure. He's busy getting the fields ready to plant. I hope we get to it before its 90 degrees outside, lol.
 

moresnow

Minister of Fire
Jan 13, 2015
1,186
Iowa
Thanks, KennyP. very helpful. Still no fire in the stove. Waiting for DH to be around to help with the break-in procedure. He's busy getting the fields ready to plant. I hope we get to it before its 90 degrees outside, lol.
This week will be appropriate for burning here in Iowa. Long ways from 90 with lows of 20! Brrrr. Fire up!
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,964
South Puget Sound, WA
Is there a reason why you couldn't start the break-in without DH?
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,160
Southern IN
black vent thing has 2 small holes near the bottom. The brick would cover this. Also the brick wouldn’t be secured into place like the other ones.
View attachment 259151
Vent holes?? Anybody got a clue what these are? Why would a secondary air tube have them? :confused:
Fire it up, already; We've been waiting months for the culmination of this saga. ==c
You could wait for the DH, I guess..you've got a good sixty days before it ever gets warm there. ;)
 
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enduring

Member
Feb 29, 2020
96
Central Iowa
No news here! Still waiting for DH to get his crop in, but things are progressing quickly this year.

I'm still looking at the lovely Jotul. Brag about it from time to time. DH did cut some hickory in the timber several weeks ago before planting started, and some of it is home now. I know there is an old wood pile behind the barn, but he just told me, if I wanted to get some wood, go out to the woods and find a dead log :oops::rolleyes:;lol

I'll give the wood search some thought today, and maybe start my breaking in fires today or tomorrow, when he is around in the evening. I need the emotional and technical support, lol.
 

moresnow

Minister of Fire
Jan 13, 2015
1,186
Iowa
If you are planning a adventure into the woods. Do it soon. The undergrowth at my place far north of you is already getting significant.
We are completely planted here. Odd how quickly it went.
May be worth investigating the wood pile behind the barn. Maybe restack it out where it gets full sun and wind for next season. Otherwise most piles out back get little drying exposure in my experience.
Good luck finishing up your planting . If nothing else this spring the planting has gone nicely!
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,964
South Puget Sound, WA
It doesn't sound like DH is too much into this project. A dead log lying on the ground is likely to be damp and burn poorly. Modern stoves need dry firewood. Most folks have their hardwood for the following season stacked and drying at least a year ahead of time. If there is standing dead on the property that may be drier wood that would be better to cut, stack and split, now.
 

enduring

Member
Feb 29, 2020
96
Central Iowa
Moresnow. Yes planting has been quick, though DH is still trying to get the last bean field in. We had a very nice rain! It was so dry.

Begreen, yeah I know DH doesn't seem too much into it. I think its the planning that bogs him down. He gets into details with other types of projects, like grain marketing, thank goodness. He is very experienced with wood burning, but not with these new stoves. I am so glad I found you guys here so I could get up to speed on "his project" and make it right. He is real happy the way the stove looks and the installation...

... Which brings me to the point of this post, I have completed my first burn!!! It is the break in burn. I started the small fire with newspaper, corn cobs, and kindling. It was hard to start, but once started with damper full open, the stove got up to 270 and I shut the damper, or "shutter" (I think they call it that in the book) I had to keep is shut the whole time, and it did come down rather quickly to about 220 for the rest of the burn. It is now cooling to room temp. I didn't put the fire out, just letting it burn out with everything closed down. The instructions don't mention about how to stop a fire. So I am assuming just having it closed down and wait, that it will burn down and cool down. Then the second burn will be to 300deg f. So I am making progress. I had DH stand with me while I did this first burn, as I was somewhat afraid of doing something wrong.

I have a stove top gauge and a double walled stove pipe gauge in place. I am still cleaning the basement and have made a lot of headway. The stove looks great, don't you think?

dBvJTOnzQBSi9Ei8GnIjdQ.jpg yhQvrtGoSz+8Xngu7r1Hwg.jpg SDUSa8QmQb2H9uDtw2n0+g.jpg 61063553508__2E63AE8D-425A-4251-B82A-0374FD53D742.JPG o7dqogMnTBqS22hNx2UyOg.jpg sSVE412%TLCf26X6V4NbVA.jpg
 

enduring

Member
Feb 29, 2020
96
Central Iowa
I forgot to mention, that when driving home from a essential trip to Home Depot, I passed my neighbors place and they were home. they sell firewood by the piece, so for 12 pieces paid $10, a small price break lol. Anyway it was several year old wood. We have now several tree trunks to cut up this summer. DH said that there is old wood in the lumber bay that was never ricked correctly when it was milled, and that we could use that too. I don't know the species. Now I need to get a moisture meter.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,964
South Puget Sound, WA
Is Iowa getting the cold wave that is hitting east? If so this is the time to get the stove warm. Might be the last chance before fall.
 
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moresnow

Minister of Fire
Jan 13, 2015
1,186
Iowa
Is Iowa getting the cold wave that is hitting east? If so this is the time to get the stove warm. Might be the last chance before fall.
28F at 4.30AM. Brr!